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Cellular forums Home > Archive > Garmin GPS > November 2005 > Vista C - NO NMEA! NO REAL TIME TRACKING
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Vista C - NO NMEA! NO REAL TIME TRACKING
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| I just went out and bought a brand new Vista C. Only to learn that I had
to spend an additional $130 on software that I can only use in very small
chunks on my handheld....Can I be wrong about this? I purchased "City
Navigator" after explaining what I wanted to do to the woman on the
phone. When she said the software only came in DVD form I realized that I
had to buy a DVD for my laptop. She lowerd the price a bit so I could get
it...That was nice.
Then I installed the software and tried to download my city (24.9 MB with
autorouting turned on. This didn't work. Then I turned auto routing off
(not knowing if I would miss it or not).
After that I tried to interface to my map program and it doesn't work.
WTF! After all that! This unit doesn't output the single standard NMEA
format!? Heck, even my $39 Nextel outputs NMEA....BUT IT WON'T CONNECT TO
THIS STUPID MAP! whaaaaaaaaaaa....
Now that I've sounded off...did I do something wrong?
I have already written to customer support.
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| Grumps 2005-11-03, 5:48 am |
| Rus wrote:
> I just went out and bought a brand new Vista C. Only to learn that I
> had to spend an additional $130 on software that I can only use in
> very small chunks on my handheld....Can I be wrong about this? I
> purchased "City Navigator" after explaining what I wanted to do to
> the woman on the phone. When she said the software only came in DVD
> form I realized that I had to buy a DVD for my laptop. She lowerd the
> price a bit so I could get it...That was nice.
>
> Then I installed the software and tried to download my city (24.9 MB
> with autorouting turned on. This didn't work. Then I turned auto
> routing off (not knowing if I would miss it or not).
>
> After that I tried to interface to my map program and it doesn't work.
> WTF! After all that! This unit doesn't output the single standard NMEA
> format!? Heck, even my $39 Nextel outputs NMEA....BUT IT WON'T
> CONNECT TO THIS STUPID MAP! whaaaaaaaaaaa....
>
> Now that I've sounded off...did I do something wrong?
You didn't post here first.
| |
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| "Grumps" < grumpsnothere@hotmai
l.com> wrote in news:3stqilFot36cU1
@individual.net:
> Rus wrote:
>
> You didn't post here first.
>
>
>
My bad...
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Rus wrote:
> I just went out and bought a brand new Vista C. Only to learn that I had
> to spend an additional $130 on software that I can only use in very small
> chunks on my handheld....Can I be wrong about this?
No. That's why some people buy units that have more memory.
> I purchased "City
> Navigator"
No, you purchased City Select. You couldn't get City Navigator for
$130, if you can buy it separately at all.
> Then I installed the software and tried to download my city (24.9 MB with
> autorouting turned on. This didn't work.
Apparently you figured out that's because your unit has only 24 MB of
memory, so:
> Then I turned auto routing off
You mean you didn't download the auto routing data, to reduce the size
of the download. Turning off auto routing would be something you would
do on the receiver.
> (not knowing if I would miss it or not).
Depends on whether you would want directions, address lookup, or
business locations in the area where you would be using it. If you
want those things, you'll miss having the auto routing data. You could
have just found a single map segment in an area where you don't travel
often and removed it from the download. That's probably all it would
have taken to get the selection small enough to fit, even with the auto
routing data.
> After that I tried to interface to my map program and it doesn't work.
I assume by this that you mean you attempted real-time tracking. You
didn't say which map program, but my guess is that you were using
MapSource (which would install with City Select). MapSource no longer
has the capability for real-time tracking; but nRoute does, and it is a
free download from Garmin.
> This unit doesn't output the single standard NMEA
> format!?
Nope, because it's USB only. From what I've read, you need a serial
connection for NMEA.
> Heck, even my $39 Nextel outputs NMEA....BUT IT WON'T CONNECT TO
> THIS STUPID MAP! whaaaaaaaaaaa....
I have no idea whether nRoute would accept the output from your phone,
but I think you can get it to do what you want with your Vista C, and
hopefully then you won't care about connecting your phone to it.
> Now that I've sounded off...did I do something wrong?
How about buying an expensive product without doing your homework or
working with a *knowledgeable* dealer who could have advised you what
unit you really needed to do the things you want to do. Speaking of
dealers, if the place you bought your receiver allows it, you might be
able to exchange your Vista C for a 60C or 76C that have more memory.
Your copy of City Select should have one unlock left that you could use
with another receiver. I doubt that there's any way to get back the
one you've already used on the Vista, and you can only unlock City
Select for two receivers.
> I have already written to customer support.
I hope you were more clear in what you wrote to them than you were in
your post here. I really had to read between the lines to figure out
what you probably meant. Other than advise you to use nRoute, I don't
think they'll be able to help you much. Sounds to me like everything
is working pretty much as it's supposed to.
