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Verizon is worse (Re: Cancelled Sprint)
|
|
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-17, 10:33 pm |
| And not even unlimited:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060726/1926251.shtml
- "unlimited data, for certain types of data"
"Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for
uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with
server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not
limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over
IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P)
file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or
dedicated data connections... We reserve right to limit throughput or amount
of data transferred, deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we
believe is using NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess in any manner prohibited
above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels."
Verizon will never get my business.
> Verizon - great prices starting at $79.95 for unlimited data - what a deal
> ............
>
> Chuck Palm
| |
| jim-g 2006-11-17, 10:33 pm |
| As they say guys, to each his own. I'm going to save $25/mo over
Sprintpcs plus no minutes used to call the four kids all over the
country. If Sprint had not overpriced their family plan for so long,
that would have been reversed. Buenas Dias.
Bill Marriott wrote:
> And not even unlimited:
>
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20.../1926251A.shtml
>
> - "unlimited data, for certain types of data"
>
> "Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for
> uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with
> server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not
> limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over
> IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P)
> file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or
> dedicated data connections... We reserve right to limit throughput or amount
> of data transferred, deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we
> believe is using NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess in any manner prohibited
> above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels."
>
> Verizon will never get my business.
>
>
>
--
make any Reply to Newsgroup as return address is not valid.
| |
|
| jim-g <nowhere@ether.net> wrote in
news:y6v7h.34793$QL2.31318@newsfe15.lga:
> As they say guys, to each his own. I'm going to save $25/mo over
> Sprintpcs plus no minutes used to call the four kids all over the
> country. If Sprint had not overpriced their family plan for so long,
> that would have been reversed. Buenas Dias.
>
> Bill Marriott wrote:
>
>
What about getting free PCS-to-PCS? No need for any minutes to talk to the
kids.
| |
| Mij Adyaw 2006-11-18, 4:33 am |
| See ya back here within a month.
"jim-g" <nowhere@ether.net> wrote in message
news:y6v7h.34793$QL2.31318@newsfe15.lga...
> As they say guys, to each his own. I'm going to save $25/mo over
> Sprintpcs plus no minutes used to call the four kids all over the country.
> If Sprint had not overpriced their family plan for so long, that would
> have been reversed. Buenas Dias.
>
> Bill Marriott wrote:
>
>
> --
> make any Reply to Newsgroup as return address is not valid.
| |
| Mij Adyaw 2006-11-18, 4:33 am |
| Yea, that is what he should have done instead of running to Verizon.
"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
news:5fqdnfVOEoghBcP
YnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@ad
elphia.com...
> jim-g <nowhere@ether.net> wrote in
> news:y6v7h.34793$QL2.31318@newsfe15.lga:
>
>
> What about getting free PCS-to-PCS? No need for any minutes to talk to
> the
> kids.
| |
| Isaiah Beard 2006-11-19, 3:33 pm |
| Bill Marriott wrote:
> And not even unlimited:
>
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060726/1926251.shtml
>
> - "unlimited data, for certain types of data"
Exactly the same reason I left Verizon. "The network" is overrated, and
not worth the price or the arrogance.
--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
| |
| Isaiah Beard 2006-11-19, 3:33 pm |
| Scott wrote:
> jim-g <nowhere@ether.net> wrote in
> news:y6v7h.34793$QL2.31318@newsfe15.lga:
>
[color=darkred]
>
> What about getting free PCS-to-PCS? No need for any minutes to talk to the
> kids.
Seeing as he's getting a family plan, chances are he's switching his
kids to Verizon too, which means they'll be IN and he'll get his free
minutes.
The Family plan on Verizon is well priced for voice service, no doubt.
I just hope his kids don't want anything to do with data. He'll get
raked over the coals if that's the case. But I wish him luck, nonetheless.
--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-22, 12:33 pm |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
> And not even unlimited:
>
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060726/1926251.shtml
>
> - "unlimited data, for certain types of data"
>
> "Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for
> uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with
> server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not
> limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over
> IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P)
> file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or
> dedicated data connections... We reserve right to limit throughput or amount
> of data transferred, deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we
> believe is using NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess in any manner prohibited
> above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels."
>
> Verizon will never get my business.
>
If that is what you are looking for .... I am sure they don't want your
business. EVDO is not a broadband solution for the above ... it could only
support a few users.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
|
| Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> If that is what you are looking for .... I am sure they don't want your
> business. EVDO is not a broadband solution for the above ... it could only
> support a few users.
....unless the number of cell sites *dramatically* increases and the
antenna heights come down so that fewer users share a great many more
EVDO channels. This isn't likely to happen with the existing approach.
(There's nothing wrong with EVDO, per se, it's just that each user needs
his/her own broadband channel)
g
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-22, 12:33 pm |
| g <wh@t.me.worry> wrote:
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
>
> ...unless the number of cell sites *dramatically* increases and the
> antenna heights come down so that fewer users share a great many more
> EVDO channels. This isn't likely to happen with the existing approach.
