GPS - Man using GPS drives into path of train

Author

Man using GPS drives into path of train

Ramon F Herrera

2008-01-04, 10:33 pm

"BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. - A Global Positioning System can tell a driver a
lot of things -- but apparently not when a train is coming.

A computer consultant driving a rental car drove onto train tracks
Wednesday using the instructions his GPS unit gave him. A train was
barreling toward him, but he escaped in time and no one was injured."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/

-RFH

FransK

2008-01-04, 10:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> "BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. - A Global Positioning System can tell a driver a
> lot of things -- but apparently not when a train is coming.
>
> A computer consultant driving a rental car drove onto train tracks
> Wednesday using the instructions his GPS unit gave him. A train was
> barreling toward him, but he escaped in time and no one was injured."
>
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/
>
> -RFH

Apart from the electric chair there are few devices that can cure human
stupidity.

Han

2008-01-04, 10:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote in news:69d01898-6f19-4457-a774-
5bed083b0ad2@f3g2000
hsg.googlegroups.com:

>
> "BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. - A Global Positioning System can tell a driver a
> lot of things -- but apparently not when a train is coming.
>
> A computer consultant driving a rental car drove onto train tracks
> Wednesday using the instructions his GPS unit gave him. A train was
> barreling toward him, but he escaped in time and no one was injured."
>
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/
>
> -RFH
>
According to a radio report I heard, the man will be liable for the damages
to the train and track (several 100 K IIRC, WCBS 880, NY, but it is not on
their website). He should be sued too by the delayed train riders. No
excuse on a clear day.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Edwin Pawlowski

2008-01-04, 10:33 pm

"Ramon F Herrera" <ramon@conexus.net> wrote in message
news:69d01898-6f19-4457-a774- 5bed083b0ad2@f3g2000
hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> "BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. - A Global Positioning System can tell a driver a
> lot of things -- but apparently not when a train is coming.
>
> A computer consultant driving a rental car drove onto train tracks
> Wednesday using the instructions his GPS unit gave him. A train was
> barreling toward him, but he escaped in time and no one was injured."
>
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/
>
> -RFH
>

One can only hope he is not capable of reproducing

Pieter

2008-01-05, 7:33 am

I used to live in that town - grew up there. The area is full of yuppies
commuting to NY city and (now) multi-million dollar homes and no common
sense. Hopefully some of them will wash out of town on the latest wave of
bad news from Wall Street.
My wife spotted this article in our local paper, but with a bit more info.
As can be seen. the guy is a "computer consultant", and I believe he was
identified as being from CA. Figures he wouldn't know the shotcomings of
GPS. By the way, he was issued a ticket for obstructing a crossing, so he
is liable I guess.
It will be interesting to see what happens if he is sued, cause he will have
to claim its the GPSs fault for instructing him to make a turn onto the
tracks. So the case will come down to a jury deciding if listening to a
voice from a GPS telling you to commit suicide is reasonable behavior. Sure
hope the profit margin on making GPSs is big, 'cause morons like this could
erode it fast with stupid law suits.

"Han" <nobody@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1BD15EB533
0ikkezelf@199.45.49.11...
> Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote in news:69d01898-6f19-4457-a774-
> 5bed083b0ad2@f3g2000
hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> According to a radio report I heard, the man will be liable for the
> damages
> to the train and track (several 100 K IIRC, WCBS 880, NY, but it is not on
> their website). He should be sued too by the delayed train riders. No
> excuse on a clear day.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

Bob Gardner

2008-01-05, 12:33 pm

The general aviation industry lives with this every day....a pilot makes a
dumb decision and dies, and his family/estate sues the airplane
manufacturer, the engine manufacturer, the FAA, the National Weather
Service, the waitress at the airport coffee shop, etc etc etc.