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| "Roy" <roybassist@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1131075747.510100.208290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Rus wrote:
>
> No. That's why some people buy units that have more memory.
>
>
> No, you purchased City Select. You couldn't get City Navigator for
> $130, if you can buy it separately at all.
No I definately purchased "City Navigator"...v7 $130 I have the box right
in front of me.
>
>
> Apparently you figured out that's because your unit has only 24 MB of
> memory, so:
>
Yea...that's right. Had I known this was going to be a limitation I would
have purchased something else. At the moment I am ~$400 into this (unit +
SW). I do not think that was inexpensive for these features.
A friend spend a similar amount and got a palm top, software and a
bluetooth GPS unit. Bigger screen, real audio directions and a palm top PC
to boot. I almost went that way but selected the portability of the VistaC
for when I run or go out on my sailboat.
My complaint is that the Garmin web site says that you can download maps
and get routed directions. Hmmm...if you happen to only be interested in an
area small enough to fit into the sizable 24 MB memory. With 24MB of memory
I could have put every street in CA in my palmtop...without all the "Jack
in the box restaraunt tags".
I used to have a Sharp Palm Top with 16MB of total memory. I could use "MS
Streets 98" to select an amorphous (arbitrary) region of any size and
upload it to my palmtop.
City Navigator has relatively large regions (in the areas that are of
interest to me) and the particular region of interest is ~22 MB...if I
select the option to include auto routing data it won't fit. Requiring such
large regions to be downloaded and having to deal with "seams" is painful
after using the MS product...no seams. I could select 1 city block or an
entire state. Memory was not an issue for the areas I uploaded. My palm top
did not have GPS. GPS is not a software overhead so the mapping data should
be similar....so I thought.
>
> You mean you didn't download the auto routing data, to reduce the size
> of the download. Turning off auto routing would be something you
> would do on the receiver.
Yes...I turned off the auto routing data (deselected it in the SW) which
reduced the size of the download by ~4 MB. Thanks for the technical
correction.
>
>
> Depends on whether you would want directions, address lookup, or
> business locations in the area where you would be using it. If you
> want those things, you'll miss having the auto routing data. You
> could have just found a single map segment in an area where you don't
> travel often and removed it from the download. That's probably all it
> would have taken to get the selection small enough to fit, even with
> the auto routing data.
>
On City Navigator this (single map segments of small size) is not an
option. I have since called to complain and they Fed-Exd a copy of City
Select....Thereby turning me back into a Garmin fan.
This program does what I need. It interfaces (via nRoute {which is free})
to the GPS unit. In addition, the map segments are (generally) small enough
to select just the regions I want...again I do not understand the
fundamentals of why they need segmentation when the MS product did not.
Segmentation is not a desirable feature in my opinion. The only logic I
could come up with (segmented database updates) is negated by the fact that
they only update their software once a year.
>
> I assume by this that you mean you attempted real-time tracking. You
> didn't say which map program, but my guess is that you were using
> MapSource (which would install with City Select). MapSource no longer
> has the capability for real-time tracking; but nRoute does, and it is
> a free download from Garmin.
>
Now that I have it and have learned how to use it I have learned that what
I was attempting to do is called "real-time tracking". The SW Engine (Map
Source) is what I was trying to use in combination with the "City
Navigator" map database and this did not work.
I have since learned that nRoute will work with "City Select" which is why
Garmin shipped it to me for free the next day...great service. nRoute
allows you to select your map database.
>
> Nope, because it's USB only. From what I've read, you need a serial
> connection for NMEA.
hmmm...This unit does not send Serial NMEA data on the Universal SERIAL Bus
but my cell phone does. I still think this is stupid. It is likely fixable
with software...if Garmin writes the drivers....
>
>
> I have no idea whether nRoute would accept the output from your phone,
> but I think you can get it to do what you want with your Vista C, and
> hopefully then you won't care about connecting your phone to it.
>
>
> How about buying an expensive product without doing your homework or
> working with a *knowledgeable* dealer who could have advised you what
> unit you really needed to do the things you want to do. Speaking of
> dealers, if the place you bought your receiver allows it, you might be
> able to exchange your Vista C for a 60C or 76C that have more memory.
> Your copy of City Select should have one unlock left that you could
> use with another receiver. I doubt that there's any way to get back
> the one you've already used on the Vista, and you can only unlock City
> Select for two receivers.
>
>
> I hope you were more clear in what you wrote to them than you were in
> your post here. I really had to read between the lines to figure out
> what you probably meant. Other than advise you to use nRoute, I don't
> think they'll be able to help you much. Sounds to me like everything
> is working pretty much as it's supposed to.
>
They shipped "City Select", I downloaded nRoute and used it to drive around
town this evening. It worked as expected...
