Cingular cell phone service - 8125 PDA and Laptop

Author

8125 PDA and Laptop

babs

2006-08-13, 10:33 pm

I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
Cingular store to get correct answers!

I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?

The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-13, 10:33 pm

The data plans are confusing because pricing can be different depending
on the device.

The 8125 qualifies as a SmartPhone, so you can purchase the SmartPhone
unlimited data connect ($20/month on-line pricing), so add $20/month to
whatever you plan is now and that's all you'll pay.

The 8125 can be used as a modem as can the Cingular 2125 (I'm sure you
didn't miss the already lengthy recent thread on this), you can easily
use the device as a modem to connect to the Internet (as you'll
probably want to do) and you can use Cingular's EDGE network service
without minute charges if you have the SmartPhone unlimited (you just
pay that flat monthly fee fee for data service). This gets resonable
connect speeds (I've used it only a few times, but my average speed has
been around 160-180 kbps using the 2125 model, which is also a Windows
Mobile 5.0 SmartPhone). You can see how easy this is to configure in
the users manual (don't expect any help from Cingular support, there
can be some additional steps on the laptop, again see my thread or
search Wikipedia)
https://onlinecare.cingular.com/dev...ngular_8125.pdf

>From all reviews I've read the 8125 is an excellent phone and Cingular
has good pricing on the monthly unlimited data access.

babs wrote:
> I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
> I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
> please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
> Cingular store to get correct answers!
>
> I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
> access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
> modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?
>
> The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
> way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
> up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

Jud Hardcastle

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

In article <1155522843.518011.126140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com says...
> The 8125 qualifies as a SmartPhone, so you can purchase the SmartPhone
> unlimited data connect ($20/month on-line pricing), so add $20/month to
> whatever you plan is now and that's all you'll pay.
>
> connect speeds (I've used it only a few times, but my average speed has
> been around 160-180 kbps using the 2125 model, which is also a Windows
> Mobile 5.0 SmartPhone). You can see how easy this is to configure in

Technically the 8125 does *not* qualify as a SmartPhone--it is *not*
running Windows Mobile 5.0 Smartphone Edition--it is running Windows
Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Edition and that makes it a pda not a smartphone.
Admittedly there is very little difference internally between the two
OS--so little that rumors say the next version will be merged. BUT--if
you select the 8125 in the online ordering system you are not even
giving the option to select a "SmartPhone Connect" data plan--likewise
if you choose the 2125 you cannot select "Data Connect for PDAs".

Since you appear to have the 2125, which *is* a SmartPhone, and not the
8125 I must ask--have you actually verified that someone who officially
has the 8125 can add the Smartphone Unlimited Data feature to their
plan? I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work technically I'm just
saying there's a good chance a 8125 user couldn't add the feature via a
CSR--does the online account feature verify stuff like that?

And as for legality--here's what the terms & conditions sheet says:
SMARTPHONE CONNECT: Not available on PDAs/Pocket PCs, RIM® devices and
LaptopConnect cards. May only be used with eligible Cingular-certified
Smartphones (Motorola MPX 220, Cingular 2125, Audiovox SMT 5600 or such
other Smartphones as Cingular may certify for use with these plans).
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

No, I do not know anyone personally using the 8125 with SmartPhone data
connect.

I was looking at the 8125 at the sametime I was looking at the 2125....
I wanted the 8125 but decided ultimately I didn't need a PDA, if the
price gap was a bit smaller I probably would have gotten the 8125, but
I liked the smaller form of the 2125 and decided ultimately the device
was well suited for what I need to do....

When I was in the Cingular store I asked the sales rep which devices
qualified for the SmartPhone connect plan, he said the 8125, the 2125
and the Audiovox SMT5600 (no longer available) and that there may be
more models (he didn't know).

So my word is as good as the sales rep who told me, which doesn't say
much. Go double check yourself. I would talk with someone at a Cingular
store and then call Cingular customer service to double check..