Bob Gardner

"Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
news:477f67ce$0$8844
$4c368faf@roadrunner
.com...
>I used to live in that town - grew up there. The area is full of yuppies
>commuting to NY city and (now) multi-million dollar homes and no common
>sense. Hopefully some of them will wash out of town on the latest wave of
>bad news from Wall Street.
> My wife spotted this article in our local paper, but with a bit more info.
> As can be seen. the guy is a "computer consultant", and I believe he was
> identified as being from CA. Figures he wouldn't know the shotcomings of
> GPS. By the way, he was issued a ticket for obstructing a crossing, so he
> is liable I guess.
> It will be interesting to see what happens if he is sued, cause he will
> have to claim its the GPSs fault for instructing him to make a turn onto
> the tracks. So the case will come down to a jury deciding if listening to
> a voice from a GPS telling you to commit suicide is reasonable behavior.
> Sure hope the profit margin on making GPSs is big, 'cause morons like this
> could erode it fast with stupid law suits.
>
>
> "Han" <nobody@nospam.not> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A1BD15EB533
0ikkezelf@199.45.49.11...
>
>

ben brugman

2008-01-05, 3:33 pm

> It will be interesting to see what happens if he is sued, cause he will
> have
> to claim its the GPSs fault for instructing him to make a turn onto the
> tracks. So the case will come down to a jury deciding if listening to a
> voice from a GPS telling you to commit suicide is reasonable behavior.
> Sure hope the profit margin on making GPSs is big, 'cause morons like this
> could erode it fast with stupid law suits.
>

I am not a law person, and I do understand that in the US a lot of redicules
claims are made.

But driving on a railroad track is an safety issue, GPS navigation systems
should not be used for safety issues, but for direction only. The windows in
de car (there are still windows in the cars in US I hope) should be used for
the safety issues. The windows are designed to look through and after
looking through them making dicisions on in which direction to drive in
general safety should be considered first, navigation into the correct
direction should be considered next.

But as said I am not a specialist in US law, so do doubt this message.

Ben

>
> "Han" <nobody@nospam.not> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A1BD15EB533
0ikkezelf@199.45.49.11...
>
>

Han

2008-01-05, 10:33 pm

"ben brugman" <ben@niethier.nl> wrote in
news:3184c$477ff614$
53557893$24417@cache
100.multikabel.net:

> I am not a law person, and I do understand that in the US a lot of
> redicules claims are made.
>
> But driving on a railroad track is an safety issue, GPS navigation
> systems should not be used for safety issues, but for direction only.
> The windows in de car (there are still windows in the cars in US I
> hope) should be used for the safety issues. The windows are designed
> to look through and after looking through them making dicisions on in
> which direction to drive in general safety should be considered first,
> navigation into the correct direction should be considered next.
>
> But as said I am not a specialist in US law, so do doubt this message.
>
> Ben
>

Ja, jij kan praten als Brugman, maar je bent inderdaad niet hier.
(bedoeld als grapje)

http://www.google.com/search? q=pra...+brugman

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Martin Hunt

2008-01-05, 10:33 pm

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:26:32 +0100, "ben brugman" <ben@niethier.nl>
wrote:

>
>
>I am not a law person, and I do understand that in the US a lot of redicules
>claims are made.
>
>But driving on a railroad track is an safety issue, GPS navigation systems
>should not be used for safety issues, but for direction only. The windows in
>de car (there are still windows in the cars in US I hope) should be used for
>the safety issues. The windows are designed to look through and after
>looking through them making dicisions on in which direction to drive in
>general safety should be considered first, navigation into the correct
>direction should be considered next.
>
>But as said I am not a specialist in US law, so do doubt this message.
>
>Ben

As the Navman web site says (under hints and tips): "And don’t forget,
your Navman is a navigation aid, not an autopilot!"

I have had my unit for a short time, and have found a number of places
in the suburbs where the intersection information is not correct. What
it thinks is a turn and what I know is a turn are not necessarily the
same thing. The unit assumes a reasonable amount of common sense.

