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Cellular forums Home > Archive > Cellular GSM Technology > April 2006 > Fax over GSM?
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| BigBen 2006-04-04, 5:48 pm |
| Hi All,
Does a GSM interface for pots network need any special features in
order to be able to send/receive fax?
I mean, if a plain simple pots landline can suport send/receive fax,
ounce you have an analogue phone working connected to a GSM interface,
amaking and receiveing voice calls, is there anything else you need in
the GSM interface so you can connect a fax machine and start faxing??
TIA,
jbr
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-04, 5:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <4432abe8.3323750@news20.forteinc.com> on Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:28:09 GMT,
go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>Does a GSM interface for pots network need any special features in
>order to be able to send/receive fax?
>
>I mean, if a plain simple pots landline can suport send/receive fax,
>ounce you have an analogue phone working connected to a GSM interface,
>amaking and receiveing voice calls, is there anything else you need in
>the GSM interface so you can connect a fax machine and start faxing??
See the fax section of the FAQ below.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
| matt weber 2006-04-04, 11:48 pm |
| On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:34:27 GMT, John Navas
< spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>In <4432abe8.3323750@news20.forteinc.com> on Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:28:09 GMT,
>go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>
Don't think it can be done. The bind is the need for a fax modem at
the other end of the GSM network where it interfaces with the land
line. You need a way to present the fax 'data' at the GSM phone
digitally, and I haven't seen a fax machine with an external modem
yet. Fax modems are very different creatures from the various data
modems normally utilized.
Alternatively if there was both an RS232C connection on both ends it
could probably be made to work, but there really is no such animal.
The Fax modem, like all modems capable of operation above 600 bits per
second relies on phase shift keying. Unfortunately the Vocoder used in
digital mobile phones (D-AMPS/GSM/CDMA) does not preserve phase
relationships when compressing/uncompressing the analog data. As a
result, you cannot use a modem to transmit data over a digital mobile.
(IT will work over an AMPS connection however). GSM and CDMA do allow
the digitized voice payload to be replaced by a digital payload, and
that is how data is transmitted.[color=darkred]
>
>See the fax section of the FAQ below.
| |
| Donald Newcomb 2006-04-04, 11:48 pm |
|
"BigBen" <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:4432abe8.3323750@news20.forteinc.com...
> Does a GSM interface for pots network need any special features in
> order to be able to send/receive fax?
The GSM digial CODEC is designed for the human voice only; not FAX or data.
FAXes can be sent and received via GSM but only as a digital signal. The FAX
modem that connects to the POTS is at the GSM switch. The usual way this is
implemented is as a virtual FAX running in a PC connected to the phone via a
virtual modem. I suppose there are some special case solutions that provide
for an H.T.G. FAX machine with a digital interface to a GSM device, but I've
never laid hands on one myself. To do any of this your carrier has to
support the feature (not all do) and you'll probably have to pay an extra
fee.
--
Donald R. Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
| |
| John Henderson 2006-04-04, 11:48 pm |
| BigBen wrote:
> Does a GSM interface for pots network need any special
> features in order to be able to send/receive fax?
>
> I mean, if a plain simple pots landline can suport
> send/receive fax, ounce you have an analogue phone working
> connected to a GSM interface, amaking and receiveing voice
> calls, is there anything else you need in the GSM interface so
> you can connect a fax machine and start faxing??
As others have mentioned, a GSM voice call has over-the-air
(OTA) characteristics which make it unsuitable for handling
faxes.
But GSM does support fax calls, if your carrier implements the
GSM fax protocol. In this mode, your GSM device acts like a
fax modem. In turn, this assumes it's connected to a computer
running fax sending/receiving software. I'm not aware of any
provision to connect a fax machine to a GSM device.
A GSM carrier handling fax calls uses an IWF (Inter-Working
Function) to connect to the POTS networks.
There are some further issues with using fax over GSM.
In order to send faxes, your carrier might require you to
subscribe to that service, and may charge extra for that
subscription.
Receiving faxes adds an extra layer of complexity. Unlike a fax
to a landline fax machine or fax modem, the GSM case requires
that the type of call (voice, data, fax, etc) is made known to
the IWF _prior_ to the GSM circuit being established to the
receiving device (to establish the right sort of call). This is
done by allocating a device different numbers for voice, data
and fax calls.
So to receive a fax on a GSM device, you need to have a
dedicated fax number, and your carrier will no doubt charge for
this, irrespective of whether it's ever used.