>
And it would become FAR more expensive. Wireless will be obsolete as a
broadband technology before long ... at least for the masses as the bandwidth
desired will not be possible without burning our skin ;-)
> (There's nothing wrong with EVDO, per se, it's just that each user needs
> his/her own broadband channel)
>
EVDO is intended for mobile technologies, not broadband porn slurpping.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
|
| Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> And it would become FAR more expensive. Wireless will be obsolete as a
> broadband technology before long ... at least for the masses as the bandwidth
> desired will not be possible without burning our skin ;-)
Sticking with the existing approach of trying to flood from a distant
central site definitely is out of the question. Increasing power to
solve the problem couldn't be supported by portable batteries and
antenna sizes.
It's going to be interesting to see what value consumers put on real
mobility for data devices. There are other ways to solve the problem and
enough hue and cry (and $) might change things, who knows?
>
> EVDO is intended for mobile technologies, not broadband porn slurpping.
I still say that EVDO isn't bad as a delivery method. It makes pretty
good use of the signal that is provided.. it works at a low signal level
for it's data rate. I don't think the other wireless contenders are
particularly better, though they may attempt to solve a different
problem eg. 1xRTT solves voice and WiMax etc attempt to solve higher
speed (and symmetric?) data delivery.
I completely agree with you that it's not going to happen with the
existing approach. Still it's fun to speculate...
g
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-23, 3:33 pm |
| Thomas T.,
What I'm looking for is:
+ to be able to use Orb to watch any TV channel I want at any time
+ to listen to any song in my 15,000 track music collection from anywhere in
the coverage area
+ to use Avvenue to grab a spreadsheet off my desktop computer whenever I
like
+ to use EzRemote on my Treo 700p to connect to my Windows desktop via
Remote Desktop
+ to browse to a web page and watch the latest Colbert Report clip
+ to upload the photo or movie I just captured with my phone cam to my web
server/moblog
+ to download a software program I've just purchased direct to my phone
No, I don't want to run a web server from my phone or replace my cable modem
at home. And I'm pretty sure I don't come close to 5GB/mo with these
activities.
BUT... What I do want is never to once think about how much bandwidth I'm
using or what I'm using it for. All these things I listed work great -- just
FANTASTIC -- on my Sprint Treo 700p. ALL of them are prohibited with
Verizon. Yeah, despite their ads showing some guy watching a streaming video
from the Web. Research it.
And I REALLY want to pay $15/mo for bona-fide unlimited. Not $40 for
limited. (Verizon "Core Choice" -- the lowest-cost plan you can get for a
Treo 700p -- is $80 and includes 450 voice mins. Their 450-min package by
itself costs $40)
from EVDO forums:
Sprint
======
EVDO Terms of Service: No specific restrictions other than unlawful abuse.
Sprint actually promotes streaming video and online game use.
Server-services, such as running a web server, are not allowed. Sprint does
state the right to cancel service for any reasons but there are no known
sources of Sprint sending letters for TOS violation if having the proper
EVDO account.
( http://www.evdoforums.com/thread1235.html )
For comparison, I am including the recently updated, full text of the
"unlimited" section of their terms. It's an anathema for any hobbyist geek.
It's CLEARLY limited in every sense of the word. Not just in the quantity,
either, but also in the CONTENT. You MAY NOT USE the network for ANYTHING
other that web browsing, email, and corporate database access. By "legally
purchased" songs, they mean songs you bought from/though Verizon services,
NOT songs you legally own that are on your home computer/network.
Do you really want to be looking over your shoulder for Big Brother? Are you
happy to have some computer deep in the bowels of Verizon analyzing your
activity? Checking your usage against "approved" IP addresses? Determining
that watching the football game from the airport qualifies as abusive usage?
Flagging your account? Sending you nasty letters? Taking away your dialtone?
Billing you for early termination fees?
> If that is what you are looking for .... I am sure they don't want your
> business. EVDO is not a broadband solution for the above ... it could
> only
> support a few users.
To me the point of an unlimited plan is not worrying about how you're using
it. Unlimited dialup is what lead to the explosion in Internet adoption in
the mid 90s. Unlimited wireless data is what makes my phone a joy to own and
use and not "just a phone."
If they don't want my business, then why not just come out and say it -- Say
it's 5GB capped service, don't call it "unlimited." Say you can read your
email, but don't show TV ads with people watching TV and streaming media.
No, they want to promise X in the big headlines and deliver Y in the fine
print. Premium price for limited service. Privacy intrusions. Outright lies.
If you really want to reward this conduct, to give your money to these
weasels, be my guest.
