GPS - Am I asking too much?

Author

Am I asking too much?

Tim Kynerd

2007-05-18, 10:33 pm

Hi everyone. I'm new to this group, so please be gentle. :-)

I'm currently in the market for my first GPS unit. As I look at the
market, I'm seeing issues because of what I want.

My initial interest stems from a project that I want to complete, the
details of which aren't so interesting, but suffice it to say that I will
need to be able to save tracks and waypoints from a route I've followed in
a car, and I'll need to be able to create the waypoints very quickly.

Once I'm done with this limited-duration project, I'd like to be left with
a unit that I can use in my car. However, I find myself becoming spoiled
as to what I want for an automobile unit: among other things, I'd like a
nice bright display and voice guidance, preferably with street name
annunciation.

There seems to be a sort of Chinese wall between these two types of units.
The first use I've described seems to be met with units designed for
people who mostly want to use them for geocaching and similar pursuits.
The second use I've described seems to be met with units specifically
designed to be used in a car, and not particularly suited to saving
tracks or to creating waypoints on the fly.

Am I underinformed? Is there a unit that's really good at both, or am I
just asking too much from one unit? Would my best bet be to get a
geocaching-y handheld (e.g., the Garmin 60CSx), use it for my first
project, sell it on and use the proceeds toward a good in-car unit?

What do you think?

Thanks,
Tim Kynerd

David Chamberlain

2007-05-18, 10:33 pm

Tim Kynerd wrote:
> Hi everyone. I'm new to this group, so please be gentle. :-)
>
> I'm currently in the market for my first GPS unit. As I look at the
> market, I'm seeing issues because of what I want.
>
> My initial interest stems from a project that I want to complete, the
> details of which aren't so interesting, but suffice it to say that I will
> need to be able to save tracks and waypoints from a route I've followed in
> a car, and I'll need to be able to create the waypoints very quickly.
>
> Once I'm done with this limited-duration project, I'd like to be left with
> a unit that I can use in my car. However, I find myself becoming spoiled
> as to what I want for an automobile unit: among other things, I'd like a
> nice bright display and voice guidance, preferably with street name
> annunciation.
>
> There seems to be a sort of Chinese wall between these two types of units.
> The first use I've described seems to be met with units designed for
> people who mostly want to use them for geocaching and similar pursuits.
> The second use I've described seems to be met with units specifically
> designed to be used in a car, and not particularly suited to saving
> tracks or to creating waypoints on the fly.
>
> Am I underinformed? Is there a unit that's really good at both, or am I
> just asking too much from one unit? Would my best bet be to get a
> geocaching-y handheld (e.g., the Garmin 60CSx), use it for my first
> project, sell it on and use the proceeds toward a good in-car unit?
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Kynerd

You may want to look at Magellan's Crossover GPS (2500T). It has 3
different "programs" to do road navigation, marine navigation and
outdoor navigation.

It's road navigation is as good anything else I've seen. I gets me
there, with very few mistakes or problems.

I've never used the Marine navigation program but I have used the
Outdoor navigation some. Unfortunately, the outdoor navigation is
severely lacking. You could get around with it, and find things like
camp or the favorite hunting blind, etc. But it's no good for anything
that requires finer detail.

Having said that, it does keep track logs, and you can save them and
export them to a SD card. I haven't done this, so I can't say for sure
but I would expect it to use the standard Magellan track log format. If
you needed another format you should be able to use another program like
GPSBabel to convert it.

If you like, I can take it for a short drive tomorrow, save and export
the track log and see if I can translate it to the format you need. Just
let me know the format.

