Cingular cell phone service - Cingular Customer Service (and the run around)

Author

Cingular Customer Service (and the run around)

nullah79@gmail.com

2006-03-10, 5:48 am

I have had Cingular since AT&T was merged or bought out by Cingular.
Was I wrong about AT&T? that they had bad customer service. Let me
give you a couple of examples

(1) I ordered a phone from Cingular and recieved the new and it was
supposed to be free and then i get a bill for $120.00 on the next bill.
I called Cingular, i was transfered three time and had to wait on hold
for about 30 to 40 minutes total. The person finally tells me that i
have to send the old phone. So, i said ok i sent the old phone in the
package that Cingular had provided and for the next three months I keep
getting billed for that phone and I kept calling and during this period
i must have spent 25 to 30 hours on the phone with Cingular. They had
to file a lost phone report, while they were investigating to track the
package they disconnected my phone service. I had spoken to at least
three managers and explained the situation to them and they had
promised that my service would not be disconnected and guess what my
service was disconnected. Back to the phone, it was never found so i
had to pay the $120.00 and on top of that i have three lines with
Cingular and they charged me a $75.00 reconnection fee ( $25.00 per
line) I called and talked to three or four different representative
GOD KNOWS where they were and had no clue about this whole situation.
I had to explaine this over and over and over to each representative i
spoke to. I filed a dispute with cingular and Guess what ((( Cingular
sent my account to a COLLECTION AGENCY yes thats right a collection
agency while i am disputing the charges. So, i went ahead and paid it.
I think CINGULAR is the worst company i have dealth with.

This is just one of the issues that i have had with cingular, i will
write more about my issues with cinguar as time permits. If anyone
needs to use the above issue or post it on their website feel free.
Spread the word and let people know what we are dealing with.

BruceR

2006-03-10, 5:48 am

Your story may be true but if it is you didn't handle the situation
well. When sending back a phone you should always use a trackable
service that shows WHO signed for it. When they claim it wasn't returned
and you show them a carrier delivery receipt with an employee's name on
it they shut up real fast. If you have no proof of delivery that's your
problem.

> I have had Cingular since AT&T was merged or bought out by Cingular.
> Was I wrong about AT&T? that they had bad customer service. Let me
> give you a couple of examples
>
> (1) I ordered a phone from Cingular and recieved the new and it was
> supposed to be free and then i get a bill for $120.00 on the next
> bill. I called Cingular, i was transfered three time and had to wait
> on hold for about 30 to 40 minutes total. The person finally tells
> me that i have to send the old phone. So, i said ok i sent the old
> phone in the package that Cingular had provided and for the next
> three months I keep getting billed for that phone and I kept calling
> and during this period i must have spent 25 to 30 hours on the phone
> with Cingular. They had to file a lost phone report, while they were
> investigating to track the package they disconnected my phone
> service. I had spoken to at least three managers and explained the
> situation to them and they had promised that my service would not be
> disconnected and guess what my service was disconnected. Back to the
> phone, it was never found so i had to pay the $120.00 and on top of
> that i have three lines with Cingular and they charged me a $75.00
> reconnection fee ( $25.00 per line) I called and talked to three or
> four different representative GOD KNOWS where they were and had no
> clue about this whole situation. I had to explaine this over and over
> and over to each representative i spoke to. I filed a dispute with
> cingular and Guess what ((( Cingular sent my account to a COLLECTION
> AGENCY yes thats right a collection agency while i am disputing the
> charges. So, i went ahead and paid it. I think CINGULAR is the worst
> company i have dealth with.
>
> This is just one of the issues that i have had with cingular, i will
> write more about my issues with cinguar as time permits. If anyone
> needs to use the above issue or post it on their website feel free.
> Spread the word and let people know what we are dealing with.

Marty

2006-03-10, 5:48 pm

Somewhere around 10 Mar 2006 00:25:25 -0800, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from
nullah79@gmail.com:

>I have had Cingular since AT&T was merged or bought out by Cingular.
>Was I wrong about AT&T? that they had bad customer service. Let me
>give you a couple of examples
>
>(1) I ordered a phone from Cingular and recieved the new and it was
>supposed to be free and then i get a bill for $120.00 on the next bill.
> I called Cingular, i was transfered three time and had to wait on hold
>for about 30 to 40 minutes total. The person finally tells me that i
>have to send the old phone. So, i said ok i sent the old phone in the
>package that Cingular had provided and for the next three months I keep
>getting billed for that phone and I kept calling and during this period
>i must have spent 25 to 30 hours on the phone with Cingular. They had
>to file a lost phone report, while they were investigating to track the
>package they disconnected my phone service. I had spoken to at least
>three managers and explained the situation to them and they had
>promised that my service would not be disconnected and guess what my
>service was disconnected. Back to the phone, it was never found so i
>had to pay the $120.00 and on top of that i have three lines with
>Cingular and they charged me a $75.00 reconnection fee ( $25.00 per
>line) I called and talked to three or four different representative
>GOD KNOWS where they were and had no clue about this whole situation.
>I had to explaine this over and over and over to each representative i
>spoke to. I filed a dispute with cingular and Guess what ((( Cingular
>sent my account to a COLLECTION AGENCY yes thats right a collection
>agency while i am disputing the charges. So, i went ahead and paid it.
> I think CINGULAR is the worst company i have dealth with.
>
>This is just one of the issues that i have had with cingular, i will
>write more about my issues with cinguar as time permits. If anyone
>needs to use the above issue or post it on their website feel free.
>Spread the word and let people know what we are dealing with.

Sounds to me like you don't pay attention very well, which probably explains
your problems.

I spent a lot of time researching phones before buying my last ones from
Cingular. The terms have always been spelled out on the website, where some
phones have rebates and some have online discounts, some may require the old
phone be sent in, etc.

