GPS - Re: How to make a Garmin GPS FIT the route to the screen

Author

Re: How to make a Garmin GPS FIT the route to the screen

_Pnina Gersten_

2007-08-22, 10:33 am

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:40:18 -0400, Newsgroup Reader wrote:
> Question, on long trips, is it really useful to see the whole route?

Answer, yes if you care about learning; no if all you want to do is get
there.

For me, GPS is not just a rote turn-left-turn-right turn-your-brain-off
nag.

A huge part of the reason I use GPS mapping is to LEARN more about the best
ways to get from here to there, and, to learn more about the areas I'm
traversing.

For that purpose, it is VERY HELPFUL to see the whole route in context at
the start of a trip, and then, as I get closer and closer to my
destination, the route fit-to-screen should fit from my current location to
the destination.

The ability to fit route is a basal need that all GPS displays should do. I
just can't figure out how to fit route on the nuvi.

Am I the only one who uses GPS to LEARN more about the areas I'm traversing
- or does everyone just use GPS brainlessly to just get where they're
going?

Jim Townsend

2007-08-22, 12:33 pm

_Pnina Gersten_ wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:40:18 -0400, Newsgroup Reader wrote:
>
> Answer, yes if you care about learning; no if all you want to do is get
> there.
>
> For me, GPS is not just a rote turn-left-turn-right turn-your-brain-off
> nag.
>
> A huge part of the reason I use GPS mapping is to LEARN more about the best
> ways to get from here to there, and, to learn more about the areas I'm
> traversing.
>
> For that purpose, it is VERY HELPFUL to see the whole route in context at
> the start of a trip, and then, as I get closer and closer to my
> destination, the route fit-to-screen should fit from my current location to
> the destination.
>
> The ability to fit route is a basal need that all GPS displays should do. I
> just can't figure out how to fit route on the nuvi.
>
> Am I the only one who uses GPS to LEARN more about the areas I'm traversing
> - or does everyone just use GPS brainlessly to just get where they're
> going?

My experience with all the car GPS systems I've managed to lay hands on is
that you can't zoom out very far without losing a lot of detail. On a
long trip across a large city or when travelling from city to city, you
wind up with a thick meaningless squiggly line when you zoom out far enough
to see the whole route.

If you really want to see your whole route with reasonable detail, you need
to run software based GPS applications (Like MS Streets & Trips, or Delorme).
You need to run these on a laptop. A 1024x768+ display on a 15+ inch monitor
is superior to any unit that will fit on your dash.

With software based GPS, you can plot a route between Seattle WA and Miami FL
and see the whole route with lots of detail. You can see the states and major
cities you will be passing through and you can read even the number labels on
the interstate highways you will be driving on.

I have a handheld GPS for hiking and geocaching.. A car GPS for general use,
and I have laptop with Microsoft Streets and Trips that I use on long trips.
This provides the ultimate in GPS versatility.

Edwin Pawlowski

2007-08-22, 10:33 pm

"_Pnina Gersten_" <pd53@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> The ability to fit route is a basal need that all GPS displays should do.
> I
> just can't figure out how to fit route on the nuvi.
>
> Am I the only one who uses GPS to LEARN more about the areas I'm
> traversing
> - or does everyone just use GPS brainlessly to just get where they're
> going?

If you want to learn about the areas you will be traversing, get a Road
Atlas or a local Street map. The screen view of a route on the typical GPS
unit is far to small to be of any value on a trip.

You can use Map Quest to find a route for you and it will give a screen on
the computer, but while that is better than a GPS, it still does not compare
with a real map. Never will. It just can't. Putting the information from
a 11 x 17 page onto a 2 x 3 screen does not do it justice.

Use the routing information from the GPS if you want to follow on a real map
in the comfort of your home before the trip. Put the Atlas in your car.
But please, be realistic to the capabilities of every medium and tool for
travel.

I've mentioned before, I can (so can you, of course) travel across the
country to any major city with a very minor knowledge of geography and just
follow the street signs. It is the last mile, or even quarter mile, that the
GPS unit truly shines getting you into a place with many turns and not have
to follow a paper map. I know Buffalo is west of me. I go to the MA
turnpike and there are signs 400 miles ahead of time. I don't need a GPS
for that, but I do to find a house in some development or a business in a
large industrial park.