--
David Chamberlain - ASAPM Moderator
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Tim Kynerd

2007-05-19, 4:33 am

On Fri, 18 May 2007 20:06:53 -0700, David Chamberlain wrote:

> Tim Kynerd wrote:
>
> You may want to look at Magellan's Crossover GPS (2500T). It has 3
> different "programs" to do road navigation, marine navigation and
> outdoor navigation.
>
> It's road navigation is as good anything else I've seen. I gets me
> there, with very few mistakes or problems.
>
> I've never used the Marine navigation program but I have used the
> Outdoor navigation some. Unfortunately, the outdoor navigation is
> severely lacking. You could get around with it, and find things like
> camp or the favorite hunting blind, etc. But it's no good for anything
> that requires finer detail.
>
> Having said that, it does keep track logs, and you can save them and
> export them to a SD card. I haven't done this, so I can't say for sure
> but I would expect it to use the standard Magellan track log format. If
> you needed another format you should be able to use another program like
> GPSBabel to convert it.
>
> If you like, I can take it for a short drive tomorrow, save and export
> the track log and see if I can translate it to the format you need. Just
> let me know the format.
>

Hey David,

Thanks very much! For what I'm doing, it would be easiest to be able to
get the track information out by segment, and the waypoint information out
for each waypoint, in a simple text format that includes the latitude and
longitude. I'll need to be putting it into a text format for this:

http://tinyurl.com/2mzosu

and for this:

http://tinyurl.com/38mo4v

(The first URL is what I'd be using waypoints for; the second is what I'd
be using track data for.)

Thanks,
Tim

David Chamberlain

2007-05-19, 4:33 am

Tim Kynerd wrote:
> On Fri, 18 May 2007 20:06:53 -0700, David Chamberlain wrote:
>
>
> Hey David,
>
> Thanks very much! For what I'm doing, it would be easiest to be able to
> get the track information out by segment, and the waypoint information out
> for each waypoint, in a simple text format that includes the latitude and
> longitude. I'll need to be putting it into a text format for this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mzosu
>
> and for this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/38mo4v
>
> (The first URL is what I'd be using waypoints for; the second is what I'd
> be using track data for.)
>
> Thanks,
> Tim

As far as getting the track data out by segment, you can start and stop
the track log, save it to a file, then start another log. Or you could
just run one log and break it out via some computer program. The track
log contains lat/lon coordinates, altitude in Meters and date/time UTC.

The native track log from the GPS is in a text format. Although it is a
bit difficult to figure out what the fields are. The native track log
looks like this.

http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/test.log

Maybe a better format is GPX. I converted the above file with GPSBabel.
The result looks like this.

http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/test.gpx

These are just track logs, as I haven't tried to export waypoints yet.
But I suspect they'd look pretty much the same. I'll try that in the
morning and give you some example files.

Hope this helps some.

--
David Chamberlain - ASAPM Moderator
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
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anyone@nowhere.com

2007-05-19, 7:33 am

A French fellow has created a free plugin for TomTom's called TripMaster.
This program has the ability to save tracks.

You can read a description of it's functions here:

http://www.webazar.org/tomtom/tripmaster.php?lang=uk

Tim Kynerd

2007-05-19, 10:33 am

On Fri, 18 May 2007 23:10:49 -0700, David Chamberlain wrote:

-lots of old stuff snipped-

> As far as getting the track data out by segment, you can start and stop
> the track log, save it to a file, then start another log. Or you could
> just run one log and break it out via some computer program. The track
> log contains lat/lon coordinates, altitude in Meters and date/time UTC.
>
> The native track log from the GPS is in a text format. Although it is a
> bit difficult to figure out what the fields are. The native track log
> looks like this.
>
> http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/test.log
>
> Maybe a better format is GPX. I converted the above file with GPSBabel.
> The result looks like this.
>
> http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/test.gpx
>
> These are just track logs, as I haven't tried to export waypoints yet.
> But I suspect they'd look pretty much the same. I'll try that in the
> morning and give you some example files.
>
> Hope this helps some.
>

Either of those formats would work fine, although I found that seeing the
GPX format helped explain the native format, where I didn't understand all
the fields at first.

I'll look forward to seeing how the waypoints look, although like you, I
expect they'll be very similar (which will be great).