Jud Hardcastle wrote:
> In article <1155522843.518011.126140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com says...
>
> Technically the 8125 does *not* qualify as a SmartPhone--it is *not*
> running Windows Mobile 5.0 Smartphone Edition--it is running Windows
> Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Edition and that makes it a pda not a smartphone.
> Admittedly there is very little difference internally between the two
> OS--so little that rumors say the next version will be merged. BUT--if
> you select the 8125 in the online ordering system you are not even
> giving the option to select a "SmartPhone Connect" data plan--likewise
> if you choose the 2125 you cannot select "Data Connect for PDAs".
>
> Since you appear to have the 2125, which *is* a SmartPhone, and not the
> 8125 I must ask--have you actually verified that someone who officially
> has the 8125 can add the Smartphone Unlimited Data feature to their
> plan? I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work technically I'm just
> saying there's a good chance a 8125 user couldn't add the feature via a
> CSR--does the online account feature verify stuff like that?
>
> And as for legality--here's what the terms & conditions sheet says:
> SMARTPHONE CONNECT: Not available on PDAs/Pocket PCs, RIM=AE devices and
> LaptopConnect cards. May only be used with eligible Cingular-certified
> Smartphones (Motorola MPX 220, Cingular 2125, Audiovox SMT 5600 or such
> other Smartphones as Cingular may certify for use with these plans).
> --=20
> Jud=20
> Dallas TX USA

John Navas

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

On 13 Aug 2006 16:03:22 -0700, "babs"
< networking@alltogeth
ernowtravel.com> wrote in
<1155510202.445155.12950@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:

>I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
>I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
>please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
>Cingular store to get correct answers!
>
>I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
>access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
>modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?
>
>The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
>way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
>up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

To use it "tethered" to a computer, Cingular expects you to have a
Laptop DataConnect plan. You can probably get it working without that
(e.g., PDA Connect), but risk being terminated by Cingular.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

John Navas

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

On 13 Aug 2006 16:03:22 -0700, "babs"
< networking@alltogeth
ernowtravel.com> wrote in
<1155510202.445155.12950@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:

>I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
>I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
>please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
>Cingular store to get correct answers!
>
>I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
>access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
>modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?
>
>The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
>way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
>up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

p.s. Take Jeremy with a grain of salt -- he's badly misinformed (see my
responses to him) and on a mission.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

Well, I haven't seen my first bill yet since activating the service....
I may get a little surpise, but that's not what I have been told,
however there seem to be different stories:

This is regarding the Cingular 2125 again, but look at the first blog
response and aparently some sales reps are saying you stand to be
billed by the download quality when using the phone as a modem.
http://blogs.msdn.com/mpoulson/arch.../17/514017.aspx

Having not used the 8125 all I can say is that in it's users manual on
Cingular's website (the 8125 is also Cingular branded btw John) you can
clearly see instructions for using it as a modem and I can confirm that
following very similar instructions on the Cingular 2125 works just
fine....

Logic would tell you if Cingular didn't intend the phone to be used in
this way they would not provide this information ina manual they put
their brand on. Neither of these devices are incredibly new so if there
was a problem Cingular would have corrected.

Also you can see in reviews by PC Magazine and CNet for, at least the
Cingular 2125 both reviews commented on using the phone as a modem over
EDGE.

Don't expect Cingular support to explain any of this.... The sales reps
at the stores seem to know more and they have conflicting
information....

John Navas wrote:
> On 13 Aug 2006 16:03:22 -0700, "babs"
> < networking@alltogeth
ernowtravel.com> wrote in
> <1155510202.445155.12950@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
> p.s. Take Jeremy with a grain of salt -- he's badly misinformed (see my
> responses to him) and on a mission.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

DecaturTxCowboy

2006-08-14, 4:33 am

John Navas wrote:
> p.s. Take Jeremy with a grain of salt -- he's badly misinformed (see my
> responses to him) and on a mission.

p.s. Take Navas with a grain of salt -- he's badly misinformed (at
times) and on a mission.

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 12:33 pm

There have been a few blog post on this (I've already provided a link
to Mike's blog entry, dated January 06) as well as at least one post
up on Cingular's offical board....