If you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but you still are best
served with the right tool for the job. Unfold that big state map from the
gas station.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Ted Edwards

2007-08-24, 10:33 pm

_Pnina Gersten_ wrote:
> Answer, yes if you care about learning; no if all you want to do is get
> there.
>
> For me, GPS is not just a rote turn-left-turn-right turn-your-brain-off
> nag.
>
> A huge part of the reason I use GPS mapping is to LEARN more about the best
> ways to get from here to there, and, to learn more about the areas I'm
> traversing.

As do I but my recently purchased Garmin 76Cx does exactly what you wish
all the time, every time and if there is a way to turn it off, I have
yet to find it. It is a serious pain. Consider:

I live in western Canada. My eldest daughter lives in St. Paul and is
working on a PHD at U. of Minnesota. Since the bridge collapse I want
to look around for a route from her place to the University. If I
happen to be away from my computer, I try this on my 76Cx. I'd like to
see you learn anything from a whole-route display that includes British
Columbia and Minnesota on an inch and a half wide screen. Note that
another bug in the 76Cx is that every route starts from where you
currently are whether or not you include that location. Serious bummer.

Ted

Jack Erbes

2007-08-24, 10:33 pm

Ted Edwards wrote:
> _Pnina Gersten_ wrote:

The OP is new to GPS and does not understand it yet. He is trying to
get the "big picture" from a device that is intended to give him the
detail view needed to navigate.

The concept is that, if there is a "big picture" somewhere (in his head,
in MapSource on a PC, on a paper map, etc.) what he sees on the GPS
receiver is like looking at the big picture through a large piece of
paper with playing card sized hole in it. The hole pans with his
movements and all he sees is that small area around him and it is at the
same resolution or zoom level as the big picture.
[color=darkred]
> As do I but my recently purchased Garmin 76Cx does exactly what you wish
> all the time, every time and if there is a way to turn it off, I have
> yet to find it. It is a serious pain. Consider:
>
> I live in western Canada. My eldest daughter lives in St. Paul and is
> working on a PHD at U. of Minnesota. Since the bridge collapse I want
> to look around for a route from her place to the University. If I
> happen to be away from my computer, I try this on my 76Cx. I'd like to
> see you learn anything from a whole-route display that includes British
> Columbia and Minnesota on an inch and a half wide screen.

I'm not sure what you are complaining about. It is because it zooms in
when you activate a route? Or is it because it does not zoom in to a
useful level when you activate a route?

Look at the Setup Map menu. Press Menu, choose Setup Map, and press
Enter. Cursor right or left to the Map Setup - General menu (left most
icon at the top).

On that there is a Auto Zoom setting that defaults to On. With Auto
Zoom off, you have to control all zooms manually.

With Auto Zoom on, activating a Follow Road route and takes you back to
the Map Page at a zoom level of 800 feet (if you are not moving yet) by
the label in the lower left corner. From that point on the zoom level
changes as you move. It first zooms out for a "birds eye" view and
zooms in at turning points are approached.

I don't remember the exact zoom levels but with the Auto Zoom feature
on, the zoom levels seem appropriate to your speed and it works well for
navigation over roads by car.

> Note that
> another bug in the 76Cx is that every route starts from where you
> currently are whether or not you include that location. Serious bummer.

I'm not sure I understand the "bug" here. Are you talking about
activating a route with multiple waypoints? If so, when you activate a
route like that, the default behavior is that it will give you
directions from where you are to the most logical point in the route.

As an example, if a route has 10 waypoints and you are nearer to
waypoint #5 than you are to waypoint #4, it will give you directions for
getting to #5.

That logic is applied as straight line vectors on Off Road (point to
point) routes, if you chose Follow Road, it will take you to the most
logical waypoint by way of road vectors.

Maybe I don't understand the "bug" though.

