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Cellular forums Home > Archive > T-Mobile cellular service > October 2005 > Unlock question
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| I use a password for both my SIM and the phone itself to reduce the
chance of the phone being used after being lost or stolen. The SIM is
still locked and I just got to over 3 months of service where I could
have it unlocked. I was wondering if and how the unlocking might
increase the risk of the phone being more "useful" for unauthorized
users. I suppose they could use it with a different SIM card then but
not with my own, right? BTW, as I use the phone mostly for outgoing
calls, it is powered off most of the time.
Rudy
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| "R. P." <r_pol12gar@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4rOdnWaq59YhJcj
enZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@co
mcast.com:
> I was wondering if and how the unlocking might
> increase the risk of the phone being more "useful" for unauthorized
> users. I suppose they could use it with a different SIM card then but
> not with my own, right? BTW, as I use the phone mostly for outgoing
> calls, it is powered off most of the time.
There are two sides of the coin here.
1. Most phones allow you to set password (don't remember off top of my
head what it's called), which is required when a new sim is inserted into
the phone. Perhaps this is what you are referring to as a phone password.
That way, if a thief tries to put in their own sim into your phone, it
won't work (without them knowing your password). Technically...
2. Sim password will prevent your sim from being used in another phone
without knowing the pin.
3. However......... There are a lot of "specialists", who can simply plug
the cable into your phone and reload the firmware, sometimes for as
little as $20-30 in many conutries (or even neighborhoods), in which some
stolen phones end-up. That will remove both your phone lock and subsidy
lock along the way (whether you had it or not). So... it will be harder
for somebody, who just happened to "find" your phone after you dropped it
on the bus to use it, but not too much of a trouble for a thief who makes
living re-selling stolen phones.
4. But then... do you think a thief, who is unable to use your phone will
return it to you? Likely not, and they have no knowledge in advance of
whether they'll be able to use it or not... BUT... Here's what happened
to me on a couple of occasions. We have several phones on family plan -
and some of my family members are more prone to loosing their phones than
others. On three (3!) occasions, somebody from our family lost a phone,
and once we realized it, we just dialed its number - and explained the
situation to the honest citizen who found it, and they returned it to us
(once it ended up in a bus company lost-and-found desk, once under a
store counter, and last time in the hands of a guy who picked it up on
the street). Ok... we live in a decent neighborhood, so maybe there's a
less of a chance for this to happen in certain neighborhoods, than in
others.
5. None the less... consider this. Your phone is mostly off. When you
need to make a call, you power it on and enter a PIN... If you loose it -
say goodby to it once and forever. 'Cause even if somebody otherwise
willing to return it to you won't be able to take your call asking for it
back (they don't know your power-on pin). Unless you have "if found
please call xxx-xxx-xxxx" label on it.
6. Of course, you have to weigh your risks of that vs. somebody in a poor
immigrant neighborhood finding it and racking up a few hours of
international calls to their home country before you realize it's lost
and cancel the sim card....
Hope this helps,
LEM
(digits in e-mail are to avert spam. remove them to mail directly)
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| ^'^BatAttaK^'^ 2005-10-19, 5:48 pm |
| On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:08:50 -0700, "R. P." <r_pol12gar@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I use a password for both my SIM and the phone itself to reduce the
>chance of the phone being used after being lost or stolen. The SIM is
>still locked and I just got to over 3 months of service where I could
>have it unlocked. I was wondering if and how the unlocking might
>increase the risk of the phone being more "useful" for unauthorized
>users. I suppose they could use it with a different SIM card then but
>not with my own, right? BTW, as I use the phone mostly for outgoing
>calls, it is powered off most of the time.
>
>Rudy
It would very useful if someone stole it. Right now the ohone is
locked to only accept a T-Mobile SIM card. If it is unlocked they,
and you, could use any SIM in it making it just that much more
convenient for the thief.
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| Joseph 2005-10-19, 5:48 pm |
| On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:10:47 GMT, ^'^BatAttaK^'^ <nope@noway.com>
wrote:
>It would very useful if someone stole it. Right now the ohone is
>locked to only accept a T-Mobile SIM card. If it is unlocked they,
>and you, could use any SIM in it making it just that much more
>convenient for the thief.
Yeah, and you can worry that if you step off the curb tomorrow that
you'll get hit by a bus as well. Sheesh! If you have phone security
and PIN security you don't have much to worry about. If the phone is
stolen you notify your carrier and you will not be charged for any
calls beyond the point that you notify them. How simple could that
be?
- -
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| John S. 2005-10-19, 11:48 pm |
|
"R. P." <r_pol12gar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4rOdnWaq59YhJcj
enZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@co
mcast.com...
>I use a password for both my SIM and the phone itself to reduce the chance
>of the phone being used after being lost or stolen. The SIM is still
>locked and I just got to over 3 months of service where I could have it
>unlocked. I was wondering if and how the unlocking might increase the risk
>of the phone being more "useful" for unauthorized users. I suppose they
>could use it with a different SIM card then but not with my own, right?
>BTW, as I use the phone mostly for outgoing calls, it is powered off most
>of the time.
>
> Rudy
Rudy, you have a mistaken view of locks. There are basically 3.
The SIM lock is used to lock the SIM. Whenever you turn off the phone and
power it back on, it will ask you for the SIM PIN.
The Phone lock locks the phone. If the sim is taken out and another one is
inserted, you need the phone's PIN before it will work. This lock makes it a
useless phone if someone steals it or finds it and trys to put their SIM in
it.
The final lock is the Subsidy lock which locks it to a particular carrier.
This is what is talked about when people talk about a locked phone or
unlocking the phone.