[color=darkred]
>
>
--
Martin Hunt
Ngaio
Wellington
New Zealand

NickTheBatMan

2008-01-06, 4:33 am

On 4 Jan, 23:03, Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
> "BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. - A Global Positioning System can tell a driver a
> lot of things -- but apparently not when a train is coming.
>
> A computer consultant driving a rental car drove onto train tracks
> Wednesday using the instructions his GPS unit gave him. A train was
> barreling toward him, but he escaped in time and no one was injured."
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/
>
> -RFH

Sorry if this appears several times, having problems posting via
posting via Google groups - no I don't want to go back to using a
proper program to do it thanks...

This link to the proper news article was found in the other Sat Nav NG
sci.geo.satellite-nav http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/...EWS02/801040377

Hope it doesn't wrap too badly, I'm sure you can fix it if it does...

Holger Issle

2008-01-06, 7:33 am

Hi Pieter,

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 06:20:14 -0500, "Pieter" wrote:

> I used to live in that town - grew up there. The area is full of yuppies
> commuting to NY city and (now) multi-million dollar homes and no common
> sense.

Maybe the road was after crosing the rail, and that was what the
device meant to use?
--

Ciao,
Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100)

90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm
95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 69 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!)

cu @ http://www.issle.de

Han

2008-01-06, 7:33 am

Holger Issle <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in
news:itd1o3tg5ari6gj
8unscfr2igtn0vssqsk@
4ax.com:

> Hi Pieter,
>
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 06:20:14 -0500, "Pieter" wrote:
>
>
> Maybe the road was after crosing the rail, and that was what the
> device meant to use?

The GPS which I have used (and the books I've read) all state that GPS
maps can be wrong, outdated, or inappropriate. You need to adapt to
local conditions, use "common sense" (however rare and uncommon that
might be), and judgment.

As example, almost all mapping services used to guide the innocent driver
down a oneway street (Abbot Rd in Fair Lawn, NJ) in the wrong direction.
Apparently this is now corrected, at least on Google. I would venture to
guess that on any GPS with data dating to before mid 2007, this would not
be handled correctly. When you get to such a situation, you would be
advised not to follow the GPS directions! At least, I would hope that
you will not try to follow Essex street across Rt 17 in Lodi, NJ, since
they removed the viaduct for reconstruction - driving across Rt 17 now
requires flying!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Edwin Pawlowski

2008-01-06, 7:33 am

"Holger Issle" <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in message
news:itd1o3tg5ari6gj
8unscfr2igtn0vssqsk@
4ax.com...
> Hi Pieter,
>
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 06:20:14 -0500, "Pieter" wrote:
>
>
> Maybe the road was after crosing the rail, and that was what the
> device meant to use?
> --

I'd say that was probably the case. There is a TV commercial where a guy
goes into the window of a restaurant when his Navigations system says "turn
right now". Who'd have thought someone would actually be that dumb? But
there are lots of them.

Pieter

2008-01-06, 7:33 am

I know the exact spot - its a perpendicular (road is 90 degrees to 2 tracks)
level crossing with flashing lights and gates. 100 feet after the crossing,
you could take a turn onto a parkway. 100 feet before the crossing you
could take a turn onto a cross street. The railroad crossing is well
marked, sits out in the open with no buildings hiding it. The street he
must have been on is a fairly narrow two lane local county road that carries
relatively light traffic, mostly those entering the parkway.

The only "logical" possibility it that the GPS spoke or signaled a turn in
advance of the physical intersection (onto the parkway or other street), and
combined with the normal GPS error budget would have encouraged him to turn
onto the tracks.

But how could you miss the signs and lights, not to mention the ties and
rails? The railroad right of way is very obvious where the accident
occurred. Even the barely breathing could figure out that a car isn't
supposed to run on rails. The only reasonable explanation is that the
operator is a moron.

