Verizon wireless - OK Time to upgrade my StarTAC, but to what? v265? SOHO?...?

Author

OK Time to upgrade my StarTAC, but to what? v265? SOHO?...?

2005-06-24, 4:55 pm

Yes I'm a diehard, I have the data kit and clip-on speaker phone, The
clip-on speaker phone I use all the time in the car as here are no
headsets (I've tried several) I'm looking at the Moto V265 and the
Kyocera SOHO KX1v.

What I want is
1) good voice call qualtity
2) able to get and hold a signal
3) speaker phone, eitehr built in or clip on
4) added phone book functionality for more speed dial numbers adn add
voice dialing and commands

I keep the StarTAC mostly because I can't find anything with as good
sound quality and speaker phone. I want analoge so I can get signal in
"pink" areas of the map, Way upstate NY, VT and ME

What I'd like is to be able to assign a different speed dial numbers to
the seperate phone numbers in my contacts list instead of just the
primary number but don't know if any phone does that, do they? I think
the Kyocera might. The corelary would be adding voice command dialing
and ringers to individual numbers. The StarTAC will only dial the
primary number of a contact as the speed dial. And they are a PITA to
setup as if as teh speed dial number is the memory location

Does the v265 allow multiple numbers per contact? The guy at the
Verizon store said no but when I downloaded and read the manule looks
like there is a Settings option to show multiple numbers per contact.
but no other mention of setup or use

I really like being able to toggle between vibrate and ring mode
directly, Looks like the Kyocera's "Private Mode" will let me do that
but I don't see anything in the v265, I think the closest I can do is
program a custome key to put my into the ringer settings and set it
from there without making noise

What I'd like is a decent speaker phone, looks like the v265 will let
me keep the speaker phone on and use voice commands but not the
Kyocera. Anybody know how wither of these work when left open in the
car?

On the v265 it looks like I can only turn positioning on or off but in
the Kyocera I can have it on, on only for 911 calls or off. Is that
right?

I also briefly considered the LG 6100 but read some bad reviews that
reception was not the best.

Anything else I should really look at? Seems the nubmer of tri-mode
phones is dwindling and when I ask for a speaker phone it really
narrows the field. Parking a car on the streets of NY I don't want to
have a built in speaker phone

Appreciate the input

Larry W4CSC

2005-06-25, 6:55 am

"jt" <jeeptop2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1119619474.405945.146870@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

quote:

> Appreciate the input
>

Can you afford to switch to a phone that transmits 150-200 milliwatts of RF
power instead of your Startac's 600 milliwatts in the pink zone? They keep
turning the max power output of the phones down for the city folks to keep
them from hitting too many cells....to the detriment of the rural users, as
usual, of course.

2005-06-25, 9:55 am

Good question but then if I find the new phone doesn't work a call to
customer service to swap the ESN bak is simple but.

In any event it was my understanding that with CDMA the tower
controlled the phones output.

Where do you find the power output stats? Does it differentiate between
AMPS and CDMA output?

Larry W4CSC

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

"jt" <jeeptop2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1119697491.110164.51770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

quote:

> In any event it was my understanding that with CDMA the tower
> controlled the phones output.

The cell does set the power level of your transmitter so that all the
sharing phones on that channel arrive at the cell with fairly level signals
so the sharing will function without overloading the receiver. However,
when you are the guy in the fringe, the tower keeps jacking up your
transmitter's power to compensate as you get farther away. The problem
comes when you bump up against the power limit the company has set into the
phone to keep you from having too much range, jamming other cells. Further
away, your Startac keeps upping its power to the 600mw limit. The new
phone will bump that limit at 1/3 or less of that power level, and the
calls soon drop as it doesn't find you. The Startac simply has more range
because it has a transmitter than can put out three times the power.

This is also why your battery doesn't last long in the fringe area. Close
to the cell, the transmitter hardly uses more power than the audio
amplifier driving the headphone. Farther away, the transmitter starts to
draw more power from the little battery as its output increases.

quote:

>
> Where do you find the power output stats? Does it differentiate between
> AMPS and CDMA output?
>
>

I'm not sure what the procedure is on the Startac. The Motorola V60i will
activate its complex status screens if you press MENU MENU and the button
to the left of the MENU button. The CDMA status screen is far different
from the AMPS screen.

Ah, here it is. This is a map of what the numbers on the test mode display
of the V60 series means. It may, or may not, be useful for your Startac.