Rebates are common, and they always work the same. You pay the money in
advance, and later get the rebate. Sounds like you broke that rule, and
thought you didn't need to pay for the phone. Never works that way.

Common sense would dictate that you need to take care in returning the old
phone, and follow directions to the letter. Obviously, if they are simply
going to take your word for it, people would not bother to send it, and
simply say they did. You should have some proof that you at least mailed
the thing.

Sounds like you probably didn't handle things well after this, either, and
you probably think getting irate is the solution to all problems. It isn't.
--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
No matter how hard you throw a dead fish in the water,
it still won't swim.

Pete M

2006-03-11, 5:48 pm

I suggest to file complaint with http://www.badbusinessbureau.com , also
read about other complaint about the Cingular (on search simply type
Cingular). I have seen some results. It is an excelent site.

<nullah79@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141979125.496002.312670@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I have had Cingular since AT&T was merged or bought out by Cingular.
> Was I wrong about AT&T? that they had bad customer service. Let me
> give you a couple of examples
>
> (1) I ordered a phone from Cingular and recieved the new and it was
> supposed to be free and then i get a bill for $120.00 on the next bill.
> I called Cingular, i was transfered three time and had to wait on hold
> for about 30 to 40 minutes total. The person finally tells me that i
> have to send the old phone. So, i said ok i sent the old phone in the
> package that Cingular had provided and for the next three months I keep
> getting billed for that phone and I kept calling and during this period
> i must have spent 25 to 30 hours on the phone with Cingular. They had
> to file a lost phone report, while they were investigating to track the
> package they disconnected my phone service. I had spoken to at least
> three managers and explained the situation to them and they had
> promised that my service would not be disconnected and guess what my
> service was disconnected. Back to the phone, it was never found so i
> had to pay the $120.00 and on top of that i have three lines with
> Cingular and they charged me a $75.00 reconnection fee ( $25.00 per
> line) I called and talked to three or four different representative
> GOD KNOWS where they were and had no clue about this whole situation.
> I had to explaine this over and over and over to each representative i
> spoke to. I filed a dispute with cingular and Guess what ((( Cingular
> sent my account to a COLLECTION AGENCY yes thats right a collection
> agency while i am disputing the charges. So, i went ahead and paid it.
> I think CINGULAR is the worst company i have dealth with.
>
> This is just one of the issues that i have had with cingular, i will
> write more about my issues with cinguar as time permits. If anyone
> needs to use the above issue or post it on their website feel free.
> Spread the word and let people know what we are dealing with.
>

jay.ullah@gmail.com

2006-03-12, 2:48 am

You shouldnt have to do all this research and check all the details
when you are buying a service. How many people actually read the
CONTRACT and then HOW OF THOSE UNDERSTAND their contracts, we the
consumer need to stop dealing with companies that trick us into buying
products. When you speak to them over the phone they tell you one
thing and when you look at the contract its a whole different story. I
have had enough of Cingular, I will give my business to someone that
has some respect for the consumer. What happened to common sense.
Today's consumer is just a (number) or (dollar sign) thats all it is to
the big business. The company's board members get richer and greedier
NOT by the day, but (by the minute.)

BruceR

2006-03-12, 2:48 am

Well, yeah, that's what business is all about - making money for the
shareholders who put their money at risk to build it. You shouldn't
have to check the details? Why not? Hire an attorney if you need help.
We already have one of the most highly regulated markets in the world
where bureaucrats dictate marketing practices and even font size and
colors. Do your homework BEFORE you buy and don't complain about what
you signed if you're too lazy to read it and understand it.

> You shouldnt have to do all this research and check all the details
> when you are buying a service. How many people actually read the
> CONTRACT and then HOW OF THOSE UNDERSTAND their contracts, we the
> consumer need to stop dealing with companies that trick us into buying
> products. When you speak to them over the phone they tell you one
> thing and when you look at the contract its a whole different story.
> I have had enough of Cingular, I will give my business to someone that
> has some respect for the consumer. What happened to common sense.
> Today's consumer is just a (number) or (dollar sign) thats all it is
> to the big business. The company's board members get richer and
> greedier NOT by the day, but (by the minute.)

jjtjr

2006-03-12, 5:48 pm

>Do your homework BEFORE you buy and don't complain about what
>you signed if you're too lazy to read it and understand it.

Hey, as someone who has bitched about Cingular for
years, AND re-sign up (best service in my area) AND
knowing the piss poor customer serv <heheheHAHAHA> ice
they have, I'll take them out of the picture.

Listen up, kidd. I got the time to teach ya, & I bet
you learn some, 2. Ready..? write this down..

<U can quote me>

"..never sign anything you do not read/understand.."

Only an IDIOT signs up for a 1-2 year hitch without
reading the fine print. Sheit, I don't sign a B/day
card without reading it 1st. Hope this helps..

No need to thank me..

JJT

Etan

2006-03-12, 5:48 pm

<nullah79@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141979125.496002.312670@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I filed a dispute with cingular and Guess what ((( Cingular
> sent my account to a COLLECTION AGENCY yes thats right a collection
> agency while i am disputing the charges. So, i went ahead and paid it.

File a small claims action for the amount you paid but didn't owe (include
all late fees and reconnection fees). They won't go to court to defend
their mistake. They will call you and agree to send you a check. Insist
that they refund the filing fee as well. And don't dismiss the case until
you have the check in your hand. If they don't contact you to settle, go to
court and receive your default judgement.

I went through something similar. The guy said "It isn't that I don't want
to refund you, it's just that I CAN'T.'
I replied that I understood, so I would simply file a small-claims action.
Next thing you know, his supervisor approved the refund.

ditinsta

2006-03-12, 5:48 pm

Usually a legal letter or threat of small claims action is all you need to
do in getting retribution from cell carriers as long as you've got a halfway
good reason in doing so. No multi million dollar company is going to fight a
petty claim over a few hundred bucks.