"Holger Issle" <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in message
news:itd1o3tg5ari6gj
8unscfr2igtn0vssqsk@
4ax.com...
> Hi Pieter,
>
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 06:20:14 -0500, "Pieter" wrote:
>
>
> Maybe the road was after crosing the rail, and that was what the
> device meant to use?
> --
>
> Ciao,
> Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100)
>
> 90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm
> 95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 69 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!)
>
> cu @ http://www.issle.de

Han

2008-01-06, 7:33 am

"Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in
news:4780d11c$0$4966
$4c368faf@roadrunner
.com:
[color=darkred]
> I know the exact spot - its a perpendicular (road is 90 degrees to 2
> tracks) level crossing with flashing lights and gates. 100 feet after
> the crossing, you could take a turn onto a parkway. 100 feet before
> the crossing you could take a turn onto a cross street. The railroad
> crossing is well marked, sits out in the open with no buildings hiding
> it. The street he must have been on is a fairly narrow two lane local
> county road that carries relatively light traffic, mostly those
> entering the parkway.
>
> The only "logical" possibility it that the GPS spoke or signaled a
> turn in advance of the physical intersection (onto the parkway or
> other street), and combined with the normal GPS error budget would
> have encouraged him to turn onto the tracks.
>
> But how could you miss the signs and lights, not to mention the ties
> and rails? The railroad right of way is very obvious where the
> accident occurred. Even the barely breathing could figure out that a
> car isn't supposed to run on rails. The only reasonable explanation
> is that the operator is a moron.
>
> "Holger Issle" <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in message
> news:itd1o3tg5ari6gj
8unscfr2igtn0vssqsk@
4ax.com...
<snip>
I'll repeat the url of a newspaper article with a photo of the situation:
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20080104/NEWS02/801040377

and this is the location on yahoo maps:
http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=41...mag=3&q1=green%
2C%20new%20bedford%2
C%20NY

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Holger Issle

2008-01-06, 12:33 pm

Hi,

> I'll repeat the url of a newspaper article with a photo of the situation:
> http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
> AID=/20080104/NEWS02/801040377
>
> and this is the location on yahoo maps:
> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=41...mag=3&q1=green%
> 2C%20new%20bedford%2
C%20NY

no surprise the man missed the situation - 7 pm, most likely dark or
poor sight, not used to the place, and the nav aid told him turn right
now.
--

Ciao,
Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100)

90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm
95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 69 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!)

cu @ http://www.issle.de

Han

2008-01-06, 12:33 pm

Holger Issle <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in
news:6j12o3hnnojjb98
fboharepf96e58di0uk@
4ax.com:

> no surprise the man missed the situation - 7 pm, most likely dark or
> poor sight, not used to the place, and the nav aid told him turn right
> now.
>
I don't know how you can say that. There seem to be signs that there is
a railroad crossing. It was NOT rainy that evening (IIRC), and moreover,
if you are unfamiliar with the area, you should be doubly careful. If he
came from CA, and was staying in Fishkill NY, he should have known by the
time he came to New Bedford, that Westchester is NOT easy to navigate,
and that you better be careful.

I'm not saying the RR crossing could not be improved, but driving onto
the tracks at that point ... Jeeshh!!

Then people are stupid, as I too often observe at the Fair Lawn Ave RR
crossing (Radburn Fair Lawn station) here:
<[url]http://maps.google.com/maps?near=Radburn- Fair+Lawn+Station+%[
/url]
4040.939200,-74.121500&geocode=&q=station&f=l&ie=UTF8&ll=40.949825,-
74.121494&spn=0.056658,0.077591&z=13&iwloc=A&om=1>

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Pieter

2008-01-06, 12:33 pm

As I mentioned in a prior post, I grew up there and in fact used that very
crossing many times. If you look at the article about it, the picture
shows crossing gates and lights. It is out in the open and clearly visbile
from both directions. Likely he was trying to turn onto the Saw Mill River
Parkway which is just to the west of the railroad crossing about 50
yards.However, the gates, lights, and oh yes - rails should have been a dead
giveaway.

