Verizon wireless - [ RANT ] VZW "password" for customer service

Author

[ RANT ] VZW "password" for customer service

damon

2008-02-26, 10:33 pm

The last time I called VZW for customer service it was because my
daughter had sent me a picture file and I didn't know how/if I could
open it.

At some point in the 12 or so years we've been with VZW, my wife must
have created a password for our account, but on no account would VZW
help me see the picture file if I couldn't tell them this password.

Who does this help? The CS rep actually asked me if I wanted her to
call my wife and ask her for the password! It was not worth
interrupting my wife at work just to see this picture, but seriously,
why do they need an account password to give me a tip on how to operate
a feature of the phone *THAT I BOUGHT FROM THEM* myself?

When I got home I got out my manual and learned from the absence of any
indication of how to do it, that my phone doesn't have the ability to
view pictures. The CS rep already knew which phone I had but she
wouldn't just tell me that it wouldn't work.

My wife has no memory of creating a password for our account, never mind
what it might be. Additionally, if it's my wife's password, and it
presumably protects her somehow, does Verizon really want her sharing it
with me and our kids just so we can get tech support for our phones? Or
should my wife be the only one who can call for help?

I hate VZW customer support!

"There's no reason for it, it's just our policy."

-- dbriley

Jbledsoe

2008-02-26, 10:33 pm

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:12:07 GMT, damon
<dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:

>The last time I called VZW for customer service it was because my
<crybaby>

>I hate VZW customer support!

</crybaby>

Just go to the store and change it. Big deal.

The Bob

2008-02-26, 10:33 pm

damon <dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:X80xj.26976$6h7.12147@trnddc04:

> The last time I called VZW for customer service it was because my
> daughter had sent me a picture file and I didn't know how/if I could
> open it.
>
> At some point in the 12 or so years we've been with VZW, my wife must
> have created a password for our account, but on no account would VZW
> help me see the picture file if I couldn't tell them this password.
>
> Who does this help?

The millions of folks who suffer from identity theft every year.

George

2008-02-27, 7:33 am

damon wrote:

>
> "There's no reason for it, it's just our policy."
>
> -- dbriley

Actually thats how they should handle it and I give them credit for
doing it. One of the ways to try to get around security is to state
"well I only need just this one little thing..." and then you can keep
on working them.

They did the right thing by flatly refusing to talk to you because of
the password that was requested by your wife.

damon

2008-02-27, 10:33 pm

George wrote:
> damon wrote:
>
>
> Actually thats how they should handle it and I give them credit for
> doing it. One of the ways to try to get around security is to state
> "well I only need just this one little thing..." and then you can keep
> on working them.
>
> They did the right thing by flatly refusing to talk to you because of
> the password that was requested by your wife.

No, you're wrong. Here's why.

You're correct that they followed their procedure, yet their procedure
makes no sense to begin with. They told me that I should also have the
same password as my wife, and so should my kids if they ever need tech
support. Sharing passwords with kids sounds risky, especially since
knowing the password is a gateway into all of the family account options.

Tech support should not be tied to the secure areas of the account.

How would telling me how to view pictures on a phone that I bought from
them compromise my wife's account security? Someone explain the risk of
helping me.

Why is tech support for my phone tied to my wife's account password?

It seems to me that they have generalized their security model to
include protection of information that does not and has never needed
protection.

The Bob

2008-02-27, 10:33 pm

damon <dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:lMkxj.13800$Sw6.12636@trnddc06:

> George wrote:
>
> No, you're wrong. Here's why.
>
> You're correct that they followed their procedure, yet their procedure
> makes no sense to begin with. They told me that I should also have the
> same password as my wife, and so should my kids if they ever need tech
> support. Sharing passwords with kids sounds risky, especially since
> knowing the password is a gateway into all of the family account options.
>
> Tech support should not be tied to the secure areas of the account.
>
> How would telling me how to view pictures on a phone that I bought from
> them compromise my wife's account security? Someone explain the risk of
> helping me.

The risk is that once they open the account to help you. you also start
making changes that aren't authorized.

>
> Why is tech support for my phone tied to my wife's account password?

See above.

>
> It seems to me that they have generalized their security model to
> include protection of information that does not and has never needed
> protection.
>

Thank the FCC- they just tightened up security requirements for all
telecoms. The line about going to a retail store to change the password?
Not a Verizon policy- the FCC mandated it.

damon

2008-02-27, 10:33 pm

The Bob wrote:
> damon <dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> amazed us all with the following in
> news:lMkxj.13800$Sw6.12636@trnddc06:
>
>
> The risk is that once they open the account to help you. you also start
> making changes that aren't authorized.

Why is tech support linked to the account at all? We're talking about
phone tech support here. If I asked for something "unauthorized" what's
to stop the CS rep from saying, "sorry, that's an account function" ?

>
>
> See above.
>
>
> Thank the FCC- they just tightened up security requirements for all
> telecoms. The line about going to a retail store to change the password?
> Not a Verizon policy- the FCC mandated it.

Did the FCC say tech support must be password protected?