"Etan" <etan@etan.tv> wrote in message
news:44147218$0$3628
$6d36acad@fe3.nntpserver.com...

> I went through something similar. The guy said "It isn't that I don't
> want to refund you, it's just that I CAN'T.'
> I replied that I understood, so I would simply file a small-claims action.
> Next thing you know, his supervisor approved the refund.

1234

2006-03-12, 11:48 pm

>You shouldnt have to do all this research and check all the details
>when you are buying a service. How many people actually read the
>CONTRACT and then HOW OF THOSE UNDERSTAND their contracts, we the
>consumer need to stop dealing with companies that trick us into buying
>products. When you speak to them over the phone they tell you one
>thing and when you look at the contract its a whole different story. I
>have had enough of Cingular, I will give my business to someone that
>has some respect for the consumer. What happened to common sense.
>Today's consumer is just a (number) or (dollar sign) thats all it is to
>the big business. The company's board members get richer and greedier
>NOT by the day, but (by the minute.)

DUH ?

Did you expect anything less?

Read what ya sign..forget what you 'hear'..

ANY part of that U no understand..?

I'll agree, they pass it all off too quick on the
TV screen, and yes, the C/service of ANY company
blows mildew donkey, but NEVER sign what U no READ !!!

JJT

-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't go away MAD, here's a SASE for you to fill out telling
me how tasty my dust is, and an order blank for re-fills....

...ok....NOW you can go......
-------------------------------------------------------------

1234

2006-03-12, 11:48 pm

>Usually a legal letter or threat of small claims action is all you need to
>do in getting retribution from cell carriers as long as you've got a halfway
>good reason in doing so. No multi million dollar company is going to fight a
>petty claim over a few hundred bucks.

Flock, They won't even call ya on it.

AND..when you re-new ya plan, tell then you want
the newest phone FREE with the best plan/min/etc
YOU want (as long as it's within what they offer)

We up'ed again after 4 years, they gave us free
phones, $50 rebate money ea, 2 lame MP3 players,
and ANOTHER rebate of $50 EACH. All over the phone.

I remember buying a HP printer..I still have it..

It was $399. They gave me a $100 rebate, a $25 rebate,
2 free toner cart(s) and a real lame GPS device...

THEN..get this..they send me a 'rebate' for sending in
the UPC code off the box...$150. by the time I was done,
they paid ME to own it. I still use the thing 2day.

I spoke to a woman yesterday who had her pink Razr
phone out, dusty screen and all, and I asked her what
she did to get it. She said she paid $99 for the phone,
bought 3 of them <chuckle> and signed up 3 NEW accounts
(I'll guess, 1 basic and 2 added) for 2 years @ $50/month.

...I asked..for all 3..? She said no, each...

....and she bought the phones too... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
AHA

JJT

-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't go away MAD, here's a SASE for you to fill out telling
me how tasty my dust is, and an order blank for re-fills....

...ok....NOW you can go......
-------------------------------------------------------------

Jeremy

2006-03-13, 5:48 pm

"BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:IwOQf.15034$e1.6163@tornado.socal.rr.com...

> Do your homework BEFORE you buy and don't complain about what you signed
> if you're too lazy to read it and understand it.
>
>

That comment bespeaks contempt of the consumer.

The reason that there are so many laws regulating various lines of business
is because of their history of befuddling, cheating and lying to customers.
Fact is that crooks have long exploited consumers' lack of knowledge and
have hoodwinked them. Used car dealers are a good example. I understand
that there is currently a glut of "Katrina Cars" offered at lots all across
America--and that they have had their titles cleaned up by having been
registered subsequently in two states prior to being offered for sale in a
third state. Some states do not require that the cars' "junker" status be
listed on their titles.

So, how're ya' going to "do your homework" on something like that,
Einstein???

We wouldn't need all that regulation if companies were more honest . . .

Scott

2006-03-13, 11:48 pm

"Jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:RihRf.16012$wH5.2784@trnddc02...
> "BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:IwOQf.15034$e1.6163@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> That comment bespeaks contempt of the consumer.

No- actually it is the opposite. Expecting everything to be laid out for a
child to understand bespeaks contempt for the consumer- we are not all dumb
sheep and shouldn't be expected to have much tolerance for those who are too
lazy to do some homework.

>
> The reason that there are so many laws regulating various lines of
> business is because of their history of befuddling, cheating and lying to
> customers.

And none of that applies here- the laws are in place. That does not mean
that companies should have to hold every customer by the hand.

> Fact is that crooks have long exploited consumers' lack of knowledge and
> have hoodwinked them. Used car dealers are a good example. I understand
> that there is currently a glut of "Katrina Cars" offered at lots all
> across America--and that they have had their titles cleaned up by having
> been registered subsequently in two states prior to being offered for sale
> in a third state. Some states do not require that the cars' "junker"
> status be listed on their titles.
>
> So, how're ya' going to "do your homework" on something like that,
> Einstein???

Very easily- however, the lazy need not apply.

>
> We wouldn't need all that regulation if companies were more honest . . .
>
No- we wouldn't need all of that regulation if consumers were not stupid
sheep.

BruceR

2006-03-13, 11:48 pm

> "Jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:RihRf.16012$wH5.2784@trnddc02...
>
> No- actually it is the opposite. Expecting everything to be laid out
> for a child to understand bespeaks contempt for the consumer- we are
> not all dumb sheep and shouldn't be expected to have much tolerance
> for those who are too lazy to do some homework.
>
Well said. However, he is correct that I do have contempt for those
consumers who have plenty of time to whine AFTER the sale but no time to
learn about what they're buying or agreeing to BEFORE they sign. The
best prevention from becoming a victim is to read, read again and open
one's eyes. Assume everything is a scam until you're sure it's not.
Caveat Emptor!

