Verizon wireless - Question about *228 option

Author

Question about *228 option

joeblow

2006-01-23, 5:48 pm

Since moving from Brooklyn to Manhattan (a total of ~3 miles in my
case) I noticed that my cellular reception was surprisingly worse on my
LG VX6100 phone. In my new location, I'd have to place myself near the
windows of my apartment to obtain reliable service. If I was in the
middle of one of my rooms, forget it. And this is in Manhattan! Let
me note that I signed on for my service in Brooklyn, originally.

I called Verizon customer service about this issue and the unusually
friendly and knowledgeable rep advised me to do the *228 option, choice
#2, which apparently updates the PRL (preferred roaming location). I
did this and it works like a charm. My reception is now much better
(more bars at every location in my apartment).

However, I have no idea what was actually done in the "updating" of my
PRL. I was always under the impression that wherever I was my phone
would automatically tap into the signal of the nearest transmitter in
my local area. But, the Verizon rep told me that my phone was still
"looking to Brooklyn" before I did the PRL upgrade.

Can somebody give me the technical explanation of what I've done with
the *228 #2 option and why it was so successful?

I find it very mysterious that such a useful option seems to be a
well-guarded secret by Verizon, in so far as their website technical
information is concerned. You'd think they'd have this sort of
information in a "USEFUL THINGS TO KNOW" clickable or something...

Thanks,
JB

The Ghost of General Lee

2006-01-23, 11:48 pm

On 23 Jan 2006 13:30:16 -0800, "joeblow" <joseph_blow16@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I find it very mysterious that such a useful option seems to be a
>well-guarded secret by Verizon

It's not a very "well-guarded secret", as it's usually the first thing
they have you try with *any* reception issues.

Quick

2006-01-23, 11:48 pm

The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2006 13:30:16 -0800, "joeblow"
> <joseph_blow16@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's not a very "well-guarded secret", as it's usually
> the first thing they have you try with *any* reception
> issues.

Yes, and plastered everywhere is the recommendation
that you do this at least monthly.

The PRL is the Preferred Roaming List. Your phone is
programmed with a "home" system/network/signal that
it will prefer over any others. After that it looks into the
PRL which is, in effect, an odered list. So your phone
can be receiving multiple useable signals at one time.
It needs to decide which one to use and this is not done
by signal strength. For each if the usable signals the phone
is receiving at a given time it looks in the PRL to get a priority
and then uses the most preferred signal. VZW's extended
network is made up of many (and constantly changing)
"partners" that VZW has an agreement with. That's why the
PRL changes fairly often.

With AC2 if none of the signals present are found in the PRL
you have no service. With the old AC1 you would be roaming.

In your case it's not so much that the phone was "looking
towards" Brooklyn but that it was ignoring the much better
signal available because it wasn't in the old PRL you had.

sort of....

-Quick

Lou@GoForIt.net

2006-01-24, 5:48 pm

Quick wrote:

> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>
> Yes, and plastered everywhere is the recommendation
> that you do this at least monthly.
>
> The PRL is the Preferred Roaming List. Your phone is
> programmed with a "home" system/network/signal that
> it will prefer over any others. After that it looks into the
> PRL which is, in effect, an odered list. So your phone
> can be receiving multiple useable signals at one time.
> It needs to decide which one to use and this is not done
> by signal strength. For each if the usable signals the phone
> is receiving at a given time it looks in the PRL to get a priority
> and then uses the most preferred signal. VZW's extended
> network is made up of many (and constantly changing)
> "partners" that VZW has an agreement with. That's why the
> PRL changes fairly often.
>
> With AC2 if none of the signals present are found in the PRL
> you have no service. With the old AC1 you would be roaming.
>
> In your case it's not so much that the phone was "looking
> towards" Brooklyn but that it was ignoring the much better
> signal available because it wasn't in the old PRL you had.
>
> sort of....
>
> -Quick

Liked your explanation. Thanks.

Lou

Dean

2006-01-24, 11:48 pm

I liked it too. A lot.

But.....maybe I didn't know as much as I thought I did.