I don't see a single follow up reply to any of these entries of someone
actually claiming to have had their service terminated or to have been
billed by the minute for this and in Mike's blog (which was linked to
off Sroble's site, which is read by thousands of techies gadget lovers
like me), Mike states he has the MediaNet Unlimited access.

If I followed advice on-line and got something working and was billed
unexpectedly or had my service terminated, I would certainly track down
the blog or message board entry where I found the information and
provide an update.... I think it's common sense to assume at least one
person would do this.

So all arrows seem to point to one being able to use the 8125 and 2125
as a "virtual" modem (happy John) to connect a laptop over EDGE with
only the SmartPhone unlimited account...

I wonder if the device somehow mask from Cingular that it's being used
in a tethered mode when this advice is followed. I don't see how that's
possible, but maybe it is. Regardless it seems to work just fine and to
me anyway, was an advertised feature by a sales rep of the SmartPhone
unlimited service.

babs wrote:
> I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
> I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
> please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
> Cingular store to get correct answers!
>
> I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
> access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
> modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?
>
> The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
> way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
> up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 12:33 pm

Yet more proof this can be done...
http://www.htcwizardweb.net/node/836

Follow that link and you'll see many users have been using their
SmartPhone 8125 to access the web for their laptop over EDGE using just
the MediaNet/SmartPhone unlimited $20/month account.

Regardless of if Cingular offically supports this or not, it appears to
be a fact that they are not stopping it. Since it's going through
WAP.CINGULAR I'm still questioning if they can detect it... If they
can't, they could certainly judge by jow much data you are using and if
you start using it to stream down movie trailers and other bandwidth
intensive activities they may take action.... If the device is masking
its tethering from the provider then they may have a hard time proving
it...

But if I honestly thought Cingular cared or would terminate my account
because of this I wouldn't be recommending it.

babs wrote:
> I have spent a couple of says searching usenet for these - but figured
> I might be able to get a straightforward answer by simply asking (read:
> please not a lot of technical jargon). I don't trust going into the
> Cingular store to get correct answers!
>
> I am interested in getting the 8125 PDA phone for "on the fly" internet
> access (maybe via "go to my pc), but would also like to use it as a
> modem when I am on the road with my laptop - will I be able to do this?
>
> The data plans are confusing though - if I want to use it in the above
> way, my understanding is that it would be most cost effective to sign
> up for the $59.99 unlimited plan. Is this correct?

St. John Smythe

2006-08-14, 12:33 pm

I've been following this with interest since a couple of weeks ago when
I got a 6102i with MediaNet unlimited. At the time, tethering wasn't
something I had in mind, but the Cingular representative suggested it,
which got the wheels turning.

Went home, confirmed that I could connect to the internet via Bluetooth
and the 6102i <woo-hoo> and immediately turned it off. Since then, I've

o re-checked with two other Cingular reps, who both said tethering was
O.K. (with a bit of an undercurrent of "why would you ask?").

o Pored over the various literature and agreements and found that, while
tethering via MediaNet is discouraged in several ways, I didn't find
anyplace it was out-and-out prohibited, but rather, found things like:
-...cannot be used...(rather than may not be)
-...Cingular reserves the right to terminate...
-etc.

o As yet, there don't seem to be any cases of people having their
service terminated because of tethering.

So, my take on it so far: On balance, Cingular finds that getting
$20/month for as many users as possible provides a good business case
for overlooking "nominal" use via tethering, but in the case of abuse,
i.e., high-volume extended-time connections, they've protected their
ability to pull the plug on that (ab)user.

Just a guess, from
--
St. John

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every
effort to teach them good manners.

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 12:33 pm

Seems like you've had the same experience as I have.... Cingular isn't
stopping it, there sales reps at retail outlets are even says "it's all
good", some of them anyway... However, Cingular is careful to reserve
the right to terminate....

I take that to mean just be conservative with the tethering, don't
stream, don't keep the device in tethered mode for hours daily, etc....