Jeremy

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
news:w- idnY2Fko72iIvZ4p2dnA
@adelphia.com...
>
> No- actually it is the opposite. Expecting everything to be laid out for
> a child to understand bespeaks contempt for the consumer- we are not all
> dumb sheep and shouldn't be expected to have much tolerance for those who
> are too lazy to do some homework.
>

This has nothing to do with anyone being "lazy." The policies change so
often that even people in the wireless industry can't always keep up.

Maybe all YOU have to do is to keep abreast of the cellular plans, but most
of us have lives--and we have other things to do besides wondering what trap
we will fall into next.

Regulation is necessary--across virtually all lines of business--because
unscrupulous business people have used their superior capital, superior
knowledge and superior resources to exploit consumers. And, while
competition often serves to reduce such exploitation, it doesn't always
work. Try reading the numerous posts on this and every other wireless
newsgroup and you will easily see that many people have complained of
unethical business practices or outright trickery--and WE ARE NOT ALL
"LAZY!"

Ask the Better Business Bureau if all it takes is for consumers to stop
being "lazy," and just "do their homework," to make all incidents of
unethical business practices disappear . . .

You are clueless.

Jeremy

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

"BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:YHoRf.2$WK1.1@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>

> The best prevention from becoming a victim is to read, read again and
> open one's eyes. Assume everything is a scam until you're sure it's not.
> Caveat Emptor!

So you DO admit that consumers are often presented with scams? Tell me, how
does one "read, read again" when one calls one's carrier to make a change to
one's plan, or to add or drop a line, and then finds out that the "change"
was interpreted by the CSR as another two-year extension? WHEN was the
customer advised of this? WHEN did the CSR fax or email a new contract to
the customer to execute and return?

There are hundreds of similar stories out there--and all you do is to blame
the victim! You'd probably tell the woman that got raped that she had no
business going out of her home that day!

What kind of a world would it be if everyone thought like you?

bamp

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

BruceR

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

> "BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:YHoRf.2$WK1.1@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> So you DO admit that consumers are often presented with scams? Tell
> me, how does one "read, read again" when one calls one's carrier to
> make a change to one's plan, or to add or drop a line, and then finds
> out that the "change" was interpreted by the CSR as another two-year
> extension? WHEN was the customer advised of this? WHEN did the CSR
> fax or email a new contract to the customer to execute and return?
>
> There are hundreds of similar stories out there--and all you do is to
> blame the victim! You'd probably tell the woman that got raped that
> she had no business going out of her home that day!
>
> What kind of a world would it be if everyone thought like you?

I never claimed otherwise. Sure there's a lot of scams out there. All
the regulation in the world won't prevent them. I ALWAYS review any
changes made with a CSR and, if they want a new contract, yes, I ask
them to fax it to me and I ask them to note in the record that I've
asked them to do so.

I certainly would NOT blame a rape victim for "going out" as you
improperly surmise in your specious argument that attempts to equate
contract law with violent crime, but I do blame a consumer who doesn't
do his homework and at least reads, ask questions and understands what
they're signing. I practice what I preach and guess what? I've never
had a consumer contract problem that I couldn't settle over the phone -
in my favor.

The fact of the matter is that most people just "sign here" when told
to do so. Most don't even read their motgages or deeds when buying a
property. I do. And I've found errors or terms not previously disclosed
that I've had removed. Same with car leases. Most are so happy to get
the car they blindly sign anything. I read - I negotiate - I don't get
burned. I'm a busy guy too but I make the time to know what I'm getting
myself into. I'm not "better" than anybody else for doing that but you
won't find me whining on newsgroup about getting burned by "the man."

Marty

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

Somewhere around Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:08:08 GMT, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from "BruceR"
<br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com>:
>Well said. However, he is correct that I do have contempt for those
>consumers who have plenty of time to whine AFTER the sale but no time to
>learn about what they're buying or agreeing to BEFORE they sign. The
>best prevention from becoming a victim is to read, read again and open
>one's eyes. Assume everything is a scam until you're sure it's not.
>Caveat Emptor!
>
Right on! and the first person you should ask questions of is yourself;
like, if there's a rebate, ask yourself why don't they just reduce the price
instead of all that trouble for a rebate (answer, because lots of people
either forget to send it in, don't bother, or do it wrong). If they are
counting on people not to get the rebate, make sure you understand how to
make sure you get it if you need it. Or, if you don't, make sure you can
afford to buy it without getting the rebate, and consider the rebate to be a
gift if you get it.

If it's very cheap, ask yourself what is the catch. Is it really a free
lunch? Usually not. To get the free stuff, you usually have to put in a
lot of time waiting and watching for it.

Then the only thing to worry about is whether whatever you're buying is
worth it.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

Jeremy

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

"BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message news:OCFRf.292
>
> The fact of the matter is that most people just "sign here" when told to
> do so. Most don't even read their motgages or deeds when buying a
> property. I do. And I've found errors or terms not previously disclosed
> that I've had removed. Same with car leases. Most are so happy to get the
> car they blindly sign anything. I read - I negotiate - I don't get burned.
> I'm a busy guy too but I make the time to know what I'm getting myself
> into. I'm not "better" than anybody else for doing that but you won't find
> me whining on newsgroup about getting burned by "the man."
>

Try selling that argument to the Federal Trade Commission . . .

Your view is tilted in favor of the perpetrator. So, if you "do your
homework," you don't get burned, but if a consumer trusts the
representations made by the sales rep--especially one that works for a large
well-known company, one that presumably has some established level of
integrity--that consumer deserves whatever he/she gets.