They did not mention going to the store but thanks for telling me this.
It's an interesting twist. But going to the store would probably have
been a better solution, as I'd bet no one at the store would ask me for
a password before they could say, "Sorry, this phone can't view
pictures." It took me 1/2 an hour of reviewing my manual, once I got
home, to conclude my phone didn't have the feature to begin with.

I wasn't seeking to change the account, but rather just to use my phone,
the one they sold me, and they salesperson had said I could call 611 if
I had a question about my phone.

clifto

2008-02-27, 10:33 pm

The Bob wrote:
> damon <dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> amazed us all with the following in
> news:lMkxj.13800$Sw6.12636@trnddc06:
>
> The risk is that once they open the account to help you. you also start
> making changes that aren't authorized.

"Oh, God, I told him how to view a picture on his phone, now I can't refuse
to change his billing address and renew his plan!"

--
If they could invoke Dubya,
I can certainly call a jerk Hussein.

The Bob

2008-02-28, 4:33 am

damon <dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> amazed us all with the following
in news:_Xpxj.17297$Hd.8400@trnddc02:

> The Bob wrote:
>
> Why is tech support linked to the account at all? We're talking about
> phone tech support here. If I asked for something "unauthorized"
> what's to stop the CS rep from saying, "sorry, that's an account
> function" ?
>
>
> Did the FCC say tech support must be password protected?

The FCC said that anything to do with the account must be protected.
The ruling was extremely anal.

>

The Bob

2008-02-28, 4:33 am

clifto <clifto@gmail.com> amazed us all with the following in
news:fgnh95-5ru.ln1@remote.clifto.com:

> The Bob wrote:
>
> "Oh, God, I told him how to view a picture on his phone, now I can't
> refuse to change his billing address and renew his plan!"
>

Keep in mind the average IQ of the workers involved. Adding too many
layers of logic to a situation would cripple most of them.

George

2008-02-28, 10:33 am

clifto wrote:
> The Bob wrote:
>
> "Oh, God, I told him how to view a picture on his phone, now I can't refuse
> to change his billing address and renew his plan!"
>
Maybe you have never dealt with protecting data? One of the most basic
ideas is that you give no information because even little bits of
information can be assembled and used to obtain even more information.

damon

2008-02-28, 10:33 am

George wrote:
> clifto wrote:
> Maybe you have never dealt with protecting data? One of the most basic
> ideas is that you give no information because even little bits of
> information can be assembled and used to obtain even more information.

I'm familiar with security issues, and while your idea of providing no
information sounds reasonable, especially with fraudsters using social
techniques to wheedle more and more from a CS Rep, please tell me how it
applies in this situation? I wasn't looking for account information, I
was trying to get tech support.

And why is tech support tied to the account? No one has answered this
question yet. Here's another "basic" idea for you. Spend your efforts
on protecting what needs protecting instead of trying to protect everything.

But this is all moot if "The Bob" is right and the FCC requires
everything related to an account to be locked up.

So here's the next question-- why can't my wife and I have a joint
account? At the bank, we each have an ATM card. My card uses my PIN,
her card uses her PIN, but they both provide joint access to all our
accounts. Now, why doesn't Verizon use this model?

clifto

2008-02-28, 12:33 pm

George wrote:
> clifto wrote:
> Maybe you have never dealt with protecting data? One of the most basic
> ideas is that you give no information because even little bits of
> information can be assembled and used to obtain even more information.

So you're saying they actually shouldn't have answered the phone until they
got the password.

--
If they could invoke Dubya,
I can certainly call a jerk Hussein.

Reggie Dunbar

2008-03-05, 3:33 pm

Being annoyed for a password is better than annoying someone to correct a
bill thanks to a identity theft!

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ueydnfIa- _nrw1janZ2dnUVZ_s6dn
Z2d@comcast.com...
> damon wrote:
>
>
> Actually thats how they should handle it and I give them credit for doing
> it. One of the ways to try to get around security is to state "well I only
> need just this one little thing..." and then you can keep on working them.
>
> They did the right thing by flatly refusing to talk to you because of the
> password that was requested by your wife.

2008-04-01, 10:33 pm

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:27:47 GMT, damon
<dbriley5@DONTSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>And why is tech support tied to the account? No one has answered this
>question yet. Here's another "basic" idea for you. Spend your efforts
>on protecting what needs protecting instead of trying to protect everything.

Because tech support often involves changeing, or at least informing
of features on account. For example, you were having issues
receiveing a picture message. Was picture messaging blocked on that
account? That is a feature of the account, having nothing to do with
the phone that very well may have in some cases caused the problem you
were refering to. (admitadly, not in your case, but if the only two
answers are no or I can't say, it is fairly obvious what the can't say
answer is. )

>So here's the next question-- why can't my wife and I have a joint
>account? At the bank, we each have an ATM card. My card uses my PIN,
>her card uses her PIN, but they both provide joint access to all our
>accounts. Now, why doesn't Verizon use this model?

because of an ugly thing called divorce and individual responsbility.
They put the accout in one name and one name only to stop problems
before they start. "I don't care what hapened beween you and your
spouse. It is your account and you are the one responsible for it"

They don't want to be stuck with "who will pay the bill, and who's
credit does the unpaid bill go against" while the court decides who is
responsible for it. If it is your wife's account, it is up to her to
determine who can use it.

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