Thanks again,
Tim

Tim Kynerd

2007-05-19, 10:33 am

On Sat, 19 May 2007 11:45:38 +0000, anyone wrote:

> A French fellow has created a free plugin for TomTom's called TripMaster.
> This program has the ability to save tracks.
>
> You can read a description of it's functions here:
>
> http://www.webazar.org/tomtom/tripmaster.php?lang=uk

Thanks for the reference! I gather this is Linux software, which would be
excellent as I run an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution on my main machine.
(I realize that this software is to be installed onto the TomTom, but I
assume it would also interface with Linux on a computer...no?)

Best regards,
Tim

David Chamberlain

2007-05-22, 10:33 pm

Tim Kynerd wrote:
> Either of those formats would work fine, although I found that seeing the
> GPX format helped explain the native format, where I didn't understand all
> the fields at first.
>
> I'll look forward to seeing how the waypoints look, although like you, I
> expect they'll be very similar (which will be great).
>
> Thanks again,
> Tim

These are what the waypoints look like. Some of these I entered manually
into the receiver and some I took in the field.

The Magellan native format looks like this.

http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/export.upt

The converted to GPX format looks like this.

http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/export.gpx

--
David Chamberlain - ASAPM Moderator
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
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+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Tim Kynerd

2007-05-22, 10:33 pm

On Tue, 22 May 2007 15:10:05 -0700, David Chamberlain wrote:

> Tim Kynerd wrote:
>
> These are what the waypoints look like. Some of these I entered manually
> into the receiver and some I took in the field.
>
> The Magellan native format looks like this.
>
> http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/export.upt
>
> The converted to GPX format looks like this.
>
> http://www.chamberlain.homedns.org/gps/export.gpx
>

Yep, those look easy to convert into what I need -- especially the
Magellan native format, as it's already close to what I need (the GPX
format, of course, is really XML, and I'd have to parse the document tree,
etc. in order to handle that). Thanks so much for the help, David!

Am I right in assuming you also use this for navigation in your car? Could
you give me some comments on how it is for that purpose?

Thanks,
Tim

David Chamberlain

2007-05-22, 10:33 pm

Tim Kynerd wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2007 15:10:05 -0700, David Chamberlain wrote:
>
>
> Yep, those look easy to convert into what I need -- especially the
> Magellan native format, as it's already close to what I need (the GPX
> format, of course, is really XML, and I'd have to parse the document tree,
> etc. in order to handle that). Thanks so much for the help, David!
>
> Am I right in assuming you also use this for navigation in your car? Could
> you give me some comments on how it is for that purpose?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim

I primarily use it for navigation in my car. Most of the outdoor stuff I
do is Geocaching, and it has some hitches that make it difficult to use
for that. So far anyway, I just figured out that I could load Mapsend
Topo USA 3d detail maps on it, so that might make it better.

As far as road navigation goes, I like it. You want to go somewhere,
start with the city (generally I only have to type 3 or 4 letters before
it gives me a list of cities) or zip code, then the street (same 3 or 4
letters before it gives me a list), then the number, tell it to route
and off you go. There are also a bunch of pre-programmed poi's
(restaurants, gas stations, etc.) although they are a bit outdated.

It tells you your next turn, announces it at 2 miles and .5 miles
before, and dings when you are right on the turn. It also zooms in at
the turn and back out to where it was set after the turn.

If you miss a turn, or make the wrong turn, it creates a new route very
quickly.

It can be a bit persistent if you take a route other than what it is
giving you. It will insist every 5 or 10 seconds that you make a legal
U-turn, or try to turn you down a road that will loop back and put you
on the road you want. This is slightly challenging when I'm driving the
Forest Service roads and such. There are many times when it wanted me to
go down what appeared to be a rabbit trail, but it was certain it was a
road. It usually figures it out before long though.