"Han" <nobody@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1D7CA38D3C
7ikkezelf@199.45.49.11...
> Holger Issle <Holger@Issle.de> wrote in
> news:6j12o3hnnojjb98
fboharepf96e58di0uk@
4ax.com:
>
> I don't know how you can say that. There seem to be signs that there is
> a railroad crossing. It was NOT rainy that evening (IIRC), and moreover,
> if you are unfamiliar with the area, you should be doubly careful. If he
> came from CA, and was staying in Fishkill NY, he should have known by the
> time he came to New Bedford, that Westchester is NOT easy to navigate,
> and that you better be careful.
>
> I'm not saying the RR crossing could not be improved, but driving onto
> the tracks at that point ... Jeeshh!!
>
> Then people are stupid, as I too often observe at the Fair Lawn Ave RR
> crossing (Radburn Fair Lawn station) here:
> <[url]http://maps.google.com/maps?near=Radburn- Fair+Lawn+Station+%[
/url]
> 4040.939200,-74.121500&geocode=&q=station&f=l&ie=UTF8&ll=40.949825,-
> 74.121494&spn=0.056658,0.077591&z=13&iwloc=A&om=1>
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

Holger Issle

2008-01-06, 3:33 pm

Pieter,

> However, the gates, lights, and oh yes - rails should have been a dead
> giveaway.

Fully agree on that. By the time he realized the error it was too
late. And yes, one *should* realize earlier... we don't know what he
saw when driving in and where his thoughts were at the time.

We have a similar crossing closeby, and I saw a guy driving across
even the lights were flashing and the train coming. Fortunately he
made it. Some people are just stupid.
--

Ciao,
Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100)

90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm
95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 69 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!)

cu @ http://www.issle.de

Nick Danger

2008-01-06, 10:33 pm

See
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/...377/1020/NEWS04
for a more detailed story.
I drive by this intersection every day on the way to/from work. It's well
marked and has gates, so it's not clear why it's so dangerous. A few years
ago, a car carrier truck got stuck there, but that's another issue. Trucks
are not allowed on the parkways around here, but that restriction is not
always very clearly posted. Usually they end up hitting a low overpass. The
low overpasses were put there intentionally in the early-mid 20th century by
Robert Moses, who decided the parkways should be for nice respectable
families to have a day in the country, and wanted to make sure that dirty
smelly trucks and the dirty smelly people who drive them would never spoil
that peaceful day in the country. In the case of the truck that got stuck on
the tracks, the driver was about to get on the parkway, got halfway across
the tracks and realized he wasn't supposed to be there, and then stopped and
threw it into reverse, and discovered he couldn't move either way.

In another case a few years back, the gate closed, the lights were flashing,
and a car went around the gate and got hit by a train. Most people just
assumed this was some arrogant yuppie who considered himself too important
to wait like everyone else. It turned out the driver was a 78-year-old woman
who had a long history of doing volunteer work and helping others in every
way possible - and was quite alert and competent to drive. No one was ever
able to explain why she went around the gate.

As for cars turning onto the tracks instead of onto the parkway (even if the
GPS apparently told them to), this is hard to understand. I've known this
intersection for decades, so I'm not qualified to comment on how it is for
someone unfamiliar with it. I've had cases where the GPS gave me an order
and it was unclear what I was supposed to do, so I could understand that
there would be some confusion. But if enough people make the same stupid
move and get into major accidents, then the reasonable thing to do is to
change something at that spot, rather than just keep blaming them for being
stupid. Most streets in this area are not lighted. Maybe what is needed is a
few lights, so people can see better. Blaming GPSs might have some validity
but doesn't help solve the problem. Most of the GPSs on the road will stay
in use for several years and will never have their maps or software updated.
An improvement has to be made at the site. I would recommend that the gates,
instead of rotating on the z axis, should rotate on the y axis. That way,
when they're not blocking the road, they'll be blocking the tracks. If a
gate malfunctions, the train will drive through it. It won't do much damage
to the train, but it will alert the engineer that there's a problem.

Interestingly, on the Danbury line in Connecticut, there are several grade
crossings that don't even have a gate - just flashing lights. One of those
crossings is just before an uphill stretch where trains sometimes get stuck
spinning their wheels on wet leaves during the fall. At such times, they
often bypass the Branchville station so they can get up a good head of steam
and come blasting through the crossing at full speed. Yet there never seem
to be any accidents there.