Sorry, but history's lessons abound. All civilized societies have developed
levels of regulatory practices to protect the unsuspecting against being
exploited. That is one of the fundamental reasons why governments have been
necessary.

You characterize people that speak out against injustice as "whiners," and
that speaks volumes.

The Internet has afforded consumers an opportunity to speak out and also to
warn others to beware of falling into similar traps. I applaud those people
that bring unethical practices into the open. They are not all "whiners,"
they do all of us a service. Of course, there are numerous unscrupulous
sales reps, CSRs and companies that would prefer that such people be
silenced.

One should not have to have a law degree to understand the terms and
conditions of a wireless contract. One should not have to struggle with
understanding the fine points of wireless service just to purchase what has
become a basic commodity these days.

Your dismissing those folks, all with a single wave of the hand, as
"whiners" is inappropriate. It is a well-known fact that big companies
often use their superior position to take advantage of employees (e.g.,
Wal-Mart's reputation for denying health insurance to the majority of their
workers) and customers (e.g., Cingular's reputation for arm-twisting
existing ATTWS customers into paying new activation fees and signing new
term agreements as a condition of "upgrading" to the Orange Network).

Your apparent contempt for the victims, and support for those that have the
advantage speaks volumes.

BruceR

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

> "BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message news:OCFRf.292
>
> Try selling that argument to the Federal Trade Commission . . .
>
> Your view is tilted in favor of the perpetrator. So, if you "do your
> homework," you don't get burned, but if a consumer trusts the
> representations made by the sales rep--especially one that works for
> a large well-known company, one that presumably has some established
> level of integrity--that consumer deserves whatever he/she gets.
>
> Sorry, but history's lessons abound. All civilized societies have
> developed levels of regulatory practices to protect the unsuspecting
> against being exploited. That is one of the fundamental reasons why
> governments have been necessary.
>
> You characterize people that speak out against injustice as
> "whiners," and that speaks volumes.
>
> The Internet has afforded consumers an opportunity to speak out and
> also to warn others to beware of falling into similar traps. I
> applaud those people that bring unethical practices into the open.
> They are not all "whiners," they do all of us a service. Of course,
> there are numerous unscrupulous sales reps, CSRs and companies that
> would prefer that such people be silenced.
>
> One should not have to have a law degree to understand the terms and
> conditions of a wireless contract. One should not have to struggle
> with understanding the fine points of wireless service just to
> purchase what has become a basic commodity these days.
>
> Your dismissing those folks, all with a single wave of the hand, as
> "whiners" is inappropriate. It is a well-known fact that big
> companies often use their superior position to take advantage of
> employees (e.g., Wal-Mart's reputation for denying health insurance
> to the majority of their workers) and customers (e.g., Cingular's
> reputation for arm-twisting existing ATTWS customers into paying new
> activation fees and signing new term agreements as a condition of
> "upgrading" to the Orange Network).
> Your apparent contempt for the victims, and support for those that
> have the advantage speaks volumes.

Sorry, I'm not into coddling people. We have plenty of regulation. Like
I said, and indeed it does "speak volumes," Caveat Emptor!

Cheers!

Scott

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

"Jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%GARf.42254$CI6.35779@trnddc07...
> "Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
> news:w- idnY2Fko72iIvZ4p2dnA
@adelphia.com...
>
> This has nothing to do with anyone being "lazy." The policies change so
> often that even people in the wireless industry can't always keep up.

Not true- pricing might change frequently, product may change frequently,
but policies tend to be the most stable aspect of any business.

>
> Maybe all YOU have to do is to keep abreast of the cellular plans, but
> most of us have lives

I found the hour I spent researching to be quite useful.

>--and we have other things to do besides wondering what trap we will fall
>into next.

I never worry about traps- I know the rules going in. Try it some time.

>
> Regulation is necessary--across virtually all lines of business--because
> unscrupulous business people have used their superior capital, superior
> knowledge and superior resources to exploit consumers. And, while
> competition often serves to reduce such exploitation, it doesn't always
> work. Try reading the numerous posts on this and every other wireless
> newsgroup and you will easily see that many people have complained of
> unethical business practices or outright trickery--and WE ARE NOT ALL
> "LAZY!"

You're right- only the ones that whine after the fact are lazy. And the
fact that you didn't know the right questions to ask at the time of purchase
is not my fault. You probably spent more time trying to get laid that week
than you did trying to understand what you were buying. You are a classic
example of what I am talking about- a consumer who is buying technology that
is way beyond their comprehension. There was no trickery- you don't
understand the product.

>
> Ask the Better Business Bureau if all it takes is for consumers to stop
> being "lazy," and just "do their homework," to make all incidents of
> unethical business practices disappear . . .

You need to show an organization that produces more than a 10% success rate
for the customer. Some day I'll relate some of the 'complaints' received by
a cellular company from the BBB a few years ago- further proof that many
consumers struggle with even the most basic product comprehension.

>
> You are clueless.
>

You got screwed by not knowing what you were buying and I'm clueless?
Interesting definition.

Scott

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

"Jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:10GRf.4202$Jz4.4028@trnddc08...

<snip the juvenile hissy fit>
>

You're about 24 years old, aren't you? I can tell by the uneducated view of
the world. You need to understand how real people deal with things.

