Cingular cell phone service - the iPhone Widget List!

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the iPhone Widget List!

Oxford

2007-06-27, 12:33 pm

wow, already many apps / widgets for the iPhone and the thing doesn't
ship for 55ish hours! expect 1000's of these in a few months... they
really make apps on any other mobile phone obsolete!

http://www.iphonewidgetlist.com/

Those guys are sooooo screwed!

Learn how to make them fast, here:

http://webkit.org/blog/?p=87

Check the left side for the tools...

-

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

Oxford wrote:
> wow, already many apps / widgets for the iPhone and the thing doesn't
> ship for 55ish hours! expect 1000's of these in a few months... they
> really make apps on any other mobile phone obsolete!
>
> http://www.iphonewidgetlist.com/
>

Wake me up when u can get more than tepid gimmicky widget toys.

Here's some 3d Java racing games.

http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/200...-mobile-phones/

Notice how puny your iphone widget webapps look in comparison?

I'll give you a tip, if your phone if it cannot use client side apps
(and the iphone is severely crippled because it cannot) can not match
the diversity and capabilities of of other cellphones.

The iphone is a crippled phone that does not allow you to make use of
any of the thousands of free Java games and apps out there on the web.

* Having some white castle while tapping this out on my Opera Mini
Java browser.

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

asjbio...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Wake me up when u can get more than tepid gimmicky widget toys.
>
> Here's some 3d Java racing games.
>
> http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/200...-mobile-phones/
>
> Notice how puny your iphone widget webapps look in comparison?
>
> I'll give you a tip, if your phone if it cannot use client side apps
> (and the iphone is severely crippled because it cannot) can not match
> the diversity and capabilities of of other cellphones.
>
> The iphone is a crippled phone that does not allow you to make use of
> any of the thousands of free Java games and apps out there on the web.
>
> * Having some white castle while tapping this out on my Opera Mini
> Java browser.

whoops, the burger got in the way of my typing,

Point is though that java apps will always be better than any widget
toys.Just compare a desktop standalone app like google earth to a
webapp like google maps. Plus, since the market for java apps is a
multi-billion dollar one and worldwide, you can get free games and
apps on the web if your phone can run it.

iphones are severely crippled gadgets that will not allow you to run
the thousands of cool free apps out there.

* ewwww,,burger drippings!

Oxford

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Wake me up when u can get more than tepid gimmicky widget toys.

gosh, you are such a sore loser.

> Here's some 3d Java racing games.
>
> http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/200...riving-games-on
> -java-mobile-phones/

then port them over, apple has high end games for the ipod, not silly
stuff like your link above

http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/games/

> Notice how puny your iphone widget webapps look in comparison?

ah, and do you realize there isn't yet a single iphone in the hands of
an owner yet? but in 3 weeks there will be millions in use?

> I'll give you a tip, if your phone if it cannot use client side apps
> (and the iphone is severely crippled because it cannot) can not match
> the diversity and capabilities of of other cellphones.
>
> The iphone is a crippled phone that does not allow you to make use of
> any of the thousands of free Java games and apps out there on the web.
>
> * Having some white castle while tapping this out on my Opera Mini
> Java browser.

Your just very, very, very jealous of a more advanced phone. I can see
the anger in your posts. Just get an iPhone and make yourself happy for
a change.

-

Dr zara

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-E650EF.10530427062007@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net...
> wow, already many apps / widgets for the iPhone and the thing doesn't
> ship for 55ish hours! expect 1000's of these in a few months... they
> really make apps on any other mobile phone obsolete!
>
> http://www.iphonewidgetlist.com/
>
> Those guys are sooooo screwed!
>
> Learn how to make them fast, here:
>
> http://webkit.org/blog/?p=87
>
> Check the left side for the tools...

55 loooong hours. How will you ever survive?

Oxford

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

> * Having some white castle while tapping this out on my Opera Mini
> Java browser.

i like white castle in a blue collar sort of way. when you get done
being a redneck, check out Web 2.0 apps. It's looking more and more like
java has died.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/pr/20070611iphone.html

Oxford

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

>
> whoops, the burger got in the way of my typing,

if you had an iphone, that wouldn't be an issue :) (just totally kidding)

> Point is though that java apps will always be better than any widget
> toys.Just compare a desktop standalone app like google earth to a
> webapp like google maps.

yes, and Java / Google Earth works quite well on OSX, the same OS inside
the iPhone... hum... could there be a connection???????