====================
====================
==================
VERIZON TERMS OF SERVICE:
UNLIMITED DATA PLANS AND FEATURES
Unlimited Data Plans and Features (such as NationalAccess, BroadbandAccess,
GlobalAccess, Push to Talk, and certain VZEmail services) may ONLY be used
with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing;
(ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate
intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer
relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). The
Unlimited Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose.
Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i)
continuous uploading, downloading or streaming of audio or video programming
or games; (ii) server devices or host computer applications, including, but
not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds,
automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing;
or (iii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data
connections. This means, by way of example only, that checking email,
surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting
corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file
sharing services and/or redirecting television signals for viewing on
laptops is prohibited. A person engaged in prohibited uses, continuously for
one hour, could typically use 100 to 200 MBs, or, if engaged in prohibited
uses for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, could use more than 5 GBs in a
month.
For individual use only and not for resale. We reserve the right to protect
our network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. We reserve
the right to limit throughput or amount of data transferred, and to deny or
terminate service, without notice, to anyone we believe is using an
Unlimited Data Plan or Feature in any manner prohibited above or whose usage
adversely impacts our network or service levels. Anyone using more than 5 GB
per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner
prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the
service of any such person without notice. We also reserve the right to
terminate service upon expiration of Customer Agreement term.
Data sessions automatically terminate after 24 hours of activity. Data
session is inactive when no data is being transferred. Data session may seem
inactive while data is actively being transferred to device, or may seem
active when it is actually cached and not transferring data. You MUST press
or click END or DISCONNECT button to ensure that session disconnects and
charges cease. Thirdparty applications may automatically reinitiate data
sessions without you pressing or clicking SEND or CONNECT button. For the
Palm® TreoTM 650, the only way to disconnect your data session is to press
the home key until you see “All” or “System,” then select the “Prefs” icon,
then select “Network” from the drop-down list, and then “Disconnect.” You
may be able to send or receive voice calls when your data session is
inactive. When this occurs, charges apply simultaneously for voice calls in
accordance with your Calling Plan. You are responsible for maintaining virus
protection when accessing service.
Unlimited PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry® Plans: These VZEmail plans cannot
be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets, or other data networks
except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit, unless
you subscribe to BroadbandAccess Connect; or (2) for any applications that
tether your device to laptops or personal computers other than for use of
the Wireless Sync or the BlackBerry solution, unless you subscribe to
BroadbandAccess Connect.
PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry Megabyte Features: Megabyte allowance and
charges for kilobytes over the monthly allowance apply to 1xRTT and EV-DO
data sessions, which are rounded to next full kilobyte at end of each
billing cycle. Only total of kilobytes transmitted above allowance each
billing cycle may appear on bill. You are responsible for all charges,
including all data sent and received and “overhead” whether or not you or
your recipients actually receive the data. Overhead is all data that is in
addition to user-transmitted data, such as control, operational and routing
instructions, error-checking characters as well as retransmissions of
user-data messages that are received in error. Any unused portion of the
megabyte allowance is lost.
Wireless Sync: Compatible wireless device required. The monthly allowance
applies only to 1xRTT and EV-DO data transmissions, not to voice or other
(Quick 2 Net or dial-up) data transmissions. When traveling outside of the
National Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Area, you may be charged at the
“other data” rate for data calls. Customers with devices that support Quick
2 Net service will be billed minutes of use or “other data” rate according
to their Calling Plan. In order to use Wireless Sync, your PC Monitor or
Wireless Sync Enterprise Server must be on and in a condition to receive
your corporate email. Wireless Sync software updates will be sent to your
device and will be charged as a data call.
The BlackBerry Solution from Verizon Wireless: The wireless data capability
of the BlackBerry device functions only within the National Enhanced
Services Rate and Coverage Area. Verizon Wireless NationalAccess service is
not available with the BlackBerry solution. With the BlackBerry solution,
the first 2 kilobytes (KB) of each email are initially received on the
BlackBerry device and you can simply request to receive additional 2KB
increments. Some email attachments (Microsoft® Office Word, Excel®,
PowerPoint®, Corel® WordPerfect®, Adobe® PDF, and ASCII text) are delivered
to the BlackBerry device when requested by the end user. ZIP file browsing
is available with BlackBerry Device Software v3.7. With BlackBerry Device
Software v4.0, an HTML Internet browser has been added to the service in
addition to full wireless PIM (Calendar, Contacts, Notes&Tasks)
synchronization when using the BlackBerry device with a BlackBerry
Enterprise Server.TM Graphics in emails and attachments are not delivered to
the BlackBerry device. When the BlackBerry device reaches its memory storage
capacity, email stored on the device will automatically be deleted from it,
starting with the oldest emails first. BlackBerry Desktop Software using
BlackBerry Desktop Redirector only supports Microsoft Exchange environments.