AFAIK, all of NYC is solidly in SID 22, and there isn't anywhere I can think
of in the City where you would be on a roaming partner's network. Looking
outward from just about anywhere in NYC, SID 22 goes as far as you can see.
(Well, MAYBE in extreme SW Brooklyn or Southern Staten Island you might
catch a Central NJ SID, but it's a stretch). If one activated their service
in the City, why would a PRL update have any effect? Doesn't the PRL work on
SIDs, or does it go deeper than that?
____________________
____________________
_____
<Lou@GoForIt.net> wrote in message news:43D5FEA0.E4330B76@yahoo.com...
> Quick wrote:
>
>
> Liked your explanation. Thanks.
>
> Lou
>
>

617 Phones

2006-01-25, 2:48 am

An update of the PRL should have no effect on the phone's choice of
local SID 22 or another mature VZW SID in the area--they would both be
top priority. What might be more likely is that the old PRL preceded
the activation of the 1900 mHz voice coverage additions in NYC. If the
OP is located near one of these sites, this could make perfect sense.

joeblow

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

Dean wrote:
> I liked it too. A lot.
>
> But.....maybe I didn't know as much as I thought I did.
>
> AFAIK, all of NYC is solidly in SID 22, and there isn't anywhere I can think
> of in the City where you would be on a roaming partner's network. Looking
> outward from just about anywhere in NYC, SID 22 goes as far as you can see.
> (Well, MAYBE in extreme SW Brooklyn or Southern Staten Island you might
> catch a Central NJ SID, but it's a stretch). If one activated their service
> in the City, why would a PRL update have any effect? Doesn't the PRL work on
> SIDs, or does it go deeper than that?

I don't have any technical expertise in these matters, but I can tell
you that the *228 bit made a difference. While in Brooklyn (Cobble
Hill, near Brooklyn Heights close to Manhattan) I had superb coverage.
I signed on for the service initially using my Brooklyn address, if
that makes a difference. Then I moved to the lower east side of
Manhattan and had a lot more dropped calls, and my LG 6100 was much
more sensitive about where I was situated in my apartment. Unless I
was near a window my reception was lousy. The Verizon service rep gave
me the impression that my PRL would benefit from an update, as my phone
was still "looking toward" Brooklyn in some sense. I took that to mean
that if many viable signals were available for my phone, it would
choose the Brooklyn source even if it wasn't necessarily the strongest
signal (yet passed a threshold test or something). I then assumed that
my PRL update, done in Manhattan (don't know if that makes a
difference), updated my PRL list and made my first choice some closer
signal source in Manhattan. Even after reading some of the informative
replies here, I'm still not sure if that's really the full story. Even
the authoritative-sounding voices here end their replies with the
implication that their explanation is "sort of" correct. Despite this
*228 option being so well known to some, it seems clear to me that
nobody really knows precisely what the hell it's all about.

Isaiah Beard

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

joeblow wrote:

> I called Verizon customer service about this issue and the unusually
> friendly and knowledgeable rep advised me to do the *228 option, choice
> #2, which apparently updates the PRL (preferred roaming location). I
> did this and it works like a charm. My reception is now much better
> (more bars at every location in my apartment).
>
> However, I have no idea what was actually done in the "updating" of my
> PRL.

A PRL (Preferred Roaming List) acts in many ways like a network "map"
that the phone must follow to obtain service. Traditionally, PRLs only
made a difference when you were outside of Verizon's native territory,
hence the "roaming" part, because the PRL would tell the phone what
roaming networks were "friendly" and should be sought after, and which
networks should be avoided at all costs.

All that has begun to change now that Verizon is more commonly using two
different frequency bands (800MHz and 1900MHz) in the same area. The
PRL is now providing information about home areas too, and telling
phones where they can "also look" for coverage in an area where it would
normally not think to look.

> I was always under the impression that wherever I was my phone
> would automatically tap into the signal of the nearest transmitter in
> my local area.

That USED to be the case, but now especially with the advent of
America's Choice II plans, Verizon phones generally aren't looking for
anything that's out there anymore. Instead the phones are strictly
following the information in their PRLs, and if the PRL says something
isn't there, then the phone won't go looking for it, unless maybe you
try to make a 911 call.

> But, the Verizon rep told me that my phone was still
> "looking to Brooklyn" before I did the PRL upgrade.