I wonder if there is a good reason for Cingular having so many
different data plans based on devices.... I understand why they may
want to charge more for tethering on some devices (e.g. blackberry
devices), but it's very confusing to customers... On a SmartPhone that
can actually stream media on the device the line really blurs between
bandwidth using on the device and what you may conservatively do with a
laptop connection.... As users begin doing more and more on their
handsets, it doesn't make sense for the cell providers to charge more
for laptop connectivity....

St. John Smythe wrote:
> I've been following this with interest since a couple of weeks ago when
> I got a 6102i with MediaNet unlimited. At the time, tethering wasn't
> something I had in mind, but the Cingular representative suggested it,
> which got the wheels turning.
>
> Went home, confirmed that I could connect to the internet via Bluetooth
> and the 6102i <woo-hoo> and immediately turned it off. Since then, I've
>
> o re-checked with two other Cingular reps, who both said tethering was
> O.K. (with a bit of an undercurrent of "why would you ask?").
>
> o Pored over the various literature and agreements and found that, while
> tethering via MediaNet is discouraged in several ways, I didn't find
> anyplace it was out-and-out prohibited, but rather, found things like:
> -...cannot be used...(rather than may not be)
> -...Cingular reserves the right to terminate...
> -etc.
>
> o As yet, there don't seem to be any cases of people having their
> service terminated because of tethering.
>
> So, my take on it so far: On balance, Cingular finds that getting
> $20/month for as many users as possible provides a good business case
> for overlooking "nominal" use via tethering, but in the case of abuse,
> i.e., high-volume extended-time connections, they've protected their
> ability to pull the plug on that (ab)user.
>
> Just a guess, from
> --
> St. John
>
> Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every
> effort to teach them good manners.

John Navas

2006-08-14, 3:33 pm

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:17:02 -0400, "St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com>
wrote in <ebqb6e$35p$3@n4vu2.n4vu.com>:

>I've been following this with interest since a couple of weeks ago when
>I got a 6102i with MediaNet unlimited. At the time, tethering wasn't
>something I had in mind, but the Cingular representative suggested it,
>which got the wheels turning.
>
>Went home, confirmed that I could connect to the internet via Bluetooth
>and the 6102i <woo-hoo> and immediately turned it off. Since then, I've
>
>o re-checked with two other Cingular reps, who both said tethering was
>O.K. (with a bit of an undercurrent of "why would you ask?").
>
>o Pored over the various literature and agreements and found that, while
>tethering via MediaNet is discouraged in several ways, I didn't find
>anyplace it was out-and-out prohibited, but rather, found things like:
> -...cannot be used...(rather than may not be)
> -...Cingular reserves the right to terminate...
> -etc.

"Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions"
<http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/ce...n/legal/pop-...>
(or <http://tinyurl.com/mxcgh> ):

Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry
Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device
(through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other
phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless
technology) to laptops, PCs, or other equipment for any purpose.
Service is not intended to provide full-time connections, and the
Service may be discontinued after a significant period of inactivity
or after sessions of excessive usage. Cingular reserves the right to
(i) limit throughput or amount of data transferred, deny Service
and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is
using the Service in any manner prohibited above or whose usage
adversely impacts its network or service levels and (ii) protect its
network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows.

>o As yet, there don't seem to be any cases of people having their
>service terminated because of tethering.

True, although there have been people surprised by big pay-as-you-go
bills when MEdia Net was mistakenly removed from their accounts. That
happened to me twice, and both times the charges were corrected and the
package restored by Cingular on (polite) request by me, with additional
credit to compensate me for the hassle.

>So, my take on it so far: On balance, Cingular finds that getting
>$20/month for as many users as possible provides a good business case
>for overlooking "nominal" use via tethering, but in the case of abuse,
>i.e., high-volume extended-time connections, they've protected their
>ability to pull the plug on that (ab)user.
>
>Just a guess, from
>St. John

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

St. John Smythe

2006-08-14, 3:33 pm

John Navas wrote:
>
> "Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions"
> <http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/ce...n/legal/pop-...>
> (or <http://tinyurl.com/mxcgh> ):
>
> Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry
> Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device

Right, which if their English usage is correct, doesn't mean that the
practice is prohibited, but rather, that it can't be done. (Saying that
unlimited plans...MAY NOT be used...would be the prohibitive phrasing.)