Up to ten POP3/IMAP and ISP email accounts are supported through use of the
BlackBerry Internet Service.TM
Verizon Wireless Calling Plans, Rate and Coverage Areas, rates, agreement
provisions, business practices, procedures and policies are subject to
change as specified in the Customer Agreement.
Last Update 11/14/06
====================
=========
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-27, 10:33 am |
| g <wh@t.me.worry> wrote:
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
>
> Sticking with the existing approach of trying to flood from a distant
> central site definitely is out of the question. Increasing power to
> solve the problem couldn't be supported by portable batteries and
> antenna sizes.
>
> It's going to be interesting to see what value consumers put on real
> mobility for data devices. There are other ways to solve the problem and
> enough hue and cry (and $) might change things, who knows?
>
>
> I still say that EVDO isn't bad as a delivery method. It makes pretty
> good use of the signal that is provided.. it works at a low signal level
> for it's data rate. I don't think the other wireless contenders are
> particularly better, though they may attempt to solve a different
> problem eg. 1xRTT solves voice and WiMax etc attempt to solve higher
> speed (and symmetric?) data delivery.
>
> I completely agree with you that it's not going to happen with the
> existing approach. Still it's fun to speculate...
>
My point is that if you are porn slurping or stealing movies, you should not
consider wireless as your source of bandwidth ... it is not intended for this
purpose and it is fully within Verizon, or anybody elses right to cut you off
if you do [not you specifically].
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-27, 10:33 am |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
> Thomas T.,
>
> What I'm looking for is:
>
> + to be able to use Orb to watch any TV channel I want at any time
> + to listen to any song in my 15,000 track music collection from anywhere in
> the coverage area
> + to use Avvenue to grab a spreadsheet off my desktop computer whenever I
> like
> + to use EzRemote on my Treo 700p to connect to my Windows desktop via
> Remote Desktop
> + to browse to a web page and watch the latest Colbert Report clip
> + to upload the photo or movie I just captured with my phone cam to my web
> server/moblog
> + to download a software program I've just purchased direct to my phone
>
> No, I don't want to run a web server from my phone or replace my cable modem
> at home. And I'm pretty sure I don't come close to 5GB/mo with these
> activities.
>
> BUT... What I do want is never to once think about how much bandwidth I'm
> using or what I'm using it for. All these things I listed work great -- just
> FANTASTIC -- on my Sprint Treo 700p. ALL of them are prohibited with
> Verizon. Yeah, despite their ads showing some guy watching a streaming video
> from the Web. Research it.
>
I watch streaming video from the web on my LG VX8300 all the time. Fully
within the limits of the TOS and I never have a doubt that I am within
acceptable usage.
> And I REALLY want to pay $15/mo for bona-fide unlimited. Not $40 for
> limited. (Verizon "Core Choice" -- the lowest-cost plan you can get for a
> Treo 700p -- is $80 and includes 450 voice mins. Their 450-min package by
> itself costs $40)
>
Treo is a different beast from the $15 / month plan as there is much more
potential to suck bits. If you want more, you need to pay more, and that is
indeed what the providers model is based on.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-27, 10:33 am |
| > Treo is a different beast from the $15 / month plan as there is much more
> potential to suck bits. If you want more, you need to pay more, and that
> is
> indeed what the providers model is based on.
Isn't that double-speak? With Verizon you're paying more and getting less.
> I watch streaming video from the web on my LG VX8300 all the time. Fully
> within the limits of the TOS and I never have a doubt that I am within
> acceptable usage.
Sorry, you're not in compliance; you're just not getting caught, yet.
See: http://www.pcsintel.com/content/view/1578/9/
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-27, 10:33 am |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
>
> Isn't that double-speak? With Verizon you're paying more and getting less.
>
>
> Sorry, you're not in compliance; you're just not getting caught, yet.
>
> See: http://www.pcsintel.com/content/view/1578/9/
>
Hmm ... Verizon supplies the links directly to me to watch video ... and they
show on my bill. I don't go to outside sites not supplied by the Verizon
pages. Still, it is allowed to my knowledge, at least as far as consumption
on the VX8300 goes.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-27, 3:33 pm |
| > Hmm ... Verizon supplies the links directly to me to watch video ... and
> they
> show on my bill. I don't go to outside sites not supplied by the Verizon
> pages. Still, it is allowed to my knowledge, at least as far as
> consumption
> on the VX8300 goes.
You're being imprecise. First you say you're browsing the "web" then you say
you're browsing links supplied "directly" by Verizon. And they show up on
your bill?
It sounds you're actually browsing "VCast" and you're paying for each video
you download.
My friend, that is NOT the World Wide Web. It's a teeny, tiny little island
that just happens to use web protocols. I can't even call it a "subset" of
the web, because VCast is not available to non-Verizon users.
And if the videos you view show up on your bill, in ADDITION to the $40 you
pay for "limited unlimited" broadband access... it only means you're getting
"milked." But yes, I *do* believe that you're allowed to use your connection
to give Verizon money for the content they decide to provide. (Good boy!)