Jack

Edwin Pawlowski

2007-08-24, 10:33 pm

"Ted Edwards" <Ted_Espamless@telus.net> wrote in message
> Note that another bug in the 76Cx is that every route starts from where
> you currently are whether or not you include that location. Serious
> bummer.
>
> Ted

How is that a bug? It does exactly as it is designed to do. They never
said it would do every mapping situation you want. Sounds like you should
have bought a different piece of equipment and software.

John Tserkezis

2007-08-25, 4:33 am

_Pnina Gersten_ wrote:

> Am I the only one who uses GPS to LEARN more about the areas I'm traversing

Nearly.

> or does everyone just use GPS brainlessly to just get where they're
> going?

Just about.

I have (ahem) friends that insist on using autorouting to take them on short
(within the city) trips, within a city they've been living in all their lives
and KNOW where the best routes are even if the autoroute engine doesn't.

I think that they're just so bedazzled as to what technology can do, they
turn off their common sense.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

Edwin Pawlowski

2007-08-25, 4:33 am

"John Tserkezis" < jt@techniciansyndrom
e.org.invalid> wrote in message
>
> I have (ahem) friends that insist on using autorouting to take them on
> short (within the city) trips, within a city they've been living in all
> their lives and KNOW where the best routes are even if the autoroute
> engine doesn't.
>
> I think that they're just so bedazzled as to what technology can do, they
> turn off their common sense.

I've done similar things. Yes, it was to play with a new toy as I've been
going to the same place for 25 years and know how to get there. I followed
the suggested route just to see how it would take me. It was acceptable, it
did get me there, but just not the route I prefer to drive.

In another case, I've gone a different way home from work so that I'd pass a
certain gas station when I'd want to fill up. I've gone that route a few
times a month for a few years. The Garmin took me a different way that I've
never tried. Now I go that way all the time. Not what I'd call a life
changing experience though.

I find some of the routing interesting. For instance, to go from my house to
the highway there are a series of lefts and rights that have to be taken,
but not on a particular street. To go right-left-right, it can be done at
any one of four places for the left. Sometimes it pick street #1, other
times street #2. Same coming back, it may change it from the one it told me
to use going out

Computer generated routes are not always perfect so do your research using a
real map

Ted Edwards

2007-08-25, 4:33 am

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Ted Edwards" <Ted_Espamless@telus.net> wrote in message
>
> How is that a bug? It does exactly as it is designed to do. They never
> said it would do every mapping situation you want. Sounds like you should
> have bought a different piece of equipment and software.

There is a limited choice in the market place. One must consider
available maps and their quality as well as the capabilities of the
hardware and its firmware.

This does not apply to a Nuvi. I don't have one and am therefore
unfamiliar with how easy it is to do various things. Suppose I am
sitting at home interested in where various Costco stores are "near" to
my daughter's home in Burnaby, BC, approximately 240Km from home. The
Costco web site informs me as to where various stores are located and I
have entered waypoints for several area Costco stores.

So, I pick one from the list and click on "Map". The unit zooms to show
both the selected Costco store and my present location. This gives a
picture that is totally useless. I need to press the zoom in button a
dozen times to get to a picture of the area of interest. If I now leave
this image to select another store the unit zooms out to include my home
as well as the selected store and I have to go through the whole zoom in
thing again.

The small screen of a hand-held GPS makes it seldom useful at zoom
settings >500m.

MapSource on the laptop is a whole different thing. It has a selection
to zoom to show a whole route or the region containing a selection of
waypoints.

Another point: I frequently choose to setup a route in some spare
moments. This route may well be from A to B while I am sitting at C. C
may be very far away from both A and B and utterly irrelevant to the
problem of interest. Thus my example elsewhere in this thread -
plotting a route from Amsterdam to Berlin while sitting in Fairbanks.
Automatically including Fairbanks as a starting point (with no way to
remove it) is definitely counter productive. If I want to start at my
present location, it is far simpler to create a temporary way point (if
I don't already have one at that location - e.g. HOME) but this is, at
least in my experience, the exception rather than the rule.

I understand and, to a large extend, agree with showing a whole route as
an initial zoom value but even that is largely counter productive on a
hand-held. e.g. Seattle to Miami.