That description is probably not entirely true. What might actually be
happening is that Verizon opened up a new pilot channel where you live
now, because the previous channels were too crowded (believe it or not,
crowded channels can also lead to poor coverage... it's a long
explanation, let me know if you really want to hear it). Your old,
out-of-date PRL in your phone didn't have any information about a
newly-deployed channel, meaning the phone would never bother to look for it.

The moment you updated, the phone instantly knew something had changed,
and could then lock onto the stronger signal.

> Can somebody give me the technical explanation of what I've done with
> the *228 #2 option and why it was so successful?

If the above explanation isn't thorough enough, let me know what
specifically you want and I'll see what I can do.

The short of it is that *228 puts your phone in a special online
programming mode, where it listens on a spacial data channel for a new
PRL (that network "map" I described earlier). If there's a newe version
than the copy it has stored in memory, it downloads the new copy while
you're waiting on the line and uses that new version from that point on.

> I find it very mysterious that such a useful option seems to be a
> well-guarded secret by Verizon, in so far as their website technical
> information is concerned. You'd think they'd have this sort of
> information in a "USEFUL THINGS TO KNOW" clickable or something...

It's not on the website, but it seems like every time I call 611 to make
a plan change or add or remove a feature, I get reminded to do a *228
regularly. It looks like the CS reps can also find out the date you
last did a *228. It must be displayed somewhere along with account details.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

George

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

Isaiah Beard wrote:

>
>
>
>
> It's not on the website, but it seems like every time I call 611 to make
> a plan change or add or remove a feature, I get reminded to do a *228
> regularly. It looks like the CS reps can also find out the date you
> last did a *228. It must be displayed somewhere along with account
> details.
>

Its generally posted in three different places in every store and a
notice seems to be included with each monthly statement. And about 6
months ago I got a text message asking me to do it (I don't know if
everyone got it or specific phones like mine that hadn't been updated
for a long time.

Richard Ness

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

There are a few here who know PRECISELY "what the hell it's all about"...
It is actually very simple - pay attention please.

A PRL is simply a look-up table loaded into the phone. Telling it what
carrier to use, under what circumstance and with what priority.

Every cell system is assigned a SID (system ID), which each cell site on that
system 'broadcasts'. You phone picks up this signal and the signal tells the
phone if it is 'home' or using another system 'roam'. When at HOME, the PRL
is NOT used. (Unless the phone goes no service for some reason)

Nowadays, with nationwide calling plans and 'no roaming' plans it became more
complicated. The phone needed to know WHICH system to use when it was away
from home. Not only to avoid racking up charges to you, but to use the carrier that
had signed an agreement with your home carrier - saving YOUR carrier money also.
Thus, the PRL was born.

So, you leave your home system. The phone simply looks at the PRL table for the
SIDs it is currently receiving, finds the one with the highest priority out of the ones it
'sees' and that is the one it registers on and uses.

As to your Brooklyn/Manhattan discussion - if the SID was the same in BOTH places
which it is (SID 22??) - the PRL and *228 would in fact make zero, zip, nada difference.
The phone, unless it is roaming, doesn't use the PRL. If it was going in and out of service
maybe... You possibly had what is called a 'placebo effect'...

BTW, many of the VZW reps don't have a clue just what a PRL is... or it is easier to throw
customers a *228 'red herring' than get to the real problem.

"joeblow" <joseph_blow16@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1138216648.897506.230570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dean wrote:
>
>
> I don't have any technical expertise in these matters, but I can tell
> you that the *228 bit made a difference. While in Brooklyn (Cobble
> Hill, near Brooklyn Heights close to Manhattan) I had superb coverage.
> I signed on for the service initially using my Brooklyn address, if
> that makes a difference. Then I moved to the lower east side of
> Manhattan and had a lot more dropped calls, and my LG 6100 was much
> more sensitive about where I was situated in my apartment. Unless I
> was near a window my reception was lousy. The Verizon service rep gave
> me the impression that my PRL would benefit from an update, as my phone
> was still "looking toward" Brooklyn in some sense. I took that to mean
> that if many viable signals were available for my phone, it would
> choose the Brooklyn source even if it wasn't necessarily the strongest
> signal (yet passed a threshold test or something). I then assumed that
> my PRL update, done in Manhattan (don't know if that makes a
> difference), updated my PRL list and made my first choice some closer
> signal source in Manhattan. Even after reading some of the informative
> replies here, I'm still not sure if that's really the full story. Even
> the authoritative-sounding voices here end their replies with the
> implication that their explanation is "sort of" correct. Despite this
> *228 option being so well known to some, it seems clear to me that
> nobody really knows precisely what the hell it's all about.
>