> Plus, since the market for java apps is a
> multi-billion dollar one and worldwide, you can get free games and
> apps on the web if your phone can run it.
>
> iphones are severely crippled gadgets that will not allow you to run
> the thousands of cool free apps out there.

Hard to say quite yet, we are still 52 hours out, so while the iPhone
will certainly have MORE apps than any cell phones, the degree of
complexity in the first few months will probably pale in comparison for
around a year, then watch out. It's the whole iPod has 72% share, iPhone
has 72% share simply because it's a better product, and fully runs on
802.11, not some slow "cell" network.

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

Oxford wrote:
>

ROTFLOL!!!!

You give us some tepid looking little widget thingies and I show you
3D Java apps that I have running on my cell and you want me to use
YOUR puny little apps?

It's hilarious how far from reality some of you macnuts are....

Dude, i have several remote desktop java apps that allow me to log in
to my desktop and servers right now as if i'm right there. Widgets
won't do that.

I also have a Skype app that allows free calls. Widgets won't do
that..

I can name quite a lot of java standalone phone apps that can do
what stupid widgets can't do.

It's like asking ur desktop browser to suddenly work like Photoshop.

Like i said, complain to apple why they are preventing you guys from
access to so many free and useful apps and games by crippling the
iphone.

* tapping on my opera mini java browser while finishing up on lunch.

Oxford

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

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asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

> ROTFLOL!!!!
>
> You give us some tepid looking little widget thingies and I show you
> 3D Java apps that I have running on my cell and you want me to use
> YOUR puny little apps?

yes, but your 3D app was very primitive, not worthy of consideration for
a high end crowd. Plus it was a silly sports game for kids, not a
serious App.

You need to really realize what you are dealing with here, Bill Joy the
founder of Java is a HUGE mac fan, so Java Apps will be coming to the
iPhone, but not cheesy ones that only interest 10th graders.

> It's hilarious how far from reality some of you macnuts are....

No, most of us know the future, and have designed it. We just have to
deal with underlings that haven't yet caught up to our vision.

> Dude, i have several remote desktop java apps that allow me to log in
> to my desktop and servers right now as if i'm right there. Widgets
> won't do that.

Yes, and Apple has Remote Desktop that puts your Java App to SHAME.

http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

You don't seem to understand when you are dealing with the Apple world,
you are dealing with the pioneers of all this stuff, Apple sets the
rules for the world, others later follow, and that's been true for
nearly 32 years.

> I also have a Skype app that allows free calls. Widgets won't do
> that..

Not 51 hours before launch, but a few weeks after, Skype will run much
better on the iPhone than any other cell phone made.

> I can name quite a lot of java standalone phone apps that can do
> what stupid widgets can't do.

Then learn how to do it, Java isn't going to make you a single penny,
it's too old school, but Apple's WebKit could make you millions, IF you
put down your silly games and white castle hamburgers and move out of a
blue collar state.

> It's like asking ur desktop browser to suddenly work like Photoshop.
>
> Like i said, complain to apple why they are preventing you guys from
> access to so many free and useful apps and games by crippling the
> iphone.
>
> * tapping on my opera mini java browser while finishing up on lunch.

Great, and only getting about 20% of the functionality of what Safari
for the iPhone can do.

-

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

Oxford wrote:
> Hard to say quite yet, we are still 52 hours out, so while the iPhone
> will certainly have MORE apps than any cell phones, the degree of
> complexity in the first few months will probably pale in comparison for
> around a year, then watch out. It's the whole iPod has 72% share, iPhone
> has 72% share simply because it's a better product, and fully runs on
> 802.11, not some slow "cell" network.

dude, are you actually gonna get ANTHING right?