Sending a fax does not require that special number (unless your
carrier insists on configuring things that way - mine doesn't).
This is because the type of circuit required for the outgoing
OTA leg is known to the system immediately the call is
instigated (by virtue of the command sequence from sending
computer to GSM device).
In my case, I quite happily send faxes from my PC via a GSM
handset. But I don't subscribe to a fax number for it, so it's
technically impossible for me to receive them.
John
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-05, 2:48 am |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In < 49gmcuFnvcfrU1@indiv
idual.net> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:55:40 +1000, John
Henderson < jhenRemoveThis@talk2
1.com> wrote:
>In my case, I quite happily send faxes from my PC via a GSM
>handset. But I don't subscribe to a fax number for it, so it's
>technically impossible for me to receive them.
In my case, I use Internet fax services, which are much less hassle, free for
receiving, and cheap for sending.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
|
| "John Navas" < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote in message
news:D6yYf.684283$qk4.7344@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <4432abe8.3323750@news20.forteinc.com> on Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:28:09
> GMT,
> go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>
>
> See the fax section of the FAQ below.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
Hi, a lot of useful info, but as almost always, some bias too. If one's
favourite operator does not support fax, is it an unbiased view that other
options are better? Could be, or not, everybody should understand the
options and see what is best for him/herself. One promoting HSPA should also
note that facsimile service does not exist in UMTS (standard, not a question
of lag of implementation).
By the way, the fax protocol is able to negotiate a lower modem speed "for
bad conditions". Does anybody know if it goes as low as the speed that would
work through the cellular voice channel?
One more question related to later comments: if I have a subscription to
send fax messages from my service provider, I always get at the same time a
permission to receive fax messages, and the corresponding fax number. Is it
true that some operators give a subscription for sending faxes but not for
receiving? I thought the standard does not support separate subscriptions
but of course the operator may not assign an incoming number which
effectively would be equal to subscription for incoming faxes.
| |
| John Henderson 2006-04-05, 5:48 am |
| Me wrote:
> One promoting HSPA should also note that facsimile service
> does not exist in UMTS (standard, not a question of lag of
> implementation).
UMTS real-time fax support is certainly incorporated into 3GPP
standard 27.007. Do you have any other information?
> One more question related to later comments: if I have a
> subscription to send fax messages from my service provider, I
> always get at the same time a permission to receive fax
> messages, and the corresponding fax number. Is it true that
> some operators give a subscription for sending faxes but not
> for receiving? I thought the standard does not support
> separate subscriptions but of course the operator may not
> assign an incoming number which effectively would be equal to
> subscription for incoming faxes.
I need no subscription or special arrangement with the carrier
to send faxes in Australia using a Telstra pre-paid SIM. It
works by default.
John
| |
|
| "John Henderson" < jhenRemoveThis@talk2
1.com> wrote in message
news:49h7c4FockshU1@
individual.net...
> Me wrote:
>
>
> UMTS real-time fax support is certainly incorporated into 3GPP
> standard 27.007. Do you have any other information?
Sorry that I was not accurate, UMTS has no facsimile teleservice, see e.g.
22.003 (note, GERAN supports all specified service, UMTS does not support
two, UTRAN does have "a better range of supported QoS parameters though):
Note 1: The facsimile services apply to GERAN only.
Note 2: The Voice Group Services, TS 91 and TS 92 apply to GERAN only.
This 27.007 does not seem to be too accurate, but it isn't supposed to cover
the actual services after all.
>
>
> I need no subscription or special arrangement with the carrier
> to send faxes in Australia using a Telstra pre-paid SIM. It
> works by default.
Interesting, technically there has to be this fax subscription bit set but
obviously it has been set by default for all subscribers. The subscription
bit should apply for incoming faxes too but if they don't give the fax
number, I guess that automatically disables that incoming fax service.
>
> John
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:03:01 GMT, John Navas
< spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>In my case, I use Internet fax services, which are much less hassle, free for
>receiving, and cheap for sending.
Sounds nice - but I haven't found a service, yet, that provides me a
fax incoming number in Portugal ... and for less than what I would pay
for a landline rental, of course.
I guess I don't need fax that much - .pdf files over the Net are just
fine.