Talk about Big Brother! Limited content, that you have to pay for! Gosh,
Verizon sounds suckier all the time.
There's a whole world of multimedia content out there that does not live on
Verizon servers and does not require a pay-per-view, or pay-for-anything for
that matter. You should look into it sometime ... with a provider who will
allow you to... SPRINT.
> Treo is a different beast from the $15 / month plan as there is much more
> potential to suck bits.
I don't see how it's different. It's $15 a month for unlimited data, whether
I use a Treo or a RAZR or the lowliest Sanyo. Nice, simple, and honest.
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-28, 12:33 pm |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
>
> You're being imprecise. First you say you're browsing the "web" then you say
> you're browsing links supplied "directly" by Verizon. And they show up on
> your bill?
They are in the VZW pages. The links point directly to CNN, NBC, etc. My
daughter even watch clips of "Pimp My Ride" from MTV. These aren't streaming
from Verizon directly to my knowledge.
>
> It sounds you're actually browsing "VCast" and you're paying for each video
> you download.
>
Indeed. The web is simply HTTP. I am browsing their provided content.
> My friend, that is NOT the World Wide Web. It's a teeny, tiny little island
> that just happens to use web protocols. I can't even call it a "subset" of
> the web, because VCast is not available to non-Verizon users.
>
VCast is not available per se, but much of the content is, as, to my
knowledge, much of it is just linked.
You are attempting to train the wrong guy. I know VERY well what a protocol
is and what the differences are between many of them (hell, I run my own
server as a hobby).
> And if the videos you view show up on your bill, in ADDITION to the $40 you
> pay for "limited unlimited" broadband access... it only means you're getting
> "milked." But yes, I *do* believe that you're allowed to use your connection
> to give Verizon money for the content they decide to provide. (Good boy!)
> Talk about Big Brother! Limited content, that you have to pay for! Gosh,
> Verizon sounds suckier all the time.
I pay just $15 / month. I was able to see that there were several video
downloads with a cost of $0, but it didn't say what they were [nor do I care].
>
> There's a whole world of multimedia content out there that does not live on
> Verizon servers and does not require a pay-per-view, or pay-for-anything for
> that matter. You should look into it sometime ... with a provider who will
> allow you to... SPRINT.
I used Sprint and they XXXXED ME HARD. So, I don't use them any more. Got
any more suggestions? I was their customer for 5 to 6 years.
>
>
> I don't see how it's different. It's $15 a month for unlimited data, whether
> I use a Treo or a RAZR or the lowliest Sanyo. Nice, simple, and honest.
>
No, I believe it is unlimitted VCAST with Verizon. Not unlimitted data. With
Sprint, I can not speak to it as I never used anything but Vision (well, I
used PowerVision for a day and their free content simply sucked).
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
|
| Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> No, I believe it is unlimitted VCAST with Verizon. Not unlimitted data. With
> Sprint, I can not speak to it as I never used anything but Vision (well, I
> used PowerVision for a day and their free content simply sucked).
>
Thomas,
I know you know what you're doing but now *I'm* confused...
I have a 700P which I use with Sprint service and various applications.
Among those applications are a web browser and a multi-media player
(Kinoma). I can point the these applications at anything I care to and
download streaming content. For example, YouTube works just fine.
Similarly any web page (modulo the presentation being nice for a small
screen), web cams, streaming this or that, podcasts etc.
While my Treo does have a builtin Sprint application that points at
Sprint content, I never use it, as I agree with you it isn't attractive.
When one says "VCAST" or "PowerVision" are we talking about the
underlying transport -the ISP EVDO service-- or some *content* or other
which happens to also be available? Doesn't Verizon offer the same
underlying ISP function as Sprint? If so, why is "free content" an
issue with either of them?
If we're only talking about underlying transport, isn't total data usage
an issue?
g
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-28, 3:33 pm |
| I find it a little creepy that Verizon knows/tracks how many videos you've
watched on the "open web" and actually itemizes them on your bill, $0 per
video or not. The point is -- as reported by MANY different sources ==
Verizon does NOT want users streaming media content to their phones. They
HAVE terminated accounts for it, their terms of service DOES specifically
prohibit it; and if you're getting away with it, it's either because you're
paying "per-view" for the content, or limiting yourself to whatever free and
pre-approved content is "on-network."
My beef with Verizon is based on the difference between their promotion of
"unlimited" vs. actual policy of "limited;" limiting what you can
legitimately do with the phone (i.e., no Orb); and pricing that is 2.5x what
Sprint charges. You've obviously got some personal grudge with Sprint, fair
or otherwise, which would prevent you from agreeing no matter what.
| |
| Todd Allcock 2006-11-28, 3:33 pm |
| At 28 Nov 2006 14:17:22 -0500 Bill Marriott wrote:
> The point is -- as reported by MANY different sources ==
> Verizon does NOT want users streaming media content to their phones.