Cliff

2006-03-15, 2:48 am

"Jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:HLARf.42256$CI6.10539@trnddc07...
> "BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:YHoRf.2$WK1.1@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> So you DO admit that consumers are often presented with scams? Tell me,
how
> does one "read, read again" when one calls one's carrier to make a change
to
> one's plan, or to add or drop a line, and then finds out that the "change"
> was interpreted by the CSR as another two-year extension? WHEN was the
> customer advised of this? WHEN did the CSR fax or email a new contract to
> the customer to execute and return?
>
> There are hundreds of similar stories out there--and all you do is to
blame

> the victim! You'd probably tell the woman that got raped that she had no
> business going out of her home that day!
>
> What kind of a world would it be if everyone thought like you?
>
>

Let me give you a real life example of what we are discussing here. I went
to a tanning salon and signed up for six months of service. In the
agreement, there was a paragraph that stated that at the end of the six
months my agreement would automatically renew for another six months until I
cancelled the service.

This was also on an automatic debit to my checking account.

After I read that paragraph I scratched through the entire paragraph and
initialed it and had the sales rep initial it also. I then signed the
contract.

At the end of six months I made certain that my bank bounced any and all
automatic draft attempts from them.

Two months later I got a letter from a collections agency telling me I owed
them for 6 months of service. I faxed him a copy of the original agreement
with that part marked out and agreed to by the sales person. Issue solved.

And mainly because this was a CONTRACT and no one should ever sign a
CONTRACT without reading everything in the CONTRACT and making sure you
agree to everything in the CONTRACT.

Jeremy

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

"Cliff" < missingrealname@yaho
o.com> wrote in message
news:cKNRf.19725$733.15083@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>
>
> Two months later I got a letter from a collections agency telling me I
> owed
> them for 6 months of service.

You should never have been placed for collection. The agency may have
automatically filed reports with credit bureaus when they accepted the
account.

But, based upon what some others have posted here, I suppose that one
possible response to your situation would be to say, "GOOD FOR YOU! YOU HAD
IT COMING!" That'll teach you to try to modify a printed contract!

My point is that there is often no price to be paid by the perpetrator, and
the consumer often must jump through hoops before they are made whole again.
If a CSR misrepresents terms and conditions, and the consumer suffers for
having trusted that CSR, that does not make the consumer a whiner, or lazy
or stupid. It makes him, in a sense, a victim. And it is not enough for
the multi-billion dollar company that employs the CSR to just plead that it
was all a mistake, or a misunderstanding or that the CSR needed additional
training.

If these excuses are tolerated by the general public they will lead only to
more and bigger types of offenses.

I feel that you will not agree with my assessment, so let us agree to
disagree. The Federal Trade Commission, the Securities and Exchange
Commission, the Federal Communications Commission, the various state
Insurance Regulatory Agencies, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and a
host of other federal, state and local regulatory agencies all attest to the
need for regulation and enforcement across a broad spectrum of businesses.
You take for granted that most transactions will proceed smoothly, but the
reason that many businesses refrain from exploiting their customers is
because of the very existence of regulatory bodies, and the prospect of
fines and other sanctions being imposed in the event of violations.

Wireless carriers all have crossed the line and they are not saints. And,
while I by no means wish to suggest that ALL consumer complaints are
meritorious, it would be unreasonable for anyone to argue that every single
situation could have been avoided if that lazy, stupid consumer had just
taken the time to do his homework before entering into a relationship with a
carrier.

BruceR

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

> "Cliff" < missingrealname@yaho
o.com> wrote in message
> news:cKNRf.19725$733.15083@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> You should never have been placed for collection. The agency may have
> automatically filed reports with credit bureaus when they accepted the
> account.
>
> But, based upon what some others have posted here, I suppose that one
> possible response to your situation would be to say, "GOOD FOR YOU!
> YOU HAD IT COMING!" That'll teach you to try to modify a printed
> contract!
> My point is that there is often no price to be paid by the
> perpetrator, and the consumer often must jump through hoops before
> they are made whole again. If a CSR misrepresents terms and
> conditions, and the consumer suffers for having trusted that CSR,
> that does not make the consumer a whiner, or lazy or stupid. It
> makes him, in a sense, a victim. And it is not enough for the
> multi-billion dollar company that employs the CSR to just plead that
> it was all a mistake, or a misunderstanding or that the CSR needed
> additional training.
> If these excuses are tolerated by the general public they will lead
> only to more and bigger types of offenses.
>
> I feel that you will not agree with my assessment, so let us agree to
> disagree. The Federal Trade Commission, the Securities and Exchange
> Commission, the Federal Communications Commission, the various state
> Insurance Regulatory Agencies, the Consumer Product Safety Commission
> and a host of other federal, state and local regulatory agencies all
> attest to the need for regulation and enforcement across a broad
> spectrum of businesses. You take for granted that most transactions
> will proceed smoothly, but the reason that many businesses refrain
> from exploiting their customers is because of the very existence of
> regulatory bodies, and the prospect of fines and other sanctions
> being imposed in the event of violations.
> Wireless carriers all have crossed the line and they are not saints.
> And, while I by no means wish to suggest that ALL consumer complaints
> are meritorious, it would be unreasonable for anyone to argue that
> every single situation could have been avoided if that lazy, stupid
> consumer had just taken the time to do his homework before entering
> into a relationship with a carrier.

Jeremy, This is the most eloquent and well reasoned position you have
put forth. While I believe in "Caveat Emptor" I don't believe in
commercial anarchy either. Yes, we have to have the "cop on the corner"
to draw the line and keep the playing field more level but a LOT of the
problems people complain about, particularly, it seems, in newsgroups,
can be avoided by better customer diligence. There is no getting around
the misinformation that CSR's spew forth. Even with good training, the
pay for these positions generates high turnover which results in a never
ending flow of new CSR's who know a little and make up the rest. No
matter what a CSR tells you, READ the contract!