Thanks,
jbr
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:13:01 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"
<DRNewcomb@NOT.attglobal.net> wrote:
>virtual modem. I suppose there are some special case solutions that provide
>for an H.T.G. FAX machine with a digital interface to a GSM device, but I've
>never laid hands on one myself. To do any of this your carrier has to
One of these http://www.telular.com/products/brSX5D_GSM_FAX.pdf would
do the trick ;-) (It's a pitty it's too expensive - around 650 euros
- for how often I fax.)
regards,
jbr
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <LDIYf.26183$_k2.455936@news2.nokia.com> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 05:32:27 GMT,
"Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>"John Navas" < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote in message
>news:D6yYf.684283$qk4.7344@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
[color=darkred]
>Hi, a lot of useful info, but as almost always, some bias too. If one's
>favourite operator does not support fax, is it an unbiased view that other
>options are better? Could be, or not, everybody should understand the
>options and see what is best for him/herself. One promoting HSPA should also
>note that facsimile service does not exist in UMTS (standard, not a question
>of lag of implementation).
There's no such bias in the FAQ, which simply states facts with regard to
Cingular, not any other carrier: Nowhere does it say "better" -- it simply
tells how to send faxes with Cingular.
>By the way, the fax protocol is able to negotiate a lower modem speed "for
>bad conditions". Does anybody know if it goes as low as the speed that would
>work through the cellular voice channel?
It won't. There is also the problem of no good way to use the "cellular voice
channel" from a fax machine, since there is no analog phone connector, and an
acoustic couple probably wouldn't be practical.
>One more question related to later comments: if I have a subscription to
>send fax messages from my service provider, I always get at the same time a
>permission to receive fax messages, and the corresponding fax number. Is it
>true that some operators give a subscription for sending faxes but not for
>receiving?
Possible, but I've never heard of that.
>I thought the standard does not support separate subscriptions
>but of course the operator may not assign an incoming number which
>effectively would be equal to subscription for incoming faxes.
Correct.
Receiving faxes is much harder than sending them, since most Internet fax
services email incoming faxes in formats that most cellular phones can't
display. It's possible to view them on an email website with WAP or an HTTP
browser, but that's very painful on a small screen.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <phMYf.26250$_k2.456671@news2.nokia.com> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:41:41 GMT,
"Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>"John Henderson" < jhenRemoveThis@talk2
1.com> wrote in message
> news:49h7c4FockshU1@
individual.net...
[color=darkred]
>Sorry that I was not accurate, UMTS has no facsimile teleservice, see e.g.
>22.003 (note, GERAN supports all specified service, UMTS does not support
>two, UTRAN does have "a better range of supported QoS parameters though):
>Note 1: The facsimile services apply to GERAN only.
>Note 2: The Voice Group Services, TS 91 and TS 92 apply to GERAN only.
>This 27.007 does not seem to be too accurate, but it isn't supposed to cover
>the actual services after all.
For facsimile in UMTS, see 3G TS 22.100 Section 6.2
<http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V310.../A22100-370.pdf> and 3G TR
22.945 Study on provisioning of fax in GSM and UMTS
<http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V310.../A22945-300.pdf>.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <4434ca59.12368156@news20.forteinc.com> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:48:57 GMT,
go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:13:01 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"
><DRNewcomb@NOT.attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>One of these http://www.telular.com/products/brSX5D_GSM_FAX.pdf would
>do the trick ;-) (It's a pitty it's too expensive - around 650 euros
>- for how often I fax.)
The analog fax is "Subject to network availability"; i.e., it probably won't
work on Cingular.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
|
| "John Navas" < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote in message
news:TEQYf.689235$qk4.257742@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <phMYf.26250$_k2.456671@news2.nokia.com> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:41:41
> GMT,
> "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> For facsimile in UMTS, see 3G TS 22.100 Section 6.2
> <http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V310.../A22100-370.pdf> and
> 3G TR
> 22.945 Study on provisioning of fax in GSM and UMTS
> <http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V310.../A22945-300.pdf>.
>
For those who don't want to spend time reading these references, the latter
is a study on facsimile service and concludes that "facsimile TELESERVICE"
is not useful, not needed for UMTS, does not actually work well because of
errors etc. Those who have been using fax teleservice over GSM, must agree
;-)
The other one explains two options to handle facsimile messaging without the
supported teleservice.
John, is Cingular supporting one of the "store and forward" or "end to end"?
Are these recognised supporting legally binding signatures like in the case
of a standard fax message?
*****
6.2 Facsimile service (not required for Release '99)
The UMTS standards are not required to support fax services.