Note: This is my fourth GPS. The first was a very simple Magellan. The
last three have been Garmin GPS-II+, GPS-V and GPSMAP 76Cx. Before my
first GPS, I spent many years navigating with paper maps on land, sea
and air using compass, pedometer, radio direction finder, VOR and I'm
even old enough to have done instrument approaches using Radio Range
(for you youngsters :-)) Morse A when you are off to one side, Morse N
when off to the other side and a steady tone if you right on the "beam".

Regards,
Ted

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2007-08-25, 4:33 am

In article <viOzi.9626$vP5.9507@edtnps90>,
Ted Edwards <Ted_Espamless@telus.net> wrote:

> Another point: I frequently choose to setup a route in some spare
> moments. This route may well be from A to B while I am sitting at C. C
> may be very far away from both A and B and utterly irrelevant to the
> problem of interest. Thus my example elsewhere in this thread -
> plotting a route from Amsterdam to Berlin while sitting in Fairbanks.
> Automatically including Fairbanks as a starting point (with no way to
> remove it) is definitely counter productive.

It's counter productive to your goal of trying to use it as a simple map
that has nothing to do with immediate navigation.

The device was never intended to do what you want. So why are you
complaining? It's operating as intended.

You're trying to screw screws with a hammer, and you're blaming the
hammer for overall being a sucky tool. No, the hammer doesn't
inherently suck. It's just the wrong tool. Instead, you need to choose
the tool that's appropriate for your job.

If you're in Fairbanks and you wish to while away the time looking at a
map of Europe, then get a map of Europe and look at it. Or get an
electronic map like Garmin's Mapsource and put it on a laptop, and play
with that. But don't expect a satellite navigation tool--the job of
which is to know where you are and to get you to where you want to
go--to do that.

Right tool for the job. Just because it has maps doesn't mean it's
suitable for your mapping purposes.

And that doesn't mean that it sucks or has something wrong with it.

Right tool for the job.

The Garmin version 4 beta software for my Windows Mobile PDA has a
simple "Browse Map" button that does some of what you want. I have used
that Browse Map button (along with the Browse Map tools that allow me to
drag the map around and to draw an area to zoom in on) to do what you
describe--check out the details of a strange area and try to get a sense
of the layout of the major roads and whatnot. But sit in Fairbanks and
show me how to get from Amsterdam to Berlin? Why would I want to use a
wrench to roof a house?

Jeffrey Kaplan

2007-08-25, 10:33 am

It is alleged that Ted Edwards claimed:

>
> There is a limited choice in the market place. One must consider
> available maps and their quality as well as the capabilities of the
> hardware and its firmware.
>
> This does not apply to a Nuvi. I don't have one and am therefore
> unfamiliar with how easy it is to do various things. Suppose I am
> sitting at home interested in where various Costco stores are "near" to
> my daughter's home in Burnaby, BC, approximately 240Km from home. The
> Costco web site informs me as to where various stores are located and I
> have entered waypoints for several area Costco stores.
>
> So, I pick one from the list and click on "Map". The unit zooms to show
> both the selected Costco store and my present location. This gives a

Odd. My c330 shows me just the map around the selected location when I
do that.

> picture that is totally useless. I need to press the zoom in button a
> dozen times to get to a picture of the area of interest. If I now leave
> this image to select another store the unit zooms out to include my home
> as well as the selected store and I have to go through the whole zoom in
> thing again.

Note that you're talking about a GPS unit, not a free-form mapping
product. These units are designed to chart a route based on were you
are right now, not from somewhere else.

> Another point: I frequently choose to setup a route in some spare
> moments. This route may well be from A to B while I am sitting at C. C
> may be very far away from both A and B and utterly irrelevant to the
> problem of interest. Thus my example elsewhere in this thread -
> plotting a route from Amsterdam to Berlin while sitting in Fairbanks.
> Automatically including Fairbanks as a starting point (with no way to
> remove it) is definitely counter productive. If I want to start at my

See above. It's a unit designed to get you from where you are to
somewhere else. If you want to go from somewhere else to someplace
different, then you need another product. This one is doing exactly
what it was designed to do.