I do not agree with your assertion that a more expensive GPS is what was
needed. I have owned Garmin 45s that output NMEA and cost $145 back when
they were first coming out. NMEA is the GPS industry standard. Expecting a
GPS unit to output NMEA is akin to expecting a motherboard to have a PCI
bus. You don't even ask anymore...guess this was wrong...not dumb, just
wrong.
With forward product marketing practices (adding already present features
to your device for a price) running amuck I accept your valid point of
better research and thank you for your advice.
| |
| David Lee 2005-11-05, 5:48 pm |
| Rus
> hmmm...This unit does not send Serial NMEA data on the Universal SERIAL
> Bus
> but my cell phone does. I still think this is stupid. It is likely fixable
> with software...if Garmin writes the drivers....
A fix would be to buy a cheap basic yellow etrex from eBay and use that as a
source of NMEA data.
David
| |
|
| Rus wrote:
> This unit does not send Serial NMEA data on the Universal SERIAL Bus
> but my cell phone does. I still think this is stupid. It is likely fixable
> with software.
The GPSGate software program converts the Garmin protocol used by the
VistaC to NMEA for use by other programs, see:
http://franson.com/gpsgate/
That'll work if you're trying to get the VistaC to communicate with a
PC program that needs NMEA, but won't be of much help for connecting to
a chartplotter, auto-pilot, radar, EPIRB, VHF radio, etc.
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Rus wrote:
> "Roy" <roybassist@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1131075747.510100.208290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> No I definately purchased "City Navigator"...v7 $130 I have the box right
> in front of me.
Ptooey!! Excuse me a minute while I spit out some of this crow I'm
eating. My apologies, Rus. The *upgrades* for City Navigator used to
cost $150. I was aware that the price on the upgrades had recently
dropped to $75, but I still couldn't imagine that they had dropped the
*purchase price* to $130. Just to be extra sure, I tried before I
posted to check the price for it on the web site of a good dealer, but
didn't find it for sale by itself, which reinforced my (obviously
mistaken) thought that maybe it was only available bundled with one of
the units that it is really intended for. I was wrong on all counts,
and I apologize.
> Yea...that's right. Had I known this was going to be a limitation I would
> have purchased something else.
Well it wouldn't have been as much of one if they had sold you the
correct product for your Vista C! (As it appears you now realize,
judging from the rest of your post.) Whoever did that *seriously*
screwed up.
> At the moment I am ~$400 into this (unit +
> SW). I do not think that was inexpensive for these features.
>
> A friend spend a similar amount and got a palm top, software and a
> bluetooth GPS unit. Bigger screen, real audio directions and a palm top PC
> to boot. I almost went that way but selected the portability of the VistaC
> for when I run or go out on my sailboat.
I'd say that was a wise decision. The palmtop probably wouldn't have
been rugged enough for running and sailing.
> My complaint is that the Garmin web site says that you can download maps
> and get routed directions. Hmmm...if you happen to only be interested in an
> area small enough to fit into the sizable 24 MB memory. With 24MB of memory
> I could have put every street in CA in my palmtop...without all the "Jack
> in the box restaraunt tags".
> I used to have a Sharp Palm Top with 16MB of total memory. I could use "MS
> Streets 98" to select an amorphous (arbitrary) region of any size and
> upload it to my palmtop.
> City Navigator has relatively large regions (in the areas that are of
> interest to me) and the particular region of interest is ~22 MB...if I
> select the option to include auto routing data it won't fit. Requiring such
> large regions to be downloaded and having to deal with "seams" is painful
> after using the MS product...no seams. I could select 1 city block or an
> entire state. Memory was not an issue for the areas I uploaded. My palm top
> did not have GPS. GPS is not a software overhead so the mapping data should
> be similar....so I thought.
I can't account for why the palmtop seems to be more efficient with the
map memory. This is the first time I've heard that, and I'm somewhat
surprised. But if that was your experience, it's easier to understand
why you thought the 24 MB of the Vista C would be enough.
> On City Navigator this (single map segments of small size) is not an
> option.
Right. My statement was based on my erroneous belief that you actually
had City Select instead of City Navigator. My bad!
> I have since called to complain and they Fed-Exd a copy of City
> Select....Thereby turning me back into a Garmin fan.
That's pretty open-minded of you under the circumstances.
> again I do not understand the
> fundamentals of why they need segmentation when the MS product did not.
> Segmentation is not a desirable feature in my opinion.
I don't understand why they segment the maps either, and I agree that
it would be better if you could just select *any* area you want up to
the memory limit of your receiver for download. Someone who seems to
be reliable for posting accurate information recently posted that
Magellan doesn't do the segmentation. So it does make one wonder.
> The only logic I
> could come up with (segmented database updates) is negated by the fact that
> they only update their software once a year.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
> I have since learned that nRoute will work with "City Select" which is why
> Garmin shipped it to me for free the next day...great service.