However, it should be noted that a fax service can be provided based on
external servers without any impact and
requirement on UMTS infrastructure as described in 3GPP TR 22.945 [11].
According to 3GPP TR 22.945 [11] two
possibilities to provide a fax service as described briefly below may be
provided. The operator may then select either
none, one or both services depending on the market needs. The fax service
shall inter-work with existing fax
technology in the PSTN/ISDN.
6.2.1 Store-and-Forward
A UMTS store-and-forward fax service uses a file or message transfer program
to transfer text or images from a mobile
terminal to a store and forward unit for subsequent delivery to the
facsimile machine in the PSTN/ISDN. The user (or
the user's PC) may receive notification of successful delivery of the fax.
Fax messages from PSTN/ISDN to mobile
terminals are stored in a store-and-forward unit. The user retrieves the fax
message with a file or message transfer
program from the store-and-forward unit. The mobile terminal may be notified
that a fax message is available.
6.2.2 End-to-End
A UMTS fax service uses an end-to-end fax session between a PSTN/ISDN fax
machine and a mobile terminal. This
service works end-to-end such that a sender on the PSTN is aware of whether
or not the fax has succeeded, and such
that a mobile sender is aware of whether or not the fax has succeeded. From
the user perspective the end-to-end fax
service has the same look and feel as a T.30 based fax service although the
PLMN internal transmission is not
according to T.30. The end-to-end service may work with ordinary T.30 based
fax machines at the mobile end using a
mobile fax adapter [7][8] with a modem that terminates the analogue 2-wire
connection from the fax machine. The
conversion between the PLMN internal protocol and the T.30 protocol towards
the facsimile machine is performed in a
separate server and in a mobile fax adapter towards the T.30 based fax
machine at the mobile end.
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-05, 5:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <EJUYf.25879$Nb2.472146@news1.nokia.com> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:17:56 GMT,
"Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>"John Navas" < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote in message
>news:TEQYf.689235$qk4.257742@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>For those who don't want to spend time reading these references, the latter
>is a study on facsimile service and concludes that "facsimile TELESERVICE"
>is not useful, not needed for UMTS, does not actually work well because of
>errors etc. Those who have been using fax teleservice over GSM, must agree
>;-)
It goes on to say:
The aim of this report is to show that alternative solutions exist.
Given that most of the problems experienced today can be traced to
the termination of the T.30 in the mobile station, the alternative
solutions described in this report, which have initially been
developed for usage in the Internet, will all be based on terminating
the T.30 protocol in the network and using some alternative
transmission method to and from the mobile user.
That's essentially what I've written in the FAQ.
>The other one explains two options to handle facsimile messaging without the
>supported teleservice.
>
>John, is Cingular supporting one of the "store and forward" or "end to end"?
Not that I know of, but there's nothing stopping anyone from using a
third-party service, as described in the FAQ (below).
>Are these recognised supporting legally binding signatures like in the case
>of a standard fax message?
I suggest you consult a qualified attorney.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-05, 11:48 pm |
| On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:43:24 GMT, John Navas
< spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>The analog fax is "Subject to network availability"; i.e., it probably won't
>work on Cingular.
I'm not on Cingular - I'm on Optimus (PT).
Actualy, just droped by one of their shops today, and they've started
selling converters, adapters, gizmos, whatever you wish to call them,
to allow their clients plug their existing analogo fax machines in
this gizmo, and start faxing. I'll tell more ounce I finally get my
hands on the product.
This particular service, is aimed at replacing the landline phone, for
which clients have to pay around 15 euros, without right to make one
single call free. This GSM based service - called Optimus Home - has a
minimum consumption, which you get to use entirelly on calls (at the
same per minute price for landlines (or other Home clients) at the
same price, regardless of distance, day, or hour.
C ya,
jbr
| |
|
| "BigBen" <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:44346bd5.2353187@news20.forteinc.com...
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:43:24 GMT, John Navas
> < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not on Cingular - I'm on Optimus (PT).
>
> Actualy, just droped by one of their shops today, and they've started
> selling converters, adapters, gizmos, whatever you wish to call them,
> to allow their clients plug their existing analogo fax machines in
> this gizmo, and start faxing. I'll tell more ounce I finally get my
> hands on the product.