1. Your basic $49 phone actually can run more apps than the iphone
because it can run the thousands of java games and apps on the web
That's the power of having a standard. Apple decided to cripple the
iphone by denying u macnuts the right to use these resources

2. Many other high end phones have wi-fi, my dad's Nokia N95 for one,
which also has a GPS and a 5 megapixel camera. it also runs all java
j2me apps which means it againtrumps the iphone in terms of app
capability

Plus, did you see the hilarious fact that it takes 2 MINUTES for the
iphone browser to view websites???? My Opera Mini java browser spins
the same sites out in a few SECONDS.

Again apple denies you CHOICE becauae the iphone cannot run this java
app. I'm sure quite a lot of people would not want to spend ages just
trying to get to yahoo.com! :-)

* I think I'll pass by the library and look up 'Macnuts'.

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 3:33 pm

Oxford wrote:
>
> Then learn how to do it, Java isn't going to make you a single penny,

Since the mobile app business is a multi-billion dollar industry, how
exactly is this true? If you were at WCCD you'd know how disappointed
even the mac developers were whe n they heard there would be no sdk
for iphone. It's a SEVERELY crippled and expensive toy.

> it's too old school, but Apple's WebKit could make you millions, IF you
> put down your silly games and white castle hamburgers and move out of a
> blue collar state.

Uh, i'm a java server side guy. Java powers most of the largest
businesses on the planet including ebay, google. nasdaq, etc etc.
These are the guys with money and why Java is tops in popularity of
languages and in # of jobs.

> Great, and only getting about 20% of the functionality of what Safari
> for the iPhone can do.

Really? The reviewers don't think so..And opera mini will run flash
soon while safari will not.

Dude, give it up... ur obviously a non-tech guy and only a "fan" of
apple.

* geez..it's getting ready to rain here in NJ but i continue to post
on my FAST opera mini java browser.

none

2007-06-27, 10:33 pm

asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

> Since the mobile app business is a multi-billion dollar industry,

well the "app" business is not "multi-billion" so started off on the
wrong track.

> how
> exactly is this true? If you were at WCCD you'd know how disappointed
> even the mac developers were whe n they heard there would be no sdk
> for iphone. It's a SEVERELY crippled and expensive toy.

what is WCCD? if you don't even know what the largest Unix app
conference is called, how in the hell are you going to know what is
going on in mobile phone development?

>
> Uh, i'm a java server side guy. Java powers most of the largest
> businesses on the planet including ebay, google. nasdaq, etc etc.
> These are the guys with money and why Java is tops in popularity of
> languages and in # of jobs.

hate to break the news, but ebay, google, nasdaq, ect... don't "run" on
java. sure, sure there are some small aspects that do, but java is a 5%
story with these companies.

>
> Really? The reviewers don't think so..And opera mini will run flash
> soon while safari will not.

but the iPhone runs for 6-8 hours, what does your cell phone running
Opera mini run for? I'd rather have the FULL internet and FULL speed for
most of the day, than have a clunky kid internet for 3 hours and then I
have to turn it off.

> Dude, give it up... ur obviously a non-tech guy and only a "fan" of
> apple.
>
> * geez..it's getting ready to rain here in NJ but i continue to post
> on my FAST opera mini java browser.

Your primitive opera browser, the big kids will all use the iPhone.

asjbiotek@gmail.com

2007-06-27, 10:33 pm

none wrote:
> hate to break the news, but ebay, google, nasdaq, ect... don't "run" on
> java. sure, sure there are some small aspects that do, but java is a 5%
> story with these companies.
>

hate to break it to you, but you're an idiot. Google is Java and
python mostly in the backend ( a LOT of google's top tech guys are
from Sun, you know, the inventor of Java - I even regularly go to
google's NYC office for Java lectures), the nasdaq backend is mostly
Java and transitioning to real time java, and eBay actually has a Java
LOGO on the upper right hand side that says it's "powered by Java."

Please stop embarrasing urself you mcnut....

> Your primitive opera browser, the big kids will all use the iPhone.

Uh, ok. You go on with your delusions now. A phone that can't work on
office docs and presentations, cannot run thousands of apps and games
except for tiny little widgets, has a slow XXX browser...uh
sure....iphone is for "big" kids, but i'm an adult and adults need
mire than expensive CRIPPLED toys.