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| R. P. 2005-10-19, 11:48 pm |
| "John S." <john@mocha-n-micro-chips.com> wrote:
> Rudy, you have a mistaken view of locks. There are basically 3.
>
> The SIM lock is used to lock the SIM. Whenever you turn off the phone
> and power it back on, it will ask you for the SIM PIN.
>
> The Phone lock locks the phone. If the sim is taken out and another
> one is inserted, you need the phone's PIN before it will work. This
> lock makes it a useless phone if someone steals it or finds it and
> trys to put their SIM in it.
>
> The final lock is the Subsidy lock which locks it to a particular
> carrier. This is what is talked about when people talk about a locked
> phone or unlocking the phone.
OK, John, I understood this except what you said about the required PIN
entry when putting in a new SIM card. I had no idea that the phone's PIN
(in my case a V330) would be required to make it work with a new SIM,
though it makes sense when I think of it. That means then that even if
the subsidy lock was removed, I could still be reasonably sure that any
stored info in the phone would be protected from unauthorized users even
if I might never see the phone again.
My main reason of considering the subsidy unlock is to be able to use my
phone in Europe with a local SIM card there for the local calls. As I
would probably use the local T-Mobile service in Europe as well, I now
wonder if I would even need an unlocked phone in such situation.
Rudy
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| R. P. 2005-10-19, 11:48 pm |
| "LEM" <unp23@lem.freeshell45.org> wrote:
> 3. However......... There are a lot of "specialists", who can simply
> plug
> the cable into your phone and reload the firmware, sometimes for as
> little as $20-30 in many conutries (or even neighborhoods), in which
> some
> stolen phones end-up. That will remove both your phone lock and
> subsidy
> lock along the way (whether you had it or not). So... it will be
> harder
> for somebody, who just happened to "find" your phone after you dropped
> it
> on the bus to use it, but not too much of a trouble for a thief who
> makes
> living re-selling stolen phones.
Well, I would probably worry more about the data I sored in the phone
getting into the wrong hands than the phone itself. That kind of
firmware reload would at least wipe out any former ly stored data, I
assume.
> 5. None the less... consider this. Your phone is mostly off. When you
> need to make a call, you power it on and enter a PIN... If you loose
> it -
> say goodby to it once and forever. 'Cause even if somebody otherwise
> willing to return it to you won't be able to take your call asking for
> it
> back (they don't know your power-on pin). Unless you have "if found
> please call xxx-xxx-xxxx" label on it.
Not necessarily. If the finder returns the phone to a T-Mobile store, I
think they can tell whose phone it is through their "God-like powers,"
which means ether through their super password, overriding the user
password, or by the ID number printed on the SIM card. At least I think
so ...
Rudy
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| "R. P." <r_pol12gar@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:tNmdncjTzqiuSsv
eRVn-pg@comcast.com:
> "LEM" <unp23@lem.freeshell45.org> wrote:
>
> Well, I would probably worry more about the data I sored in the phone
> getting into the wrong hands than the phone itself. That kind of
> firmware reload would at least wipe out any former ly stored data, I
> assume.
Yes, if they are after the phone itself, that's probably what will
happen. Though, I think (but not sure) with cable and right software
anything can be broken into. The only way to protect from it with
near-certain assurance is to arm your phone with some sort of
self-destruction device readily found in 007 type movies :-/.
On the other hand, unless you are a celebrity (as in case of stolen
phonebook from Paris Hilton) or a high-profile executive bearing
valuable trade secrets, or a politician, or something along these lines
- a potential thief will probably not be after your data, they're more
interested in selling your phone. And the pin code will reasonably well
protect your data against a nosy teenager who may accidentally find your
phone (even if in your own pocket)...
[color=darkred]
> Not necessarily. If the finder returns the phone to a T-Mobile store,
> I think they can tell whose phone it is through their "God-like
> powers," which means ether through their super password, overriding
> the user password, or by the ID number printed on the SIM card. At
> least I think so ...
They could. If finder should bother to bring the phone to a store. In
all cases described above nobody bothered to take an un-locked phone and
look up "Home" in phonebook to call me. While the cases with the bus and
the street we called them pretty quickly - the phone my mother left in
IKEA spent half a day and a following night there before she realized
it's missing. Had we not called, it would have probably collected dust
there until the battery died, and then who knows where it would've ended
up... Oh... and that phone was a Sprint CDMA phone, which is next to
useless to anyone other than registred owner. There are no SIMS, and no
way to reprogram it for a different account, as Sprint knew about all
their inventory well... So nobody whould've wanted it. They were just
lazy or irresponsible (ok, they were IKEA employees after all) to do
something about it.
Anyway - it's your call as to priorities of data safety over phone
recoverability... And to answer your question as to whether you need
subsidy lock removed if you want to use the phone in Europe with local
SIM the answer is definetly yes. It won't work at all with foreign SIM
unless subsidy unlocked. And while you're on the phone with CS, ask them
to add World Class roaming (if you want to use t-mobile SIM there as
well), as it is not on the account by default, you have to ask for it!
LEM
(remove all digits from e-mail for direct reply)
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| R. P. 2005-10-20, 11:48 pm |
| "LEM" <unp23@lem.freeshell45.org> wrote:
> Yes, if they are after the phone itself, that's probably what will
> happen. Though, I think (but not sure) with cable and right software
> anything can be broken into. The only way to protect from it with
> near-certain assurance is to arm your phone with some sort of
> self-destruction device readily found in 007 type movies :-/.
You meant Mission Impossible, right? ;-)
Thanks for the informative reply,
Rudy
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