>
> This particular service, is aimed at replacing the landline phone, for
> which clients have to pay around 15 euros, without right to make one
> single call free. This GSM based service - called Optimus Home - has a
> minimum consumption, which you get to use entirelly on calls (at the
> same per minute price for landlines (or other Home clients) at the
> same price, regardless of distance, day, or hour.
>
> C ya,
> jbr
>
Hi, can you explain why it is important for you to use an ordinary fax
machine? Like John said, there are other options and I agree that those are
often more convenient for the user. No expensive devices are need when
scanning documents and sending by email but I understand this is not an
option for you. I know there are users who need an authentic fax service,
perhaps you can explain why it is important for you.
A pointer to those devices that allow a standard fax plugged but use GSM
service would be nice. Those must have a digital interface to the GSM phone
(modem) and I guess then are able to receive fax messages too (where one
would need a fax phone number)?
If only receiving fax messages was important, then a device like a Nokia
communicator should be handy.
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-07, 5:48 pm |
| On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 05:21:50 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>Hi, can you explain why it is important for you to use an ordinary fax
>machine? Like John said, there are other options and I agree that those are
I have not found a service that provides me with an incoming "fax"
number ... in Portugal, where I live. My friends are not interested
in faxing me to another country.
>If only receiving fax messages was important, then a device like a Nokia
>communicator should be handy.
Rightly so. That should cost just about the same a GSM interface for
an analog fax machine - I'm not sure which of the 2 I dislike most
Here http://www.telular.com/products/brSX5D_GSM_FAX.pdf is an example
of something that would allow you to connect an analog fax machine to
an RJ11 interface port, and send/receive faxes.
regards,
jbr
| |
|
| "BigBen" <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:4436bc55.374687@news20.forteinc.com...
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 05:21:50 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have not found a service that provides me with an incoming "fax"
> number ... in Portugal, where I live. My friends are not interested
> in faxing me to another country.
My cell operator supports "fax answering service". When somebody attempts to
send me a fax message and I do not have my PC connected to my phone (not
equipped to receive a fax), the answering service receives and stores the
message which I can then "download" with my GSM fax or to any fixed line
fax. Perhaps you're operator does not provide this service or perhaps other
issues make it not an option for you.
>
>
> Rightly so. That should cost just about the same a GSM interface for
> an analog fax machine - I'm not sure which of the 2 I dislike most
If you only did use this device for receiving fax messages, any second hand,
older than the last generation communicator would be almost no cost at all.
>
> Here http://www.telular.com/products/brSX5D_GSM_FAX.pdf is an example
> of something that would allow you to connect an analog fax machine to
> an RJ11 interface port, and send/receive faxes.
This is an interesting device. However, it is not obvious to me if this
really works for you (the way I understood you expected it to work). The
manual did not help a lot but before you decide to go this way, I'd suggest
you to check if this really works without a fax subscription, both ways.
OK if you only want to send fax messages from an analog fax device and fax
sending was included on your subscription by default, then sending should be
fine.
In order to receive fax messages I'm afraid this machine equally needs an
incoming fax number. The manual is not clear but to me it looks obvious that
this device operates like "a store and forward" device between the GSM
system and your analog fax (perhaps not store and forward in the sense that
it may not store the whole message before starting to pass it forward, in
that case the device would appear like "an almost real time converter
between the analog fax and GSM").
I come to this converter or "store and forward" conclusion from the facts
that:
- the manual tells that you have to have a fax subscription (does not tell
if it really is needed both ways but it looks obvious).
- the device also works as "a converter" between an analog modem and GSM
digital modem, you can connect an analog modem to this device but it then
transfers this data in GSM digital modem format over the GSM system. This is
described in more detail in the manual, like:
manual page 29: Air interface data rates: when using an analog modem for
data, different data rates over the air are possible depending on your
carrier. The manual then describes the modulation formats supported "between
the carrier and the SX5".
- as speculated previously, if the fax machine was really using the GSM
voice connection, it would at least need to be able to autobaud down to some
very low, perhaps 300 bit/s , data rate which I think John Navas considered
not possible (I have no personal experience but it should be obvious anyway
that the real "GSM phone line transfer of fax modem signals is not a good
idea even if it worked at extremely low bit rates.
You did not mention the Portuguese operator of interest, www.gsmworld.com
shows three operators of which two should have G3 fax service, I would
expect this meaning "two way fax", but you may need a specific subscription
to have both ways supported. The third operator probably also supports fax
but no services at all were listed at gsmworld.