Kurt

2007-06-27, 10:33 pm

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In article <1182971095.009683.202190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
asjbiotek@gmail.com wrote:

> Like i said, complain to apple why they are preventing you guys from
> access to so many free and useful apps and games by crippling the
> iphone.
>
> * tapping on my opera mini java browser while finishing up on lunch

Opera Mini crashes my Treo. LOL
Can't wait for things that work. (Like my Mac does)

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Roedy Green

2007-06-28, 10:33 pm

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:53:04 -0600, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>wow, already many apps / widgets for the iPhone and the thing doesn't
>ship for 55ish hours! expect 1000's of these in a few months... they
>really make apps on any other mobile phone obsolete!

I have five beefs with Apple over the iPhone.

1. they won't tell me what CPU it has.

2. they won't tell me the clock speed.

3. they won't tell me how much RAM it has.

4. It does not run Java and Steve Jobs spat on Java when asked about
support.

5. they artificially locked the device into AT & T even though A T & T
has one of the worst data networks.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Alan Baker

2007-06-28, 10:33 pm

In article < fai883h0ct49q60kufds
3bi8p5o8k8puom@4ax.com>,
Roedy Green < see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:53:04 -0600, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>
> I have five beefs with Apple over the iPhone.
>
> 1. they won't tell me what CPU it has.

Why do you care?

>
> 2. they won't tell me the clock speed.

Why do you care?

>
> 3. they won't tell me how much RAM it has.

Why do you care?

>
> 4. It does not run Java and Steve Jobs spat on Java when asked about
> support.

"spat"? Please.

>
> 5. they artificially locked the device into AT & T even though A T & T
> has one of the worst data networks.

They did what was required to get the phone available.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

John W. Kennedy

2007-06-28, 10:33 pm

Roedy Green wrote:
> 5. they artificially locked the device into AT & T even though A T & T
> has one of the worst data networks.

Lots of phones have single-network versions (my Treo 650, for example,
is Cingular-only). That will take care of itself in time.
--
John W. Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why
it was her."
-- "Alias"

SMS

2007-06-28, 10:33 pm

Roedy Green wrote:

> 5. they artificially locked the device into AT & T even though A T & T
> has one of the worst data networks.

T-Mobile has an even worse data network. The GSM networks in the U.S.
are not very good for data at this juncture, and are far behind the high
speed data services offered by Verizon and Sprint. But Verizon turned
down the iPhone and then Apple went to Cingular. You get what you get or
you get nothing.

2007-06-28, 10:33 pm

"Alan Baker" <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-7D22F0.17005928062007@news.telus.net...
<snip>
>
> They did what was required to get the phone available.

word is that the iphone does not have any sort of carrier subsidy. given
that, i don't know why they went with a att exclusive- why not just make it
an unlocked gsm phone and let folks use it on whatever (gsm) network they
want?

Todd Allcock

2007-06-29, 4:33 am

At 28 Jun 2007 18:11:32 -0700 ed wrote:

> word is that the iphone does not have any sort of carrier subsidy.
> given that, i don't know why they went with a att exclusive- why not
> just make it an unlocked gsm phone and let folks use it on whatever
> (gsm) network they want?

Because then Apple would lose the benefit of someone else (AT&T) wasting
their ad dollars hyping Apple's product. And the benefit of a carrier
selling it for them.

Also, Apple needed the carrier support of a lowish-priced data plan and
backend for the "Visual Voicemail" feature.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

2007-06-29, 4:33 am

"Todd Allcock" < elecconnec@AmericaOn
Line.com> wrote in message
news:4684870e$0$1629
5$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> At 28 Jun 2007 18:11:32 -0700 ed wrote:
>
>
> Because then Apple would lose the benefit of someone else (AT&T) wasting
> their ad dollars hyping Apple's product.

given all the media hype, and jobs mastery of the media, i don't think
that's really an issue...

> And the benefit of a carrier
> selling it for them.

or maybe more carriers would have carried it...