--
St. John
Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life.
-Dave Butler

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 3:33 pm

I've ask Mike Poulson (who blogged how to do this back in January 06)
if he has ever been terminate or if he has had unexpected per-minute or
per-kb showing up on his bill, he confirmed he has never experienced
that, but also said he only uses the phone to tether "from time ot
time"....

So it is supported, but it isnt'... Which is what I've been saying all
along. Since the Cingular retail sales reps are recommending this, I
hardly see it as being malicious -or- hacking on the part of the end
user. If Cingular knows people are dong this and cared they would stop
it by charging extra or terminating service, but there is no account of
this happening due to SmartPhone tethering.

You say you've had unexpected thing happen with you account, but did
you ever get confirmation from Cingular as to why this happend??? Did
they tell you "we terminated your service because we detected you doing
X". You need to take Cingular out of the black box you have them in, or
at least disclose what is assumption and what is fact.

It appears to be a fact that people are using the SmartPhone devices to
tether with a $20 MediaNet/SmartPhone unlimited account.

Cingular seems to be holding two standards... If you want to pay them
extra for the laptop link, they will gladly take your money... If you
want to tether the device using SmartPhone unlimited you can do that
too. Cingular needs to get their act togeather. You can go by the fine
print all day... they certainly don't appear to be by allowing this to
go on.. This just goes to show their disorganization as a company and
their inability to marshall their own services. It also has apparently
put their customer support department in an awkward situation, the
entire company seems to not have a solid stand on the issue....

So if you don't have a SmartPhone you have to pay $80 for the unlimited
tethering package, or accept fixed MB download use. If you have a
SmartPhone you get unlimited MediaNet using over WAP.CINGULAR and as a
bonus you get unlimited tethering... but Cingular "reserves the right
to terminate", which they so far haven't done and which is why I say
that's probably in the terms just to prevent abuse of this.

If you want to continue to provide accurate information to your readers
I think it's time to update the Wikipedia page....

John Navas wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:17:02 -0400, "St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com>
> wrote in <ebqb6e$35p$3@n4vu2.n4vu.com>:
>
>
> "Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions"
> <http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/ce...n/legal/pop-...>
> (or <http://tinyurl.com/mxcgh> ):
>
> Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry
> Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device
> (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other
> phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth=AE or any other wireless
> technology) to laptops, PCs, or other equipment for any purpose.
> Service is not intended to provide full-time connections, and the
> Service may be discontinued after a significant period of inactivity
> or after sessions of excessive usage. Cingular reserves the right to
> (i) limit throughput or amount of data transferred, deny Service
> and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is
> using the Service in any manner prohibited above or whose usage
> adversely impacts its network or service levels and (ii) protect its
> network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows.
>
>
> True, although there have been people surprised by big pay-as-you-go
> bills when MEdia Net was mistakenly removed from their accounts. That
> happened to me twice, and both times the charges were corrected and the
> package restored by Cingular on (polite) request by me, with additional
> credit to compensate me for the hassle.
>
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

John Navas

2006-08-14, 3:33 pm

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:31:35 -0400, "St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com>
wrote in <ebqfi8$35p$6@n4vu2.n4vu.com>:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>Right, which if their English usage is correct, doesn't mean that the
>practice is prohibited, but rather, that it can't be done. (Saying that
>unlimited plans...MAY NOT be used...would be the prohibitive phrasing.)

I respectfully disagree.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

dold@XReXX8125X.usenet.us.com

2006-08-14, 3:33 pm

John Navas < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

> "Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions"
> <http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/ce...n/legal/pop-...>
> (or <http://tinyurl.com/mxcgh> ):

> Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry
> Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device

Scratch my earlier objection about the use of "package" verses "plan"
verses "service" ;-(

The word cannot should be replaced with "shall not".
"May not" would be permissive, indicating that the service might work at
one time, and not another.