They
> HAVE terminated accounts for it, their terms of service DOES
specifically
> prohibit it; and if you're getting away with it, it's either because
you're
> paying "per-view" for the content, or limiting yourself to whatever
free and
> pre-approved content is "on-network."
I disagree- if you're "getting away with it" it's because you are not a
problem in Verizon's eyes.
Seriously, do you think Verizon really cares if you download a YouTube
video once or twice a week? The "prohibited use" terms are there as a
loophole to let them kick out anybody who uses too much bandwidth on a
service advertised as "unlimited."
> My beef with Verizon is based on the difference between their promotion
of
> "unlimited" vs. actual policy of "limited;" limiting what you can
> legitimately do with the phone (i.e., no Orb); and pricing that is 2.5x
what
> Sprint charges.
Verizon, IMHO , is protecting their lucrative "enterprise" business who
pay $79/month for broadband access w/PC cards. They command the highest
prices because they have the fastest speed. More teenagers streaming
videos means less bandwidth for the high-end customers who will not be
happy with less-than-DSL speed.
Sprint is less restrictive in their terms, but they limit you as well-
take tethering, for exAmple. Do you really think they'll take your
$15/month service away if you check your e-mail on a laptop once a month
when you're stuck at a hotel without Wi-fi? No, but they'll use that
condition to leverage you into a "phone as modem" plan if you abuse it.
Either way, I'm happy with T-Mobile's $5/month unlimted data. It's terms
are the easiest to deal with- you can use whatever you're able to- they
put any restrictions they want in place at their server by blocking ports
rather than making a list of prohibitions.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-28, 3:33 pm |
| g <wh@t.me.worry> wrote:
>
> Thomas,
> I know you know what you're doing but now *I'm* confused...
>
> I have a 700P which I use with Sprint service and various applications.
> Among those applications are a web browser and a multi-media player
> (Kinoma). I can point the these applications at anything I care to and
> download streaming content. For example, YouTube works just fine.
> Similarly any web page (modulo the presentation being nice for a small
> screen), web cams, streaming this or that, podcasts etc.
>
> While my Treo does have a builtin Sprint application that points at
> Sprint content, I never use it, as I agree with you it isn't attractive.
>
> When one says "VCAST" or "PowerVision" are we talking about the
> underlying transport -the ISP EVDO service-- or some *content* or other
> which happens to also be available? Doesn't Verizon offer the same
> underlying ISP function as Sprint? If so, why is "free content" an
> issue with either of them?
>
VCAST and PowerVision are analagous. They are the EVDO plans they sell for
phone usage. They are not intended for all out data usage (i.e. tethering a
computer to the phone).
> If we're only talking about underlying transport, isn't total data usage
> an issue?
Both Sprint PCS and Verizon Wireless sell data plans; and indeed, they
recommend dedicated data cards for this service. These plans are more
expensive [as you might expect], but you have more ability to transfer data
without infringing upon the TOS. Even these plans are not meant for data
addicts [like porn slurping].
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-28, 3:33 pm |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
> I find it a little creepy that Verizon knows/tracks how many videos you've
> watched on the "open web" and actually itemizes them on your bill, $0 per
> video or not. The point is -- as reported by MANY different sources ==
> Verizon does NOT want users streaming media content to their phones. They
> HAVE terminated accounts for it, their terms of service DOES specifically
> prohibit it; and if you're getting away with it, it's either because you're
> paying "per-view" for the content, or limiting yourself to whatever free and
> pre-approved content is "on-network."
>
> My beef with Verizon is based on the difference between their promotion of
> "unlimited" vs. actual policy of "limited;" limiting what you can
> legitimately do with the phone (i.e., no Orb); and pricing that is 2.5x what
> Sprint charges. You've obviously got some personal grudge with Sprint, fair
> or otherwise, which would prevent you from agreeing no matter what.
>
What I am disagreeing with has nothing to do with Sprint or Verizon. EVDO is
not meant for unlimitted download [or upload]. It is meant to give broadband
performance to remote computing, but not for porn, warez or movie slurping, as
an example. The technology simply can't handle it and it should be no
surprise to anybody that the limitations of the TOS apply to this scenario.
YOu simply can not expect something for nothing, which is what is being asked
for here.
As far as your occassional connection to YouTube or any other site, both
Verizon and Sprint are known to ignore this if there is no "abuse" going on.
If you are worried about it, then you are probably abusing ... so get a real
data plan.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-28, 10:33 pm |
| You keep mentioning "porn slurping" and it's a little off-putting. One
doesn't have to be surfing porn to want to use their phone to its utmost.
You completely ignored my list of activities *specifically* prohibited by
the Verizon agreement.