> Also, Apple needed the carrier support of a lowish-priced data plan

i don't think edge is the main attraction of this phone, eh? :D

> and
> backend for the "Visual Voicemail" feature.

that's the one thing- seems like a relatively minor thing for an exclusive
carry.

and to counter all you points at once, rumors are that apple may go it alone
in europe... ;D

Mitch

2007-06-29, 4:33 am

In article <9%Ygi.4752$vi5.709@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>, ed
<news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:

> word is that the iphone does not have any sort of carrier subsidy. given
> that, i don't know why they went with a att exclusive- why not just make it
> an unlocked gsm phone and let folks use it on whatever (gsm) network they
> want?
>
The reason is that Apple wanted significant changes made to the way the
carrier operates.
There are quite a few changes in the system, in features, and in the
way the device is recognized, and the options they give users.

Jobs likes to set a goal (about the way the device will operate, who it
will be directed to, etc.) and then stick to it. That means once his
team decided on features, they needed a carrier that would agree.

You may also have read that several European carriers were at least
annoyed with the requirements. That may just mean that they didn't like
being asked to make changes to the system to accommodate phone features
before. It might also reflect the differences in the way that US
carriers do business.

Mitch

2007-06-29, 10:33 am

In article < fai883h0ct49q60kufds
3bi8p5o8k8puom@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
< see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

> I have five beefs with Apple over the iPhone.
>
> 1. they won't tell me what CPU it has.
Which matters how? If you have the SDK, you would be given specifics.

> 2. they won't tell me the clock speed.
Same -- if you had a reason to know, you'd check. If you are merely
curious, it's immaterial.

> 3. they won't tell me how much RAM it has.
No, I think they specified several things about this. They are
certainly clear about the space YOU are allowed to access.

> 4. It does not run Java and Steve Jobs spat on Java when asked about
> support.
Major exaggeration; and apparently, you're not willing to consider
anything like a reason.

> 5. they artificially locked the device into AT & T even though A T & T
> has one of the worst data networks.
Nothing 'artificial' about it; it's locked to the company they
partnered with. They did it to get the device made the way they wanted.
If they didn't, there wouldn't be any device.
Why do you have a problem with that? Sometimes, it's how things get
done!

Look, you know how music gets made? That's why people have to pay for
it -- because a lot of how musicians and performers are found and
developed and given the time and motivation to make music costs money
to do.

Todd Allcock

2007-06-29, 10:33 am

At 28 Jun 2007 23:53:07 -0700 ed wrote:

>
> i don't think edge is the main attraction of this phone, eh? :D

Not EDGE specifically, but the thing would be next to useless without
mobile data.

> and to counter all you points at once, rumors are that apple may go it
alone in europe... ;D

Only if they have to- they'd rather get carrier support.

Oh, and I ogot to mention an important benefit- reportedly Apple gets a
cut of the monthly fees from AT&T!

Kurt

2007-06-29, 10:33 am

In article <F2Ygi.137$GW4.81@newsfe12.lga>,
"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:

> Roedy Green wrote:
>
> Lots of phones have single-network versions (my Treo 650, for example,
> is Cingular-only). That will take care of itself in time.

You can get your Treo unlocked by Cingular.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

ZnU

2007-06-29, 10:33 am

In article <9%Ygi.4752$vi5.709@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
"ed" <news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:

> "Alan Baker" <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:alangbaker-7D22F0.17005928062007@news.telus.net... <snip>
>
> word is that the iphone does not have any sort of carrier subsidy.
> given that, i don't know why they went with a att exclusive- why not
> just make it an unlocked gsm phone and let folks use it on whatever
> (gsm) network they want?

My guess is that Jobs has sold AT&T on some more significant long-term
plan Apple has, and it'll take some time before we start to see that
seriously unfold.

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

2007-06-29, 10:33 pm

"Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in message
news:280620072314578
779%mitch@hawaii.rr...
> In article <9%Ygi.4752$vi5.709@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>, ed
> <news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
> The reason is that Apple wanted significant changes made to the way the
> carrier operates.
> There are quite a few changes in the system, in features,

what, other than visual voice mail>

> and in the
> way the device is recognized, and the options they give users.

eh?

<snip>

John W. Kennedy

2007-06-29, 10:33 pm

Kurt wrote:
> In article <F2Ygi.137$GW4.81@newsfe12.lga>,
> "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> You can get your Treo unlocked by Cingular.