But I'm sure Cingular doesn't care what I think, since they don't seem to
have any consistency in these "legal" ramblings.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 10:33 pm

Three questions.

How do you explain that on Cingular's site that outlines data plans (a
link you provided to me in another thread) that Cingular list a
tethering plan under Blackberry devices and not SmartPhones?

How do you explain reports my myself and it seems quite a few others
that Cingular sales clerks in their retail outlets are telling
customers "yes, you can use a $20/month MediaNet unlimited account to
access the Internet from your laptop through the phone as a modem,
without additional charge"?

How do you explain the blog reports where how to set the device up to
do this is clearly explained and users have reported (Mike's post seems
to be the earliest back in Janauary) for the past seven months that
nothing strange has been reported as having happend billing wise for
these folks?

It seems to me the only logical conclusion is that Cingular doesn't
care and it appears even endources this. The details in the fine print
of the terms & conditions is just another example of inconsistency on
their part.

The reality isn't in your interpretation of the terms and conditions
(or anyones interpretation) the reality is in what people are being
told by Cingular and what people have been actually paying...

The reality is when you call Cingular to ask them about all of this,
they haven't a clue....

John Navas wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:31:35 -0400, "St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com>
> wrote in <ebqfi8$35p$6@n4vu2.n4vu.com>:
>
>
> I respectfully disagree.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

St. John Smythe

2006-08-14, 10:33 pm

dold@XReXX8125X.usenet.us.com wrote:
> John Navas < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>
>
> The word cannot should be replaced with "shall not".
> "May not" would be permissive, indicating that the service might work at
> one time, and not another.

And the cigar goes to Clarence. That was the point I was trying to
make, but you did it right.

--
St. John
"The fundamental principle of science, the definition almost, is this: the
sole test of the validity of any idea is experiment."
-Richard P. Feynman

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2006-08-14, 10:33 pm

In article < 2uh1e2h5re131n4oq8mg
9p6b4ptiq6rm62@4ax.com>,
John Navas < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

> I respectfully disagree.

Rubbish.

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com

2006-08-14, 10:33 pm

Aparently John has started/maintained the Wikipedia page of Cingular
information... That tells me he's passionate about this topic and has
put a lot of his personal time into providing information to people,
which explains why he's trying to push his point.... I respect that and
if he is responsible for that site, I'm grateful to have it. Someone
had to compensate for the piss poor job our cell providers have done in
providing detailed information to customers (take notice, I'm not just
targeting Cingular here, this is an area where they all suck).

Unfortunately I feel in this set of discussion he's coming across like
the kid who gets beat up at school, his face is full of blood, his
vision blured, but he keeps getting up like a trooper, and then he
keeps getting his XXX handed to him. You'd think at some point he'd
just give up and stop posting and realize he's wrong on this.

Then again, it could be he has it out for SmartPhone devices in general
or just can't accept that Cingular's pricing models for data connect
service are so drasticly different based on device... I won't waste any
more thought on trying to figure out his thought process, it's consumed
enough of my time.

The last few days It's been kind of like an itch you have to scratch.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article < 2uh1e2h5re131n4oq8mg
9p6b4ptiq6rm62@4ax.com>,
> John Navas < spamfilter0@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>
>
> Rubbish.

DecaturTxCowboy

2006-08-14, 10:33 pm

Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com wrote:
> How do you explain reports my myself and it seems quite a few others
> that Cingular sales clerks in their retail outlets are telling
> customers "yes, you can use a $20/month MediaNet unlimited account to
> access the Internet from your laptop through the phone as a modem,
> without additional charge"?