Marty

2006-03-15, 11:48 pm

Somewhere around Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:46:19 GMT, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from "Jeremy"
<jeremy@nospam.com>:

>"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
>news:w- idnY2Fko72iIvZ4p2dnA
@adelphia.com...
>
>This has nothing to do with anyone being "lazy." The policies change so
>often that even people in the wireless industry can't always keep up.
>
>Maybe all YOU have to do is to keep abreast of the cellular plans, but most
>of us have lives--and we have other things to do besides wondering what trap
>we will fall into next.
>
>Regulation is necessary--across virtually all lines of business--because
>unscrupulous business people have used their superior capital, superior
>knowledge and superior resources to exploit consumers. And, while
>competition often serves to reduce such exploitation, it doesn't always
>work. Try reading the numerous posts on this and every other wireless
>newsgroup and you will easily see that many people have complained of
>unethical business practices or outright trickery--and WE ARE NOT ALL
>"LAZY!"
>
>Ask the Better Business Bureau if all it takes is for consumers to stop
>being "lazy," and just "do their homework," to make all incidents of
>unethical business practices disappear . . .
>
>You are clueless.
>
Did you read the original post for this discussion? It seems not. It
wasn't about plans, or changing rules, or any unusual trickery; it was about
a person who bought a phone with a rebate, and then withheld payment for the
amount of the rebate thinking they tried to rip him off by charging the full
amount and making him wait for the rebate. The problem was in not paying
the bill after several months.

I've seen the ads, and it's clear that it's a mail-in rebate. That is the
extent of the discussion. If someone doesn't understand what a mail-in
rebate means, I can't see how that person can claim to have been duped by
anyone other than their own greed or stupidity. If you sign a contract that
says you have to sign up for 10 years to get a phone, and you say you didn't
understand that part, should they say, "oh, sorry, never mind then?"

Oh, right, this is Cingular, I guess you would say that's correct. Never
mind.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

DecaturTxCowboy

2006-03-15, 11:48 pm

BruceR wrote:
> Jeremy, This is the most eloquent and well reasoned position you have
> put forth.

I was thinking the same thing...GOOD FOR JEREMY ! ! !

Jeremy

2006-03-15, 11:48 pm

"Marty" <this.address@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:bd7h129mffhap9e
54p8tlfke4motgig2qb@
4ax.com...
> Did you read the original post for this discussion? It seems not.

Did you read what I was responding to? It seems not. (Hint: It was not the
original post)

SMS

2006-03-18, 5:48 pm

nullah79@gmail.com wrote:
> I have had Cingular since AT&T was merged or bought out by Cingular.
> Was I wrong about AT&T? that they had bad customer service. Let me
> give you a couple of examples

See today's Action Line in the San Jose Mercury News, if you want to see
a real nightmare of their customer service.

"http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/columnists/action_line/14130366.htm"

MR.C

2006-03-20, 5:48 pm

there is an easytway to sum this all up. its called being responsable
for your actions or in otherwords, not passing the buck when you dont
do what your suppose to. when you sign a contract you expect a company
to uphold their part of the deal. well why is it so bad that a company
expects you to hold up your part of the deal?

Jeremy Wrote:
> "Marty" <this.address@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:bd7h129mffhap9e
54p8tlfke4motgig2qb@
4ax.com...
>
> Did you read what I was responding to? It seems not. (Hint: It was
> not the
> original post)

--
MR.C
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cell Phone Forums: http://cellphoneforums.net
View this thread: http://cellphoneforums.net/t208390.html

Donna

2006-03-20, 5:48 pm

I agree with you..I added my daughter to my plan as shared minutes..Got
the confirmation in the mail..They had it set up as separate plan sent
me a ear bug, also the protection and road side which I never agreed
to..After five calls to customer service and several hang ups I got
things resolved..I've been with Cingular since 1990..You think I could
have at least got a apology..What happened to the three C's?..Commitment
to fix what is wrong, courtesty and compassion.I really am thinking
about changing to Sprint.

John Navas

2006-03-21, 5:48 pm

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In < 441c470a$0$95964$742
ec2ed@news.sonic.net> on Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:44:45
-0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>nullah79@gmail.com wrote:
>
>See today's Action Line in the San Jose Mercury News, if you want to see
>a real nightmare of their customer service.
>
>"http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/columnists/action_line/14130366.htm"

Don't you have better things to do with your time than to comb the Internet
for snippets that you think support your anti-Cingular pro-Verizon agenda?
*All* carriers have unfortunate stories like this.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

Paula Thomson

2006-03-23, 2:48 am

I am wondering what they could do if you just didnt pay it. ...wonder
if anone kows.
As far as I am concerned the company should be called CINGULAR CUCKS.
Here is my experience. I got a cingular last August and at first
thought it was going to be cool.
No roam charges...roll over minutes...ah. The first time I went
fifty miles out of town. ...it sas emergaency calls only.... and almost
everytime...I guess you get free roam because they dont let you ..
So thenwhen i really needed it at the airport....sim card rejected.
I had us cell previoulsly and could always at least call then..but ot
with CINGULAR CUCKS...no with sim card rejected...couldnt even dial the
611...I had to walk around the airport to find someone with a
cingular....
So when I called they said that it was my sim card..and they could fix
it by having me turn off the cell and turn it bak on while they
supposedly took out a code..which is all a total bunch of bunk.
On that trip this happened six or seven times...and frequently other
times ..if I would get a mile down the road. ThEN i REMEMBER i had a
friend that said she couldnt even call out from her own house.
I called cingular several times and got a different answer each time.
Finally they said if I would take it in that they woudl give me a free
sim card...
So the phone got so bad today that it just didnt work...period..so I
went there
They called in and verified they couldnt give me a sim card but the
company would credit me for it...I havent got the bill but am all ready
for it to be yet ANOTHER pack of lies.
So after they said they would credit me for it.....the phone didnt
work even after they put the sim card in...of course no offer to replace
it..as it is obvious they probably sold me a used one. One theory i HAVE
IS THAT YOU DONT GET A NEW SIM CARD INT THE FIRST PLACE. ..after all
they could even just put a nice shiny new front on your phone.
So their next story was I needed a new phone....I was really
contemplating jus stopping the contract..but decided to go ahead and
quit maybe a year early..even though I am gatting robbed. If I knocka a
year off...thats six hundredd dollars..even though I pay them one
fifty..and again that is inconsistent...they say one price then
another....
I bought the stupid phone, and even got insurance...for another thirty
will what seemed to be a huge tax...on it.
But they didnt offer to give me my old phone....but I WENT AHEAD AND
PUT IT IN MY PURSE... ..so after one hundred and nine dollars...I had
yet another one of therir monstrosities...Well at least it worked ..we
hope it continues..then when I got home i was looking at my old phone
and then realized I couldnt retrieve my address list. My old us cell, I
can still read my address list...So I opened it and decided to mess with
it. My old phone that doesnt work with the new sim card.....the sob
didnt put the battery back in it....
So I will certainly appreciate it if I can print your letter and put
it everywhere...
But even worse this is the way everything is getting. Its kind of like
a heavy at a carnival..