As it happens, AT&T/Cingular has the best coverage in certain rural
areas where I need it. But it's not just locked; it's a
Cingular-specific model. Lots of high-end phones have carrier-specific
models.

--
John W. Kennedy
"But now is a new thing which is very old--
that the rich make themselves richer and not poorer,
which is the true Gospel, for the poor's sake."
-- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"

Mitch

2007-07-08, 10:33 am

In article <%gfhi.42753$5j1.5005@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, ed
<news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:

> "Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in message
> news:280620072314578
779%mitch@hawaii.rr...
>
> what, other than visual voice mail>
>
>
> eh?

Let me guess -- you don't know of any other things that the network
does differently for iPhone?

2007-07-08, 3:33 pm

"Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in message
news:080720070507400
715%mitch@hawaii.rr...
> In article <%gfhi.42753$5j1.5005@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, ed
> <news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>
> Let me guess -- you don't know of any other things that the network
> does differently for iPhone?

damn, what's with all these 'guesses' lately of stuff that i explictily ask?
yes, you 'guess' correctly- that's why i asked what else it did. sheesh.

Roedy Green

2007-07-11, 10:33 pm

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:01:00 GMT, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>Why do you care?
>
>
>Why do you care?
>
>
>Why do you care?

Because that gives me much more accurate idea that any glossy brochure
what the device in ultimately capable of.

>
>"spat"? Please.

He was quite derogratory.

>
>They did what was required to get the phone available.

Locking is not something done for technical reasons. It is a
restraint of trade trick.

See http://mindprod.com/bgloss/lockedphone.html
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green

2007-07-12, 4:33 am

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:53:07 -0700, "ed"
<news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>
>
>or maybe more carriers would have carried it...

By doing that they locked out sales from all of Canada. Perhaps they
are just skimming to get started. They are trying to spread out the
demand so they won't have to invest in manufacturing plant that will
go unused after the initial bubble.

Once demand slacks, they can offer an unlocked version to bring on the
next level of users.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green

2007-07-12, 4:33 am

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:14:57 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>Jobs likes to set a goal (about the way the device will operate, who it
>will be directed to, etc.) and then stick to it. That means once his
>team decided on features, they needed a carrier that would agree.

That sounds more plausible. Do you have any information on just what
had to change?
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

2007-07-12, 4:33 am

"Roedy Green" < see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:s88b93ds3b48fuj
36lb67o5vrqiirvqkqa@
4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:53:07 -0700, "ed"
> <news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>
>
> By doing that they locked out sales from all of Canada. Perhaps they
> are just skimming to get started. They are trying to spread out the
> demand so they won't have to invest in manufacturing plant that will
> go unused after the initial bubble.

apple doesn't do their own manufacturing.

<snip>

Alan Baker

2007-07-12, 4:33 am

In article < m28b93djqjv6kbkcr97s
tdrj4pshbaranv@4ax.com>,
Roedy Green < see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:01:00 GMT, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>
> Because that gives me much more accurate idea that any glossy brochure
> what the device in ultimately capable of.

Will it, now?

>
>
> He was quite derogratory.

Let's see the quotes...

>
>
> Locking is not something done for technical reasons. It is a
> restraint of trade trick.

Sorry, but nonsense.

>
> See http://mindprod.com/bgloss/lockedphone.html
> --
> Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
> The Java Glossary
> http://mindprod.com

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Mitch

2007-07-12, 4:33 am

In article < m28b93djqjv6kbkcr97s
tdrj4pshbaranv@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
< see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

>
> Locking is not something done for technical reasons. It is a
> restraint of trade trick.
No, it's a product development trick.
It causes no restraint of trade in any category; it doesn't affect any
other devices or what customers can do over networks, even with the
same carrier.
You could call it an arbitrary limitation, or you can call it a
limitation for good strategic reasons, but restraint of trade is not
one of the reasons.

In this case, Apple was very specific: they had some ideas they wanted
to get developed. In order to do those, they needed changes in the
carrier's system. Cingular agreed but they wanted exclusivity.

