Cingular cell phone service - How to identify problematic model phones.

Author

How to identify problematic model phones.

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net

2007-04-17, 7:33 am

really simple.

just go look online where Cingular sells phones.

i.e.
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-...flip-phones.jsp

and if a particular model is available for sale as a refurb, it means
they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
or repair issues, or both.

You might want to avoid such models.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2007-04-17, 10:33 am

In article < haf923pdfj8aaq1esjjf
c0nmn5g613vh6e@4ax.com>,
karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote:

> just go look online where Cingular sells phones.
>
> i.e.
> http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-...flip-phones.jsp
>
> and if a particular model is available for sale as a refurb, it means
> they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
> or repair issues, or both.

Another way is to look for the brand name "Motorola" on the phone.

John Navas

2007-04-17, 10:33 am

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:30:32 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote in
< haf923pdfj8aaq1esjjf
c0nmn5g613vh6e@4ax.com>:

>really simple.
>
>just go look online where Cingular sells phones.
>
>i.e.
>http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-...flip-phones.jsp
>
>and if a particular model is available for sale as a refurb, it means
>they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
>or repair issues, or both.
>
>You might want to avoid such models.

Not necessarily. Not so simple. The availability of refurbs is normal
on high-volume products no matter how good they are; e.g.,
Volume Return Rate Returns
Phone A 500,000 1% 5,000
Phone B 10,000 10% 1,000

Phone A is clearly more reliable than Phone B even though it has many
times the number of returns. Thus what matters is the return rate, not
the number of returns.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

John Navas

2007-04-17, 10:33 am

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:43:15 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
<elmop-A8FD32. 10431517042007@nntp9
.usenetserver.com>:

>In article < haf923pdfj8aaq1esjjf
c0nmn5g613vh6e@4ax.com>,
> karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote:
>
>
>Another way is to look for the brand name "Motorola" on the phone.

Just remember to take Usenet flames with a grain of salt. ;)

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net

2007-04-17, 10:33 am

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:59:00 GMT, John Navas
< spamfilter1@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:30:32 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote in
>< haf923pdfj8aaq1esjjf
c0nmn5g613vh6e@4ax.com>:
>
>
>Not necessarily. Not so simple. The availability of refurbs is normal
>on high-volume products no matter how good they are; e.g.,
> Volume Return Rate Returns
>Phone A 500,000 1% 5,000
>Phone B 10,000 10% 1,000
>
>Phone A is clearly more reliable than Phone B even though it has many
>times the number of returns. Thus what matters is the return rate, not
>the number of returns.

If its only 1% return they would not need to push refurbs on the web.

And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
available.

John Navas

2007-04-17, 12:33 pm

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:08:29 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote in
< rlo923pj7ahtf432dl55
4lm4vevr8j9eoo@4ax.com>:

>On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:59:00 GMT, John Navas
>< spamfilter1@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

>
>If its only 1% return they would not need to push refurbs on the web.

That doesn't follow.

>And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
>available.

Your point?

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

Todd Allcock

2007-04-17, 12:33 pm

At 17 Apr 2007 12:30:32 +0000 karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote:
>
> really simple.
>
> just go look online where Cingular sells phones.
> and if a particular model is available for sale as a refurb, it means
> they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
> or repair issues, or both.
>
> You might want to avoid such models.

Or, it's a case where they've sold a gazillion, and a "normal" rate of
return results in a big pile!

Most of the refurbs tend to be cheap low-end models- these will sell in
higher numbers, and even a normal failure rate will result in a good
number of available refurbs. Add to that non-defective returns of "test-
drives" and that's a lot of refurbs for sale.

My refurb Cingular Nokia 3120b I bought a year ago was a steal at $30
with no commitment and is working fine unlocked with T-Mo prepaid
service. I wanted a cheap, reliable, small 850/1900 phone as a backup
and the 3120b fit the biil. (At that time, T-Mo's entry-level was the
similarly priced and featured, but much larger, Nokia 6010.)

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net

2007-04-17, 12:33 pm

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:46:40 GMT, John Navas
< spamfilter1@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:08:29 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote in
>< rlo923pj7ahtf432dl55
4lm4vevr8j9eoo@4ax.com>:
>
>
>
>That doesn't follow.
>
>
>Your point?

Wonderful how you play dumb when your guess is disputed.

John Navas

2007-04-17, 3:33 pm

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:06:45 -0600, Todd Allcock
< elecconnec@AmericaOn
Line.com> wrote in <f02rt4$54t$1@aioe.org>:

>At 17 Apr 2007 12:30:32 +0000 karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net wrote:
>
>Or, it's a case where they've sold a gazillion, and a "normal" rate of
>return results in a big pile!
>
>Most of the refurbs tend to be cheap low-end models- these will sell in
>higher numbers, and even a normal failure rate will result in a good
>number of available refurbs. Add to that non-defective returns of "test-
>drives" and that's a lot of refurbs for sale.

It's quite normal for more than 90% of returns to be "no trouble found"
-- in other words, returned for reasons other than product performance
(e.g., want a different color).

>My refurb Cingular Nokia 3120b I bought a year ago was a steal at $30
>with no commitment and is working fine unlocked with T-Mo prepaid
>service. I wanted a cheap, reliable, small 850/1900 phone as a backup
>and the 3120b fit the biil. (At that time, T-Mo's entry-level was the
>similarly priced and featured, but much larger, Nokia 6010.)

The quality of _factory_ refurbs tends to be as good or better than new
production.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Cingu...less_FA
Q>

Todd H.

2007-04-17, 3:33 pm

karlkrandall@sbcglob
al.net writes:

> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:59:00 GMT, John Navas
> < spamfilter1@navasgro
up.com> wrote:
>
>
> If its only 1% return they would not need to push refurbs on the
> web.

Bad conclusion if you ask me. In the example above they've got 4x as
many units to unload. Do you think they'd keep from marketing those
refurbs because the return rate was low? Of course not.

Return rate wouldn't gate marketing on the web site, absolute numbers
are much more likely to. As John's example indicated, the existence of
refurbs for sale could very ewll be a red herring in reliability for a
high selling phone.

> And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
> available.

Perhaps because their return rate is horrible?

--
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Kurt

2007-04-17, 3:33 pm

In article < 0d6a23hm2csj05qqgblu
r08ra2gni6tsde@4ax.com>,
John Navas < spamfilter1@navasgro
up.com> wrote:

>
> The quality of _factory_ refurbs tends to be as good or better than new
> production.

My experience with most electronics (never had a refurbed phone, though)
is that the refurb units have had any problems they were prone to have
fixed. I've never had one go bad on me, and that goes from Nikon cameras
to Apple computers, and a lot in between.
New electronics, if they fail, usually do it well within the first year.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net

2007-04-18, 3:33 pm

On 17 Apr 2007 14:58:22 -0500, t@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

>
>Perhaps because their return rate is horrible?

Exactly my point.

LinkBot