One of my favorites is being able to use Orb. On a recent trip I was able to
watch The Tonight Show with Jay Leno while waiting for a flight at the
airport. That use is specifically and unambiguously prohibited by Verizon.
Another thing I do quite often is to log in remotely to my desktop PC with
EzRemote remote desktop software. Among other things, it lets me use the
actual Internet Explorer browser to access my bank. To my knowledge, no
phone/smartphone/pda browser is compatible with my bank's authentication
scheme. That use is again specifically and unambiguously prohibited by
Verizon.
From time-to-time I transfer files to my 700p using Avvenue. It could be a
spreadsheet or an MP3. A use not allowed by Verizon.
The performance is top-notch. So it does not appear that Sprint's
consumer-friendly policies have negatively impacted their quality of
service.
I understand what you're saying about Verizon "ignoring" it if it's not
significant use. However the KEY difference is that Sprint has no language
against these activities in its TOS, and Verizon does. Verizon *has*
enforced its regulations. You've provided no evidence that Sprint does
anything similar.
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rR1bh.3012$Yy1.1838@textfe.usenetserver.com...
> Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
>
> What I am disagreeing with has nothing to do with Sprint or Verizon. EVDO
> is
> not meant for unlimitted download [or upload]. It is meant to give
> broadband
> performance to remote computing, but not for porn, warez or movie
> slurping, as
> an example. The technology simply can't handle it and it should be no
> surprise to anybody that the limitations of the TOS apply to this
> scenario.
> YOu simply can not expect something for nothing, which is what is being
> asked
> for here.
>
> As far as your occassional connection to YouTube or any other site, both
> Verizon and Sprint are known to ignore this if there is no "abuse" going
> on.
> If you are worried about it, then you are probably abusing ... so get a
> real
> data plan.
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
>
>
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-29, 10:33 am |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
> You keep mentioning "porn slurping" and it's a little off-putting. One
> doesn't have to be surfing porn to want to use their phone to its utmost.
>
> You completely ignored my list of activities *specifically* prohibited by
> the Verizon agreement.
>
> One of my favorites is being able to use Orb. On a recent trip I was able to
> watch The Tonight Show with Jay Leno while waiting for a flight at the
> airport. That use is specifically and unambiguously prohibited by Verizon.
>
> Another thing I do quite often is to log in remotely to my desktop PC with
> EzRemote remote desktop software. Among other things, it lets me use the
> actual Internet Explorer browser to access my bank. To my knowledge, no
> phone/smartphone/pda browser is compatible with my bank's authentication
> scheme. That use is again specifically and unambiguously prohibited by
> Verizon.
>
> From time-to-time I transfer files to my 700p using Avvenue. It could be a
> spreadsheet or an MP3. A use not allowed by Verizon.
>
> The performance is top-notch. So it does not appear that Sprint's
> consumer-friendly policies have negatively impacted their quality of
> service.
>
> I understand what you're saying about Verizon "ignoring" it if it's not
> significant use. However the KEY difference is that Sprint has no language
> against these activities in its TOS, and Verizon does. Verizon *has*
> enforced its regulations. You've provided no evidence that Sprint does
> anything similar.
>
Sprint has and most certainly will continue to take action against abusers. I
doubt highly that Sprint cares about any specific use, but instead, just cares
about overall bandwidth consumed. If you use too much ... expect a hand
slapping.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Tinman 2006-11-29, 10:33 am |
|
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YYgbh.3023$Yy1.2791@textfe.usenetserver.com...
> Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
>
> Sprint has and most certainly will continue to take action against
> abusers. I
> doubt highly that Sprint cares about any specific use, but instead, just
> cares
> about overall bandwidth consumed. If you use too much ... expect a hand
Besides ignoring most of Bill's key points, you have an interesting
definition for "evidence."
Sprint has better pricing for data, and is less restrictive than Verizon.
End of story.
All this talk about what EV-DO can't do doesn't matter to the people
actually using it--and "porn slurpers" aren't likely to be using it anyway.
--
Mike
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-29, 12:33 pm |
| Tinman <ask@for.it> wrote:
>
> Besides ignoring most of Bill's key points, you have an interesting
> definition for "evidence."
>
Evidence is all over this group. They have nabbed fools for tethering since
Vision was first released. I am not a monkey doing Google for the guy ... he
can do it himself.
> Sprint has better pricing for data, and is less restrictive than Verizon.
> End of story.
>
Yes they do. Verizon has been offering more bandwidth to its users. End of
story (for now).
> All this talk about what EV-DO can't do doesn't matter to the people
> actually using it--and "porn slurpers" aren't likely to be using it anyway.
>
My point was and is that EV-DO is not meant for large scale bandwidth hogs.
So, if you bring the wrath of Verizon down on your for your usage, the odds
are good that the same usage will bring the wrath of Sprint down on your too.