Richard Ness

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

Just SID.... (and analog/digital)

"Dean" <dean173@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kyBBf.4447$Jn1.4158@trndny01...
>I liked it too. A lot.
>
> But.....maybe I didn't know as much as I thought I did.
>
> AFAIK, all of NYC is solidly in SID 22, and there isn't anywhere I can think of in the City where you would be on a
> roaming partner's network. Looking outward from just about anywhere in NYC, SID 22 goes as far as you can see. (Well,
> MAYBE in extreme SW Brooklyn or Southern Staten Island you might catch a Central NJ SID, but it's a stretch). If one
> activated their service in the City, why would a PRL update have any effect? Doesn't the PRL work on SIDs, or does it
> go deeper than that?
> ____________________
____________________
_____
> <Lou@GoForIt.net> wrote in message news:43D5FEA0.E4330B76@yahoo.com...
>
>

Richard Ness

2006-01-25, 5:48 pm

Multiple folks posted concerning 800/1900.
This is, of course a possibility. That is - IF the 1900
sites were broadcasting/using a different SID than the 800 sites.
Which I doubt.. I would think that they all use the same SID??

Someone else also discussed pilot channels.
Again, the PRL only has SIDs (and analog/digital) values in it.
If a new pilot channel was added, it'd be using the same SID as the others,
thus the PRL wouldn't come into play.

"Richard Ness" <richard.no@damnspam.nessnet.com> wrote in message news:W- adnS_2iMW1e0renZ2dnU
VZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> There are a few here who know PRECISELY "what the hell it's all about"...
> It is actually very simple - pay attention please.
>
> A PRL is simply a look-up table loaded into the phone. Telling it what
> carrier to use, under what circumstance and with what priority.
>
> Every cell system is assigned a SID (system ID), which each cell site on that
> system 'broadcasts'. You phone picks up this signal and the signal tells the
> phone if it is 'home' or using another system 'roam'. When at HOME, the PRL
> is NOT used. (Unless the phone goes no service for some reason)
>
> Nowadays, with nationwide calling plans and 'no roaming' plans it became more
> complicated. The phone needed to know WHICH system to use when it was away
> from home. Not only to avoid racking up charges to you, but to use the carrier that
> had signed an agreement with your home carrier - saving YOUR carrier money also.
> Thus, the PRL was born.
>
> So, you leave your home system. The phone simply looks at the PRL table for the
> SIDs it is currently receiving, finds the one with the highest priority out of the ones it
> 'sees' and that is the one it registers on and uses.
>
> As to your Brooklyn/Manhattan discussion - if the SID was the same in BOTH places
> which it is (SID 22??) - the PRL and *228 would in fact make zero, zip, nada difference.
> The phone, unless it is roaming, doesn't use the PRL. If it was going in and out of service
> maybe... You possibly had what is called a 'placebo effect'...
>
> BTW, many of the VZW reps don't have a clue just what a PRL is... or it is easier to throw
> customers a *228 'red herring' than get to the real problem.
>
>
>
>
> "joeblow" <joseph_blow16@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1138216648.897506.230570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Robert

2006-01-25, 11:48 pm

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:57:17 -0800, "Richard Ness"
<richard.no@damnspam.nessnet.com> wrote:

>
>BTW, many of the VZW reps don't have a clue just what a PRL is... or it is easier to throw
>customers a *228 'red herring' than get to the real problem.
>
Those reps wouldn't do that to me! :)

Richard - do you have any knowledge about what happens during the OTA
with the *228 / option 1? If you do, just a quick summary of some of
the things it changes. The reason I ask is that I can force my Razr
to CDMA only mode (no hybrid and no EVDO) but that always re-enables
it.