>
> regards,
> jbr
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-08, 11:48 pm |
| On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:08:26 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>My cell operator supports "fax answering service". When somebody attempts to
>send me a fax message and I do not have my PC connected to my phone (not
>equipped to receive a fax), the answering service receives and stores the
>message which I can then "download" with my GSM fax or to any fixed line
>fax.
1) I no longer have a landline - I thought it was a complete reap off,
and gave up on it.
2) How do you download with your GSM fax?
>If you only did use this device for receiving fax messages, any second hand,
>older than the last generation communicator would be almost no cost at all.
Good point - I'll lokk around Thanks!
My present GSM/landline like operator service, competing with the
incumbent landline operator, is schedule to release this month a fax
interface, allowing it's clients to send/receive faxes
>You did not mention the Portuguese operator of interest, www.gsmworld.com
Optimus is the operator. Optimus Home, is the service designed to
work as an alternative to your landline - http://home.optimus.pt/home/
(I'm sorry it doesn't seem to have a English version)
regards,
jbr
| |
| John Navas 2006-04-08, 11:48 pm |
| [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <44379d88.1203468@news20.forteinc.com> on Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:36:03 GMT,
go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:08:26 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>
[color=darkred]
>2) How do you download with your GSM fax?
Usually it's by dialing in, and then entering a pin code, much like getting
voicemail.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
|
| "John Navas" < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote in message
news:l8RZf.706741$qk4.597107@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <44379d88.1203468@news20.forteinc.com> on Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:36:03
> GMT,
> go.spam@somewhere.else (BigBen) wrote:
>
>
>
> Usually it's by dialing in, and then entering a pin code, much like
> getting
> voicemail.
Yes, the fax answering server would then send the fax to the number you've
defined previously, or to a temporary number which you can define each time
if you wish. You then have to have a fax machine ready to receive the fax
message, ether a land line fax (or your communicator) which probably is
always ready, or since you know that you're going to receive a fax, you can
set up your phone and your PC ready to receive the message. In order to
receive a fax message through GSM, you would need a specific incoming fax
phone number.
One could have the fax "downloaded" just like an ordinary voice message,
during the same call to the answering service but this would ask support for
alternating speech/fax calls and this is often not supported by phones,
neither by networks.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>
| |
|
| "BigBen" <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:44379d88.1203468@news20.forteinc.com...
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:08:26 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>
>
> 1) I no longer have a landline - I thought it was a complete reap off,
> and gave up on it.
In my case I do not receive fax messages often, then I can use the office
fixed line fax machine for downloading but this is not an option for
frequent use, or if there is no office fax to be used.
> 2) How do you download with your GSM fax?
Myself I do not use a communicator like device, then when I need to download
a fax message, I set up my laptop connected to my phone, and set it up ready
to receive the fax message. I then call the answering service and order the
fax message to be sent to my GSM fax number.
>
>
>
> Good point - I'll lokk around Thanks!
>
> My present GSM/landline like operator service, competing with the
> incumbent landline operator, is schedule to release this month a fax
> interface, allowing it's clients to send/receive faxes
I assume this is mostly useful for those who want/need to use their existing
analog fax machines, like for directly transmitting from paper copies, or
want to have an immediate paper printout.
>
>
>
> Optimus is the operator. Optimus Home, is the service designed to
> work as an alternative to your landline - http://home.optimus.pt/home/
> (I'm sorry it doesn't seem to have a English version)
Probably a language problem but I was not able to find any details about the
fax service like if the answering service supports fax messages too or
details about the support for incoming fax. Perhaps one would need to call
their customer service.
>
> regards,
> jbr
>
| |
| BigBen 2006-04-08, 11:48 pm |
| On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:46:25 GMT, "Me" <me@any.net> wrote:
>Probably a language problem but I was not able to find any details about the
>fax service like if the answering service supports fax messages too or
Customer support doesn't know anything about it; several shops from
this operator, tell me they're expecting the "converter" any day now.
Will keep you posted, assuming someone's interested in the subject.
From some replies and suggestions, however, I get the feeling some may
not have understood this yet. I no longer have a telephone landline!
GSM (and DCDMA2000) only!
Since I remember, landline users in PT have always had to pay a
subscription, that gives the priviliege to receive calls, only! If you
wish to make calls , you have to pay further, per call.
With Optimus Home, I have a minimum monthly expense, which is
inteirelly cenverted in minute calls I make. (And I pay nothing for
calls I receive , of course!)
C ya,
jbr
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