Call Status Mode - CDMA

AAA BB C DD EEE
FFF GGG H III JJ
KKK LL MM.MM N
OOO PP Q R

AAA = PN of strongest active pilot
BBB = Ec/Io of strongest active pilot
CCC = Number of pilots in active set
DD = Number of pilots in neighbor set
EEE = Current RF channel
FFF = PN of strongest neighbor pilot
GGG = Ec/Io of strongest neighbor pilot
H = Number of pilots in candidate set
III = Call processing state
JJ = Last call indicator
KKK = Current RF RSSI in dBm
LL = Current transmit power in dBm (N/A if idle)
MM.MM = Frame error rate
N = Dropped call counter
OOO = Current service option
PP = Current SID
Q = Current NID
R = Call counter

Call Status Mode - Analog

AAA BBB X 1 384
CCC DDD X IDL NI
XXXX XXX X XXX 0
0 20 X XXX 0

AAA = Current channel
BBB = Word syncs
CCC = RSSI
DDD = Bad words

On your Moto debug field test screen, the "C," as in the 13C199 you
report, is how Moto differentiates Cellular from PCS on tri-mode
handsets. So, "13C199" indicates a neighbor list of 13 PNs on the
current CDMA RF channel of CEL 199. CEL 199 is A-side, BTW.

Cellular A preferred primary CDMA RF channel: CEL 283
Cellular A preferred secondary CDMA RF channel: CEL 691
Cellular B preferred primary CDMA RF channel: CEL 384
Cellular B preferred secondary CDMA RF channel: CEL 777

PCS A CDMA RF channels: PCS 0025, 0050, 0075, 0100, 0125, 0150, 0175,
0200, 0225, 0250, 0275
PCS D CDMA RF channels: PCS 0325, 0350, 0375
PCS B CDMA RF channels: PCS 0425, 0450, 0475, 0500, 0525, 0550, 0575,
0600, 0625, 0650, 0675
PCS E CDMA RF channels: PCS 0725, 0750, 0775
PCS F CDMA RF channels: PCS 0825, 0850, 0875
PCS C CDMA RF channels: PCS 0925, 0950, 0975, 1000, 1025, 1050, 1075,
1100, 1125, 1150, 1175

On the CDMA screen, you're interested in LL, the transmitter's output power
in dBm, decibels above or below 1 milliwatt. If LL is 10, output power is
10 mw. If it's 20, output is 100mw. If it's an increment of 3, say 26, we
have 20 (100mw) plus 3 (200mw)(3dB doubles power) plus 3 more to get to 26
which is 400mw. Using 10dB (X10) or -10dB (divide by 10) and 3dB (X2) or
-3dB (divide by 2) you can get to any whole dB approximately in your head.
17 dBm is +20 then -3. +10 (10mw)...+10 more (100mw)...-3 (100mw/2 = 50mw)
See?

The other useful data on this page is the REAL level of the cell at your
phone's antenna. It's KKK in negative dBm. As this number gets higher,
the cell's signal is weaker...negative dB below a milliwatt. -70 dBm is
near full scale on the bar graph s-meter. -90 dBm is about 1 bar. -94 dBm
is where my V60i becomes unreliable. -108 dBm, unfortunately, is where the
stupid programming starts looking for greener pastures on another carrier.
Between -94 and -108 is where you have no service until it searches,
providing, of course, it is ALLOWED to search, which it mostly is not any
more. If the search finds a -100 dBm unusable signal from your home
carrier, it locks onto that signal so you can't use your phone, which
sucks. Unlike the stupid bar graph which means nothing, KKK lets you see
where the hotspots are in a fringe area so you can try standing in that
spot for service.

While looking for the screen status maps on my hard drive, I found this
tidbit of info on your Startac that may be useful. It's the pinout of the
big connector:

I assume *NO* responsibility
1) GND Connected with 22pf to pin 3
2) RF out
3) GND Connected with 33 pf to pin 8, 33 pf to pin 1, 33 pf to pin 7
4) BAT_FDBAK
5) MAN_TEST connected with 10k to L275
6) RS232_TX - connected to MCU SPI bus
7) RS232_RX - connected to MCU SPI bus
8) AUDIO_IN
9) AUDIO_OUT
10) GNDA (Ground reference) Connected with 33 pf to pin 13, 33 pf to
pin 14
11) UPLINK -|
12) DOWNLINK -|- DSC bus connected to the BIC
13) DSC_EN_B -|
14) EXT_B+
15) GND

A little coax to a real cellphone car antenna from 2 hot and 3 ground would
make the Startac like a broadcast station...(c;

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.

GeorgeB

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

On 25 Jun 2005 04:04:51 -0700, "jt" <jeeptop2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

quote:

>In any event it was my understanding that with CDMA the tower
>controlled the phones output.

I'll be very interested to see good information here; my understanding
is that the phone selects output power based on its input signal from
the tower, so indirectly there is a tower component. Experts; does
the tower command a level?

quote:

>Where do you find the power output stats? Does it differentiate between
>AMPS and CDMA output?

In the "old days", it was in the manuals. Analog mode does (did) not
have the capability of having its power altered; the high power units
including, I think, the StarTAC 7868W, are 600mW. My StarTAC manual
does not have a specification page. New phones are, AFAIK, either
200mW or 300mW.