Whether a given application is specifically prohibitted or not.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-29, 3:33 pm |
| Tethering is a completely different issue, and Sprint is very up-front about
it. Read up on "red herring." There is no evidence of Sprint contracts being
terminated for non-tethering use.
I also don't see where you can prove that Verizon offers "more bandwidth"
for its users. In fact there are multiple websites that have proven that
Verizon has intentionally *limits* bandwidth via side-by-side videos of live
tests. Plus, Verizon specifically claims the right to do so in their TOS:
"We reserve right to limit throughput..." Again, a provision conspicuously
NOT found in the Sprint TOS.
A couple weeks after I first got my Sprint Treo 700p, I walked into a
Verizon store and did a speed test right there. Both units had full bars.
Neither was roaming. My Sprint Treo 700p kicked the butt of the Verizon
700p. 386Kbps to 234Kbps. (The speed test, since it was not web browsing,
email, or intranet access was actually prohibited under Verizon's terms of
service.)
Although you keep changing the subject, you're quickly losing any
credibility when you keep pulling these so-called "facts" out of your butt.
Maybe you should actually use Google to back yourself up once.
InfoWorld
http://weblog.infoworld.com/gripeli...on_sneakwr.html
Consumer Affairs
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news..._unlimited.html
Washington Post
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thec...dth_bandit.html
Let's not forget to mention that Sprint has a wider EVDO coverage area, is
rolling out Rev A EVDO sooner than Verizon, and has on average higher
throughput than Verizon on its network. I'll let you Google those facts
yourself. Try the terms "Verizon cripple" to see how they screw consumers
over in more ways than just broadband access.
Excerpt from a Verizon letter to a customer of its "Unlimited" plan:
"As you know, the terms and conditions that govern your NationalAccess
and/or BroadbandAccess account, which were provided to you at the time of
service activation and which are posted on VerizonWireless.com, only permit
Internet browsing, email and intranet access. All other activities, such as
streaming and/or downloading movies and video, are expressly prohibited by
the terms and conditions. A copy of the terms and conditions is enclosed."
Enjoy your Verizon service... until you get it taken away.
| |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse 2006-11-29, 10:33 pm |
| Bill Marriott <wjm@wjm.org> wrote:
> Tethering is a completely different issue, and Sprint is very up-front about
> it. Read up on "red herring." There is no evidence of Sprint contracts being
> terminated for non-tethering use.
>
> I also don't see where you can prove that Verizon offers "more bandwidth"
> for its users. In fact there are multiple websites that have proven that
> Verizon has intentionally *limits* bandwidth via side-by-side videos of live
> tests. Plus, Verizon specifically claims the right to do so in their TOS:
> "We reserve right to limit throughput..." Again, a provision conspicuously
> NOT found in the Sprint TOS.
>
Just going off of reports I have read about. Chalk it up to my imagination if
you like, I don't really care. In fact, I am sure that it would be easy to
google up reports for both of them have more bandwidth than the other, based
upon timeframe and location (meaning at any give time and place one was faster
than the other).
> Enjoy your Verizon service... until you get it taken away.
>
I will and I won't. I use a VX8300 and watch very little video on my phone,
preferring to talk on it more than look at it. All the video is sanctioned
and within the TOS (explicitly).
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
| |
| Isaiah Beard 2006-11-30, 12:33 pm |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
> If that is what you are looking for .... I am sure they don't want your
> business. EVDO is not a broadband solution for the above ... it could only
> support a few users.
Yet somehow, Sprint doesn't have these restrictions and permits pretty
much everything but P2P. They even sell their own EVDO-to-Wireless-G
router. And they don't seem to be suffering much for it.
--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
| |
| Isaiah Beard 2006-11-30, 12:33 pm |
| Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
> My point is that if you are porn slurping or stealing movies, you should not
> consider wireless as your source of bandwidth
Tom, you assume that everyone complaining about Verizon's draconian
policy is a porn slurper or a movie pirate. I personally take offense
to that as I am neither, and yet don't fit the description of a good
little Verizon customer. One needs only to hang out in evdoforums.com
to see plenty of instances where VZW has terminated people for uses that
are quite legitimate, but "excessive" in VZW's view.
--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
| |
| Bill Marriott 2006-11-30, 12:33 pm |
| Excellent point.
http://www.evdoforums.com/thread2366.html
See if you can find a thread like that for Sprint. (You can't.)
"Isaiah Beard" < sacredpoet@sacredpoe
t.com> wrote in message
news:12mu38csls56b1b
@corp.supernews.com...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
>
> Tom, you assume that everyone complaining about Verizon's draconian policy
> is a porn slurper or a movie pirate. I personally take offense to that as
> I am neither, and yet don't fit the description of a good little Verizon
> customer. One needs only to hang out in evdoforums.com to see plenty of
> instances where VZW has terminated people for uses that are quite
> legitimate, but "excessive" in VZW's view.
>
> --
> E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
> Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
|
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