Pieter

2008-01-07, 7:33 am

Nick:

I was born in Mt. Kisco, grew up in Bedford Hills and Katonah, had friends
on Green Lane (the road in question). I make frequent visits to the area,
and use Green Lane often. I agree with your remarks about that crossing.

The articles seem to SUGGEST, but not state, that the operators lack of
familirity with the rental car, newness to the area, and the use of a GPS
all may have been contributing factors. I'll assume from the fact that he
was a computer consultant employed or contracted by IBM that he is of normal
mental and pysiological abilities.

In fact, we don't have any specific detail beyond that he was "depending on
satellites for directions" to suggest GPS played any part in this. As a
group, we are making an assumption about his behavior. If it did play a
part, the most likely scenerio (to me anyway) is that the GPS spoke or
otherwise indicated a turn was coming up - probably he intended to turn onto
the Saw Mill parkway just beyond the tracks. (I assume that's the road you
use for your commute too). When the GPS indicated a turn, he turned
immediately, while on the tracks. But that is, of course, speculation on my
part. As you point out in the case of the lady hit by a train, there is no
obvious reason why she did what she did.

"Nick Danger" <yourname@yourdomain.com> wrote in message
news:478116a3$0$9155
$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> See
> http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/...377/1020/NEWS04
> for a more detailed story.
> I drive by this intersection every day on the way to/from work. It's well
> marked and has gates, so it's not clear why it's so dangerous. A few years
> ago, a car carrier truck got stuck there, but that's another issue. Trucks
> are not allowed on the parkways around here, but that restriction is not
> always very clearly posted. Usually they end up hitting a low overpass.
> The low overpasses were put there intentionally in the early-mid 20th
> century by Robert Moses, who decided the parkways should be for nice
> respectable families to have a day in the country, and wanted to make sure
> that dirty smelly trucks and the dirty smelly people who drive them would
> never spoil that peaceful day in the country. In the case of the truck
> that got stuck on the tracks, the driver was about to get on the parkway,
> got halfway across the tracks and realized he wasn't supposed to be there,
> and then stopped and threw it into reverse, and discovered he couldn't
> move either way.
>
> In another case a few years back, the gate closed, the lights were
> flashing, and a car went around the gate and got hit by a train. Most
> people just assumed this was some arrogant yuppie who considered himself
> too important to wait like everyone else. It turned out the driver was a
> 78-year-old woman who had a long history of doing volunteer work and
> helping others in every way possible - and was quite alert and competent
> to drive. No one was ever able to explain why she went around the gate.
>
> As for cars turning onto the tracks instead of onto the parkway (even if
> the GPS apparently told them to), this is hard to understand. I've known
> this intersection for decades, so I'm not qualified to comment on how it
> is for someone unfamiliar with it. I've had cases where the GPS gave me an
> order and it was unclear what I was supposed to do, so I could understand
> that there would be some confusion. But if enough people make the same
> stupid move and get into major accidents, then the reasonable thing to do
> is to change something at that spot, rather than just keep blaming them
> for being stupid. Most streets in this area are not lighted. Maybe what is
> needed is a few lights, so people can see better. Blaming GPSs might have
> some validity but doesn't help solve the problem. Most of the GPSs on the
> road will stay in use for several years and will never have their maps or
> software updated. An improvement has to be made at the site. I would
> recommend that the gates, instead of rotating on the z axis, should rotate
> on the y axis. That way, when they're not blocking the road, they'll be
> blocking the tracks. If a gate malfunctions, the train will drive through
> it. It won't do much damage to the train, but it will alert the engineer
> that there's a problem.
>
> Interestingly, on the Danbury line in Connecticut, there are several grade
> crossings that don't even have a gate - just flashing lights. One of those
> crossings is just before an uphill stretch where trains sometimes get
> stuck spinning their wheels on wet leaves during the fall. At such times,
> they often bypass the Branchville station so they can get up a good head
> of steam and come blasting through the crossing at full speed. Yet there
> never seem to be any accidents there.
>

Edwin Pawlowski

2008-01-07, 10:33 pm

"Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
> I'll assume from the fact that he was a computer consultant employed or
> contracted by IBM that he is of normal mental and pysiological abilities.
>

Or he was like a driver here in CT that drove into a building last week. He
just got his license back two days earlier. He lost it when he drove into a
building a few months back.