> present location, it is far simpler to create a temporary way point (if
> I don't already have one at that location - e.g. HOME) but this is, at
> least in my experience, the exception rather than the rule.

If you want to start from your present location, why can't you just
enter a destination and GO?

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that
we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
public." - Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States

Jack Erbes

2007-08-25, 10:33 am

Ted Edwards wrote:

<snip>
> So, I pick one from the list and click on "Map". The unit zooms to show
> both the selected Costco store and my present location. This gives a
> picture that is totally useless. I need to press the zoom in button a
> dozen times to get to a picture of the area of interest. If I now leave
> this image to select another store the unit zooms out to include my home
> as well as the selected store and I have to go through the whole zoom in
> thing again.

Have you tried changing the Auto Zoom setting to Off? I think that will
leave you at your last zoom setting until you change that by zooming in
or out.

> Another point: I frequently choose to setup a route in some spare
> moments. This route may well be from A to B while I am sitting at C. C
> may be very far away from both A and B and utterly irrelevant to the
> problem of interest. Thus my example elsewhere in this thread -
> plotting a route from Amsterdam to Berlin while sitting in Fairbanks.
> Automatically including Fairbanks as a starting point (with no way to
> remove it) is definitely counter productive.

If you have only A and B in the route as waypoints, and choose to Map
(not Navigate) the route from the Route description from the Route Page,
and have the Auto Zoom on, you'll only see the route from A to B when
you "map" it.

The business of the GPS wanting to get you to the first waypoint in the
route is an inherent behavior. You can amend or play with that a little
bit by going to the Satellite Page, turning the GPS off, and then
setting a new start location. That will let you see routes from places
other than where you are.

If you have a lot of patience you can also have it demo routes that way
too but it is very slow if the route is of any length. If there is a
way to make the demo run faster that I've not found yet.

<snip>
> I understand and, to a large extend, agree with showing a whole route as
> an initial zoom value but even that is largely counter productive on a
> hand-held. e.g. Seattle to Miami.

It gives the consumer that "warm, fuzzy feeling" that their route is
about where they think it is.

> Note: This is my fourth GPS. The first was a very simple Magellan...
<snip>

We have similar evolutions and backgrounds then. I didn't spend any
time navigating from aircraft though.

The Navy would allow enlisted people to do the navigation on aircraft
carriers with thousands of souls embarked and many millions of Dollars
involved. But if you put a few people in an airplane you had to add a
officer to do the navigation. I couldn't help but noticing that that we
losing more airplanes than aircraft carriers.

Regards,

Jack (A retired Navy Chief) :> )

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Ted Edwards

2007-08-25, 10:33 pm

John Tserkezis wrote:
> I think that they're just so bedazzled as to what technology can do,
> they turn off their common sense.

I bet they also run Windoze. I see you have taken one of the options. :-)

Ted (eCS 2.0 RC1)

Ted Edwards

2007-08-26, 10:33 pm

Jack Erbes wrote:
> Have you tried changing the Auto Zoom setting to Off? I think that will
> leave you at your last zoom setting until you change that by zooming in
> or out.

Yes. I tried it but it made no difference.

> If you have only A and B in the route as waypoints, and choose to Map
> (not Navigate) the route from the Route description from the Route Page,
> and have the Auto Zoom on, you'll only see the route from A to B when
> you "map" it.

Nope. Worse, it only shows straight line segment(s) from waypoint to
waypoint with no offer to follow roads.

> The business of the GPS wanting to get you to the first waypoint in the
> route is an inherent behavior.

That makes sense when you select Navigate but not for Map. Problem then
is the above comment.

> The Navy would allow enlisted people to do the navigation on aircraft
> carriers with thousands of souls embarked and many millions of Dollars
> involved. But if you put a few people in an airplane you had to add a
> officer to do the navigation. I couldn't help but noticing that that we
> losing more airplanes than aircraft carriers.

In a sort of analogous way, if you want to know about drug interactions,
ask your pharmacist not your doctor. However, in defense of the Navy,
the carrier is moving in only 2D and things do happen slower.:-)

Ted

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