George

Larry W4CSC

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

GeorgeB <nospam@att.net> wrote in
news:hsmqb1l120n7mme
mi8a03jtaj747agqv17@
4ax.com:

quote:

> I'll be very interested to see good information here; my understanding
> is that the phone selects output power based on its input signal from
> the tower, so indirectly there is a tower component. Experts; does
> the tower command a level?
>

The cell commands the level of your transmitter. It's very important to
"turn down" the strong phones on the shared channel to a level in reason
with the phones farther away to prevent the strong phones from swamping the
receiver at the cell. If they are all reasonably level, it works fine.

quote:

>
> In the "old days", it was in the manuals. Analog mode does (did) not
> have the capability of having its power altered; the high power units
> including, I think, the StarTAC 7868W, are 600mW. My StarTAC manual
> does not have a specification page. New phones are, AFAIK, either
> 200mW or 300mW.

AMPS phones all ran wide open because noone else was on your channel but
you. AMPS is a simply narrow-band FM radio system with a control channel
for signalling. The mobiles and bagphones ran 3 watts from a gelcell.

The carriers keep foisting lower and lower powered phones on the customers
to increase revenue-per-square-mile in the cities where the money is. The
lower-powered the phones, the closer the cells with lower and lower
antennas, the more simultaneous calls can happen. This keeps you from
hearing system busy signals. More demand, more revenues. Newer phones are
going into the 150-200mw limits, now. I don't think any run 300mw.

Of course, out in the countryside, the lower powered phones have only a
couple of miles range from the cells, which are much farther apart except
on major highways, mostly interstates. The result for users out here is
they no longer have smooth coverage they had on their 3W carphones, but
have little footprints of coverage within 2 or 3 miles of each widely-
spaced cell.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

Thanks for all the info.

What I hope to gain by upgrading the StarTAC is
built in speakerphone for car use. I use the StarTAC's clip on now,
it's great but

I forget to put it on and the phone rings.... I still havn't found a
headset I can use.

I want to be able to assign speed dial to all the numbers under each
name

I want to retain the ability to toggle in and out of vibrate mode (Fn+8
on the StarTAC)

I guess I give up the power but I get the newer technology CDMA so will
have access to more cell sites

The Kyocera SoHo probably comes closest to the feature set I want but
I"ve played with it a bit in the store and find the keys difficult to
use, that is press the right one.

quote:

>From what I've seen the Moto v710 and v265 will only let me assign

speed dial to the primary number. Plus one of teh Verizon TEcs told me
that the v265 comes back more than almost anyother phone (because it is
more popular?) and the v710.

I am actually at this point leaning towards the LG-vx-6100, hasn't
gotten the best reviews performance wise but I'm in New York City 90%
of the time so don't think that is too much of an issue. I like the
interface better than the others and, who knows, I might use the
camera. I can always through my old MicroTAC Elite with the car charger
into the glove box.

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

quote:

>From what I've seen the Moto v710 and v265 will only let me assign

CharlesH

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

Larry W4CSC wrote:

quote:

> The other useful data on this page is the REAL level of the cell at your
> phone's antenna. It's KKK in negative dBm. As this number gets higher,
> the cell's signal is weaker...negative dB below a milliwatt. -70 dBm is
> near full scale on the bar graph s-meter. -90 dBm is about 1 bar. -94 dBm
> is where my V60i becomes unreliable. -108 dBm, unfortunately, is where the
> stupid programming starts looking for greener pastures on another carrier.
> Between -94 and -108 is where you have no service until it searches,
> providing, of course, it is ALLOWED to search, which it mostly is not any
> more. If the search finds a -100 dBm unusable signal from your home
> carrier, it locks onto that signal so you can't use your phone, which
> sucks.

My Motorola 710 will handle a call down to about -102dBm, and WILL
search when it gets less than that. Sometimes in idle mode it may be a
bit slow to look for a new choice when down in that region, but if I
actually make a call, it will quickly "look for greener pastures". Don't
know if it is better hardware, or just more aggressive software, but the
"locks onto preferred but to weak too use" issue seems to not apply to
this phone.

CharlesH

2005-06-25, 4:55 pm

Larry W4CSC wrote:

quote:

> AMPS phones all ran wide open because noone else was on your channel but
> you. AMPS is a simply narrow-band FM radio system with a control channel
> for signalling. The mobiles and bagphones ran 3 watts from a gelcell.

At least here in the former GTE Mobilenet area of California, they
definitely used (and still use) the optional power control feature on
AMPS. It wasn't critical on AMPS as it is on CDMA, but it helped with
battery life (and with AMPS, you needed all the help you could get).

Humanetta

2005-06-26, 6:55 am

I don't trust LG phones. I recommend Nokia. It's not sexy, but the
Nokia 6015 has speaker phone, voice activated dialing, and it holds on
to signal for dear life. It's tri-mode, which is good for VT, etc. like
you said, but also good for when, say, there's a cell site problem in
NYC, and a cruddy all digital LG phone is getting no service, a
tri-mode will at least pick up analog (depending on what the site
problem is of course). Being a diehard Moto fan though, you may not
like the Nokia menu tree, because it's a lot different. It's also not a
flip, but I have the 3589, which is ugly, but hey it works!

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