Charles

2008-01-08, 10:33 am

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
>
>
>
> Or he was like a driver here in CT that drove into a building last week. He
> just got his license back two days earlier. He lost it when he drove into a
> building a few months back.
>
>
Being a computer consultant he surely wasn't deep in thought and
conversation on his blutooth headset. Surely , nobody does that. HA HA
Charles

larry@fishing.net

2008-01-08, 10:33 pm

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500, "Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com>
wrote:
Ok, enough about the idiot! Lets hear what the fishing is like in
Muskoot, Amawalk, Cross River, Titicus, Croton, etc.

Did I spell any of them correctly? I used to fish there 50 years ago.

>Nick:
>
>I was born in Mt. Kisco, grew up in Bedford Hills and Katonah, had friends
>on Green Lane (the road in question). I make frequent visits to the area,
>and use Green Lane often. I agree with your remarks about that crossing.

Pieter

2008-01-09, 7:33 am

I don't know how the fishing is. These days there are more police patroling
the water supply than folks fishing in it. I wonder how difficult it is to
get a permit post 9/11? Some members of my family live near the Cross River
resevoir.

<larry@fishing.net> wrote in message
news:2668o39l9o2sl8j
t2iu7k2844bks4ber5c@
4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500, "Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com>
> wrote:
> Ok, enough about the idiot! Lets hear what the fishing is like in
> Muskoot, Amawalk, Cross River, Titicus, Croton, etc.
>
> Did I spell any of them correctly? I used to fish there 50 years ago.
>
>
>

WayneC

2008-01-09, 10:33 pm

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 07:50:17 -0600, Charles wrote:

> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> Being a computer consultant he surely wasn't deep in thought and
> conversation on his blutooth headset. Surely , nobody does that. HA HA
> Charles

Just a thought and certainly not a new one. Reading the above I'm
thinking about the need to use "hands free" devices when talking on a
cell phone when driving. Well I don't know about you but for me, from
experience, the DISTRACTING THING is the conversation, not holding the
phone. (Be kinda like saying it's ok to drink while driving as long as
you do it through a straw). I don't know about you but holding a phone to
my ear takes about two good brain cells. Holding a coherent, intelligent
conversation takes much more (at least 20).

Edwin Pawlowski

2008-01-09, 10:33 pm

"WayneC" <wc@cw.net> wrote in message
> Just a thought and certainly not a new one. Reading the above I'm
> thinking about the need to use "hands free" devices when talking on a
> cell phone when driving. Well I don't know about you but for me, from
> experience, the DISTRACTING THING is the conversation, not holding the
> phone. (Be kinda like saying it's ok to drink while driving as long as
> you do it through a straw). I don't know about you but holding a phone to
> my ear takes about two good brain cells. Holding a coherent, intelligent
> conversation takes much more (at least 20).

Your argument has been proven. The hands free is of minimal help. It just
allows you to shave while talking on the phone.

I use one on occasion and it does help slightly as you are more easily able
to turn your head at an intersection, but if engaged in serious
conversation, you can still be distracted.

Tony Harding

2008-01-10, 4:33 am

Holger Issle wrote:
> Pieter,
>
>
> Fully agree on that. By the time he realized the error it was too
> late. And yes, one *should* realize earlier... we don't know what he
> saw when driving in and where his thoughts were at the time.
>
> We have a similar crossing closeby, and I saw a guy driving across
> even the lights were flashing and the train coming. Fortunately he
> made it. Some people are just stupid.

I'm new to this thread so sorry if this has already been answered - do
we know how far the guy drove on the RR tracks?

LinkBot