There are, of course, occasional errors in the map. It wanted me to go
straight through an intersection where their was a right turn only sign,
for example. It also believes that the OC&E Woods Line (an old Oregon
railroad turned into a walking trail) is a road and will try to route
you on it if it thinks there isn't a better route. Obviously you need to
use some common sense and watch where you're driving and not always do
what the GPSr tells you to.

Generally speaking I think it does a good job. I haven't, however, used
anyone else's road navigation GPSr, so I can't really compare it.

Hope this helps.
--
David Chamberlain - ASAPM Moderator
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Support for anxiety or panic disorders. Check us out! |
| alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated http://stump.algebra.com/~asapm |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Larry G

2007-05-23, 10:33 am

On May 22, 11:28 pm, David Chamberlain
<david.chamberl...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Tim Kynerd wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I primarily use it for navigation in my car. Most of the outdoor stuff I
> do is Geocaching, and it has some hitches that make it difficult to use
> for that. So far anyway, I just figured out that I could load Mapsend
> Topo USA 3d detail maps on it, so that might make it better.
>
> As far as road navigation goes, I like it. You want to go somewhere,
> start with the city (generally I only have to type 3 or 4 letters before
> it gives me a list of cities) or zip code, then the street (same 3 or 4
> letters before it gives me a list), then the number, tell it to route
> and off you go. There are also a bunch of pre-programmed poi's
> (restaurants, gas stations, etc.) although they are a bit outdated.
>
> It tells you your next turn, announces it at 2 miles and .5 miles
> before, and dings when you are right on the turn. It also zooms in at
> the turn and back out to where it was set after the turn.
>
> If you miss a turn, or make the wrong turn, it creates a new route very
> quickly.
>
> It can be a bit persistent if you take a route other than what it is
> giving you. It will insist every 5 or 10 seconds that you make a legal
> U-turn, or try to turn you down a road that will loop back and put you
> on the road you want. This is slightly challenging when I'm driving the
> Forest Service roads and such. There are many times when it wanted me to
> go down what appeared to be a rabbit trail, but it was certain it was a
> road. It usually figures it out before long though.
>
> There are, of course, occasional errors in the map. It wanted me to go
> straight through an intersection where their was a right turn only sign,
> for example. It also believes that the OC&E Woods Line (an old Oregon
> railroad turned into a walking trail) is a road and will try to route
> you on it if it thinks there isn't a better route. Obviously you need to
> use some common sense and watch where you're driving and not always do
> what the GPSr tells you to.
>
> Generally speaking I think it does a good job. I haven't, however, used
> anyone else's road navigation GPSr, so I can't really compare it.
>
> Hope this helps.
> --
> David Chamberlain - ASAPM Moderator
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Support for anxiety or panic disorders. Check us out! |
> | alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderatedhttp://stump.algebra.com/~asapm|
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

re:
"So far anyway, I just figured out that I could load Mapsend
Topo USA 3d detail maps on it, so that might make it better.

.... okay... so Mapsend is Magellen's product.. and it's generating
proprietary format maps for it's crossover unit...

just as Garmin does this with it's PC Map software that can then
download maps to some of it's hanheld mapping units.

but .. just to confirm with readers of this newsgroup -

this capability of having PC mapping software generate downloadable
maps for handheld (or auto nav) units is not a generic capability ...
say where you have the PC sofware, perhaps shareware/freeware .. and
it will generate maps.. for download into different units in
selectable (per brand/model) formats?

does my question make any sense?

thanks

Mark Hewitt

2007-05-24, 7:33 am

"Tim Kynerd" <tim@tram.se> wrote in message
news:f2la5q01892@new
s5.newsguy.com...
> Hi everyone. I'm new to this group, so please be gentle. :-)
>
> Am I underinformed? Is there a unit that's really good at both, or am I
> just asking too much from one unit? Would my best bet be to get a
> geocaching-y handheld (e.g., the Garmin 60CSx), use it for my first
> project, sell it on and use the proceeds toward a good in-car unit?

Why not get a Pocket PC? That way you can load software onto it which is
specifically designed for each purpose.

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