CharlesH

2006-01-26, 2:48 am

Richard Ness wrote:
> Multiple folks posted concerning 800/1900.
> This is, of course a possibility. That is - IF the 1900
> sites were broadcasting/using a different SID than the 800 sites.
> Which I doubt.. I would think that they all use the same SID??
>
> Someone else also discussed pilot channels.
> Again, the PRL only has SIDs (and analog/digital) values in it.
> If a new pilot channel was added, it'd be using the same SID as the others,
> thus the PRL wouldn't come into play.

PRL's also have an "acquisition table", and each PRL entry, in addition
to the SID and NID (network ID), has a pointer to an entry in the
acquisition table, which tells it what channels ("carriers") to listen
on to "acquire" that system. There are usually multiple CDMA carriers on
both the cellular and (if PCS is being used in the area) PCS bands. If
new carriers are added to the acquisition table entry for that SID, the
phone won't know to go look for them. This is particular true of PCS. Or
it might pick some overloaded carrier and not know about a better choice.

Furthermore, a given SID can be divided into multiple network IDs (NID),
and the PRL can reason over those, too. The phone may prefer cells sites
of one NID in the same SID over another, and VZW may have shuffled the
NIDs in the system, leaving your phone trying to lock onto some distant
site and ignoring the closer one.

So an updated PRL *can* make a difference even if one never leaves one's
home SID.

Dean

2006-01-26, 5:48 pm

Interesting. Learned a lot from this thread so far.

But I'm still confused about one thing. Another post said the phone doesn't
use the PRL at all unless you're out of your home area. What's the deal
there?

Dean
____________________
____________________

"CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
news:UXYBf.15952$Jd.401@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> Richard Ness wrote:
>
> PRL's also have an "acquisition table", and each PRL entry, in addition to
> the SID and NID (network ID), has a pointer to an entry in the acquisition
> table, which tells it what channels ("carriers") to listen on to "acquire"
> that system. There are usually multiple CDMA carriers on both the cellular
> and (if PCS is being used in the area) PCS bands. If new carriers are
> added to the acquisition table entry for that SID, the phone won't know to
> go look for them. This is particular true of PCS. Or it might pick some
> overloaded carrier and not know about a better choice.
>
> Furthermore, a given SID can be divided into multiple network IDs (NID),
> and the PRL can reason over those, too. The phone may prefer cells sites
> of one NID in the same SID over another, and VZW may have shuffled the
> NIDs in the system, leaving your phone trying to lock onto some distant
> site and ignoring the closer one.
>
> So an updated PRL *can* make a difference even if one never leaves one's
> home SID.

joeblow

2006-01-26, 5:48 pm

Richard Ness wrote:
> There are a few here who know PRECISELY "what the hell it's all about"...
> It is actually very simple - pay attention please.
>
> A PRL is simply a look-up table loaded into the phone. Telling it what
> carrier to use, under what circumstance and with what priority.
>
> Every cell system is assigned a SID (system ID), which each cell site on that
> system 'broadcasts'. You phone picks up this signal and the signal tells the
> phone if it is 'home' or using another system 'roam'. When at HOME, the PRL
> is NOT used. (Unless the phone goes no service for some reason)

Uhhh...in case you haven't noticed, the post on this topic by "Isaiah
Beard" (which makes much more sense for my case than your spurious
"placebo effect" explanation, thanks) flies in direct contradiction to
your claims here. I appreciate you taking the time to answer, but you
do not appear to be correct. Considering your somewhat smarmy "pay
attention please" avuncular undertones, you might want to reevaluate
your uber-confidence on these matters. But thanks anyway.

JB

joeblow

2006-01-26, 5:48 pm

Thanks! Now *that's* an explanation I can sleep tight with. Well done
Mr. Beard.

JB

Isaiah Beard

2006-01-27, 5:48 pm

Dean wrote:
> Interesting. Learned a lot from this thread so far.
>
> But I'm still confused about one thing. Another post said the phone doesn't
> use the PRL at all unless you're out of your home area. What's the deal
> there?

For current phones, that's not true. A CDMA phone will still consult
the PRL to obtain an acquisition table on its home market. This is
especially true in markets where Verizon has both PCS and Cellular
spectrum, and of EVDO-enabled phones, where the PRL will contain even
MORE info about which markets are EVDO enable and which aren't, and if
so, what the channels the phone should for it.
--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

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