You could certainly argue that the insistence to get those features
into the product limits their growth. Apple isn't as concerned with
growth as you are. Apple, as a company, cares a lot more about making
the product as good as they can get it.
So they might be small things that make it different; things many
people wouldn't even notice. That doesn't matter; making it better
anyway is what matters. So many people pooh-poohed this product over
the past few months because most features aren't new to the industry.
What?
One side is arguing that Apple needs to develop all-new stuff, another
side arguing that it has to be compatible with all existing stuff,
another arguing it apparently angry it doesn't have feature X, and
another side arguing that it has to be totally open and encompassing
every top feature of all smart phones. Some of those are even the same
person, and some of them are arguing that everything else that has been
made before is better, even against direct and specific evidence that
proves that idea totally wrong.

Roedy Green

2007-07-12, 10:33 pm

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On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:15:19 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>No, it's a product development trick.
In this case it may be, but in general, locking is purely to lock
customers in. It is a dirty trick since many customers don't realise
they are being had until they try to change vendors. It is less of a
problem now cellphones are getting cheaper (not counting the iPhone).

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Mitch

2007-07-12, 10:33 pm

In article < fe8b935f1nkg3cbqhr3p
akc2cm8korf3d3@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
< see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

>
> That sounds more plausible. Do you have any information on just what
> had to change?

Well, I haven't built a list as I've learned them, so I have to
backtrack a bit:

http://online.wsj.com/public/articl...-euxzmjNFZTZhA_
2z8OBtD6GK900_200702
24.html?mod=blogs
relates these:
no Cingular (AT&T) brand on phone
no Cingular software, ringtones, and browser loaded
share a portion of monthly account revenue
selling through Cingular and Apple channels
simplified activation at home, through custom software
(I'll have to look for the technical alterations again.)

It is telling to me that the carriers are universally described as
taking the approach that they are the ones in control of both
manufacturers and end users, and that they should be.
That's just so backward, like the fuel makers telling both auto makers
and governments how driving should be done.

It also describes that Jobs was not very tactful about giving his view
to: that he spoke of the carriers getting between product and consumer
directly to carrier executives.
I perceive that Jobs simply forgets that people will respond to ideas
with emotions. I think he expects many to think logically instead.

It is important to see what Jobs does (and did) as having a particular
goal: he wants to build a specific kind of device, informed by experts
in design and UI, and focused as well as they can. It means that from
the outside, small issues look to have been given great importance.
That's a result of the focus of development, and it is a reason that
Apple's products (software, iPhone, iPod especially) seem to leave out
things. That inevitably means producing a device less than some people
want. But -- and this is the critical factor -- it also means that the
people it is really directed to will love it deeply and be very very
glad.
That's the difference: Apple is sacrificing making a pretty good device
that does many things, in order to make a great device that fewer
people are _extremely_ happy with. It's a corporate philosophy, and
it's why so many people in this group misunderstand Apple's decisions
(why didn't they make a low-end computer, why didn't they sell Mac OS
for generic PCs, why didn't they build iTunes and iPhoto and iWeb
together as one app, etc.)

Mitch

2007-07-12, 10:33 pm

In article < dbcd93dfgn9e0fv7uddt
23bk7dt4pjt42t@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
< see_website@mindprod
.com.invalid> wrote:

> In this case it may be, but in general, locking is purely to lock
> customers in. It is a dirty trick since many customers don't realise
> they are being had until they try to change vendors.
Don't they?
I don't know why a customer wouldn't know they are locked to a specific
contract, when they signed one made very clear to them. The monthly
bill even tells them when they are getting clear of it.

But, why would you claim they are 'being had?'
What are they not getting?

I don't think anyone is being 'had' just because they have promised to
use that carrier for 12 months or whatever. They have to use _a_
carrier, and it has to be compatible with their phone, and rates aren't
that different between carriers.

tavenger5

2007-07-31, 10:33 pm

-hh Wrote:
> On Jul 31, 6:36 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
> wrote:
> EDGE,
> everyone is
>
>
> You forgot to childishly say "Neener Neener Neener!".
>
>
> -hh

Seems like this entire topic is full of "my new iPhone is better than
yours! :-P " "No it's not!!" boo hoo

--
tavenger5
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