John Navas

2006-03-23, 2:48 am

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <16015-442230C5-123@storefull-3312.bay.webtv.net> on Wed, 22 Mar 2006
23:23:17 -0600, ebnozn@webtv.net (Paula Thomson) wrote:

> I am wondering what they could do if you just didnt pay it. ...wonder
>if anone kows.
>...

Send it to collection. Suspend your account. Ding your credit.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

Marty

2006-03-23, 5:48 pm

Somewhere around Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:23:17 -0600, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from
ebnozn@webtv.net (Paula Thomson):

> I am wondering what they could do if you just didnt pay it. ...wonder
>if anone kows.
[lots of unintelligible snippage]

Anyone want to second a motion to ban webtv from newsgroups?

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

David W Studeman

2006-03-25, 5:48 am

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:23:17 -0600, Paula Thomson wrote:

> I am wondering what they could do if you just didnt pay it. ...wonder
> if anone kows.
> As far as I am concerned the company should be called CINGULAR CUCKS.
> Here is my experience. I got a cingular last August and at first
> thought it was going to be cool.
> No roam charges...roll over minutes...ah. The first time I went
> fifty miles out of town. ...it sas emergaency calls only.... and almost
> everytime...I guess you get free roam because they dont let you ..
> So thenwhen i really needed it at the airport....sim card rejected.
> I had us cell previoulsly and could always at least call then..but ot
> with CINGULAR CUCKS...no with sim card rejected...couldnt even dial the
> 611...I had to walk around the airport to find someone with a
> cingular....
> So when I called they said that it was my sim card..and they could fix
> it by having me turn off the cell and turn it bak on while they
> supposedly took out a code..which is all a total bunch of bunk.
> On that trip this happened six or seven times...and frequently other
> times ..if I would get a mile down the road. ThEN i REMEMBER i had a
> friend that said she couldnt even call out from her own house.
> I called cingular several times and got a different answer each time.
> Finally they said if I would take it in that they woudl give me a free
> sim card...
> So the phone got so bad today that it just didnt work...period..so I
> went there
> They called in and verified they couldnt give me a sim card but the
> company would credit me for it...I havent got the bill but am all ready
> for it to be yet ANOTHER pack of lies.
> So after they said they would credit me for it.....the phone didnt
> work even after they put the sim card in...of course no offer to replace
> it..as it is obvious they probably sold me a used one. One theory i HAVE
> IS THAT YOU DONT GET A NEW SIM CARD INT THE FIRST PLACE. ..after all
> they could even just put a nice shiny new front on your phone.
> So their next story was I needed a new phone....I was really
> contemplating jus stopping the contract..but decided to go ahead and
> quit maybe a year early..even though I am gatting robbed. If I knocka a
> year off...thats six hundredd dollars..even though I pay them one
> fifty..and again that is inconsistent...they say one price then
> another....
> I bought the stupid phone, and even got insurance...for another thirty
> will what seemed to be a huge tax...on it.
> But they didnt offer to give me my old phone....but I WENT AHEAD AND
> PUT IT IN MY PURSE... ..so after one hundred and nine dollars...I had
> yet another one of therir monstrosities...Well at least it worked ..we
> hope it continues..then when I got home i was looking at my old phone
> and then realized I couldnt retrieve my address list. My old us cell, I
> can still read my address list...So I opened it and decided to mess with
> it. My old phone that doesnt work with the new sim card.....the sob
> didnt put the battery back in it....
> So I will certainly appreciate it if I can print your letter and put
> it everywhere...
> But even worse this is the way everything is getting. Its kind of like
> a heavy at a carnival..

Cucks? That sounds like Kucks. There are many factors involved with bad
reception, not the least of which is the "nimby" crowd who make sure a
tower could not be built near them. As far as customer service and the
technology used, I won't touch Verizon or Sprint with YOUR hands even. My
only gripe is that Cingular is way too vague with their coverage maps
whereas T-Mobile will tell you exactly where its towers are in a given
area and even show whether weak, fair, good, or excellent coverage is
available at your exact point. With any cellular service, there WILL be
outages due to even upgrades and then equipment failure and the other
stuff that ISN'T supposed to happen. I'm happy cellular service is now
even useable, several years ago, it was a miracle just to finish a
conversation on one.
As far as just not paying, what will happen at first is they cut the
service and suspend the account. Eventually, the amount the bill reached
by then, usually three months or more, will go to collection and then an
agency. You DO have time to see if it will work for you and can cancel
and walk away if it doesn't. The only people who do get screwed are those
who are past that grace period and move to a poor coverage area.

Dave

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