Easy...they really don't understand the Cingular's terms and conditions.
Most are simple sales drones with no understanding of the distinction.
Try to educate them and it goes in one ear and out the other as knowing
they shouldn't be saying this would impact their sales in a negative manner.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2006-08-15, 7:33 am

In article <1155602853.154075.295710@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com wrote:

> Aparently John has started/maintained the Wikipedia page of Cingular
> information... That tells me he's passionate about this topic and has
> put a lot of his personal time into providing information to people,
> which explains why he's trying to push his point.... I respect that and
> if he is responsible for that site, I'm grateful to have it. Someone
> had to compensate for the piss poor job our cell providers have done in
> providing detailed information to customers (take notice, I'm not just
> targeting Cingular here, this is an area where they all suck).
>
> Unfortunately I feel in this set of discussion he's coming across like
> the kid who gets beat up at school, his face is full of blood, his
> vision blured, but he keeps getting up like a trooper, and then he
> keeps getting his XXX handed to him. You'd think at some point he'd
> just give up and stop posting and realize he's wrong on this.

Welcome to John Navas.

You now have some perspective into which you can put his wiki page.

And you have perfectly described John's behavior here for...how long is
it now?

At one point, he was bloodied so badly he stayed away for a couple of
months. Ah......

Jud Hardcastle

2006-08-15, 10:33 am

In article <ebqj86$9eg$3@blue.rahul.net>, dold@XReXX8125X.usenet.us.com
says...
>
> Scratch my earlier objection about the use of "package" verses "plan"
> verses "service" ;-(
>
> The word cannot should be replaced with "shall not".
> "May not" would be permissive, indicating that the service might work at
> one time, and not another.
>
I think you guys are being a bit too technical. "Cannot" in this clause
is not referring to whether tethering can or cannot be done
"physically" but that it cannot be done by the user without being in
violation of the contract. Yes "shall not" might be a bit clearer but
since when is legalese clear--wanna put lawyers out of a job (-:?
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

St. John Smythe

2006-08-15, 12:33 pm

Jud Hardcastle wrote:
> I think you guys are being a bit too technical.

It's being sufficiently "technical" (I'd probably say "exacting,"
instead) that goes a long way toward keeping things out of court (and
Usenet discussions). I'd say on the other hand that the writers of the
verbiage in question were not technical enough, because "cannot" is
ambiguous in the minds of so many contemporary readers. Perhaps the
writers wanted to exploit that ambiguity, but there's really no way of
knowing, is there?

> "Cannot" in this clause
> is not referring to whether tethering can or cannot be done
> "physically" but that it cannot be done by the user without being in
> violation of the contract. Yes "shall not" might be a bit clearer but
> since when is legalese clear...

Actually, *good* legalese is perfectly clear; it's bad legalese that's
ambiguous. If you, Jud, take the position that the language under
discussion is bad legalese, then I'd tend to agree with your statement
above (because the exact meaning of "can" is slowly getting corrupted),
but ask any veteran print journalist or English teacher, and you'll get
the same answer: "cannot" does not properly refer to permission. I have
no idea what was in the minds of the writers; all we have to go on is
exactly what it says.

--
St. John
The difference between the right word and the almost right word is
really a large matter- it's the difference between a lightning bug and
the lightning. -Mark Twain

Fred

2006-08-19, 4:33 am

This has been an interesting thread. Makes me wonder why I was told I
had to get an unlimited data plan for $40 a month which is what I'm
paying. 8125

Fred

On 14 Aug 2006 10:02:15 -0700, Jeremy.Deats@gmail.com wrote:
[color=darkred]
>Yet more proof this can be done...
>http://www.htcwizardweb.net/node/836
>
>Follow that link and you'll see many users have been using their
>SmartPhone 8125 to access the web for their laptop over EDGE using just
>the MediaNet/SmartPhone unlimited $20/month account.
>
>Regardless of if Cingular offically supports this or not, it appears to
>be a fact that they are not stopping it. Since it's going through
>WAP.CINGULAR I'm still questioning if they can detect it... If they
>can't, they could certainly judge by jow much data you are using and if
>you start using it to stream down movie trailers and other bandwidth
>intensive activities they may take action.... If the device is masking
>its tethering from the provider then they may have a hard time proving
>it...
>
>But if I honestly thought Cingular cared or would terminate my account
>because of this I wouldn't be recommending it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>babs wrote:

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