So do I understand correctly that it was *Garmin* that erroneously sold
you CN instead of CS?! You *should* have been able to depend on *them*
to sell you the right product!! I don't suppose they also offered to
refund you the difference in purchase price between CN and CS? Seems
like they should, since they sold you the wrong product to begin with,
and it is more expensive than the right one.
> hmmm...This unit does not send Serial NMEA data on the Universal SERIAL Bus
> but my cell phone does. I still think this is stupid. It is likely fixable
> with software...if Garmin writes the drivers....
I'm pretty sure I remember reading a post from someone (who is also
generally reliable for accurate information) saying that he didn't see
why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.
> They shipped "City Select"
I'd say they owed you that...and I was wrong *again*!
> I downloaded nRoute and used it to drive around
> town this evening. It worked as expected...
>
> I do not agree with your assertion that a more expensive GPS is what was
> needed. I have owned Garmin 45s that output NMEA and cost $145 back when
> they were first coming out. NMEA is the GPS industry standard. Expecting a
> GPS unit to output NMEA is akin to expecting a motherboard to have a PCI
> bus. You don't even ask anymore...guess this was wrong...not dumb, just
> wrong.
Point taken. My reference to the 60C(S) and 76C(S) was only because
you seemed to need more onboard memory, not the NMEA issue. As David
Lee has pointed out, there are actually *less* expensive models that
output NMEA, but they won't necessarily do all of the other things your
Vista C will.
> With forward product marketing practices (adding already present features
> to your device for a price) running amuck I accept your valid point of
> better research and thank you for your advice.
Again, you are being open-minded and rather generous. I was
unnecessarily harsh in my previous post, something I now regret, and
you have responded with great courtesy. For that you have my respect,
admiration and gratitude; and I resolve to be more diplomatic in future
posts. I'm glad things are working better for you now.
| |
|
| "Roy" <roybassist@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1131250991.761173.101800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> Rus wrote:
>
> Ptooey!! Excuse me a minute while I spit out some of this crow I'm
> eating. My apologies, Rus. The *upgrades* for City Navigator used to
> cost $150. I was aware that the price on the upgrades had recently
> dropped to $75, but I still couldn't imagine that they had dropped the
> *purchase price* to $130. Just to be extra sure, I tried before I
> posted to check the price for it on the web site of a good dealer, but
> didn't find it for sale by itself, which reinforced my (obviously
> mistaken) thought that maybe it was only available bundled with one of
> the units that it is really intended for. I was wrong on all counts,
> and I apologize.
>
>
> Well it wouldn't have been as much of one if they had sold you the
> correct product for your Vista C! (As it appears you now realize,
> judging from the rest of your post.) Whoever did that *seriously*
> screwed up.
>
>
> I'd say that was a wise decision. The palmtop probably wouldn't have
> been rugged enough for running and sailing.
>
>
> I can't account for why the palmtop seems to be more efficient with
> the map memory. This is the first time I've heard that, and I'm
> somewhat surprised. But if that was your experience, it's easier to
> understand why you thought the 24 MB of the Vista C would be enough.
>
>
> Right. My statement was based on my erroneous belief that you
> actually had City Select instead of City Navigator. My bad!
>
>
> That's pretty open-minded of you under the circumstances.
>
>
> I don't understand why they segment the maps either, and I agree that
> it would be better if you could just select *any* area you want up to
> the memory limit of your receiver for download. Someone who seems to
> be reliable for posting accurate information recently posted that
> Magellan doesn't do the segmentation. So it does make one wonder.
>
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
>
>
> So do I understand correctly that it was *Garmin* that erroneously
> sold you CN instead of CS?! You *should* have been able to depend on
> *them* to sell you the right product!! I don't suppose they also
> offered to refund you the difference in purchase price between CN and
> CS? Seems like they should, since they sold you the wrong product to
> begin with, and it is more expensive than the right one.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure I remember reading a post from someone (who is also
> generally reliable for accurate information) saying that he didn't see
> why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.
>
>
> I'd say they owed you that...and I was wrong *again*!
>
>
> Point taken. My reference to the 60C(S) and 76C(S) was only because
> you seemed to need more onboard memory, not the NMEA issue. As David
> Lee has pointed out, there are actually *less* expensive models that
> output NMEA, but they won't necessarily do all of the other things
> your Vista C will.
>
>
> Again, you are being open-minded and rather generous. I was
> unnecessarily harsh in my previous post, something I now regret, and
> you have responded with great courtesy. For that you have my respect,
> admiration and gratitude; and I resolve to be more diplomatic in
> future posts. I'm glad things are working better for you now.
>
Thanks to all the excellent feedback. I went sailing yesterday and the
little VistaC worked out well. The accuracy is mind boggling. I was even
able to stay on track with the unit down below deck. The fiberglass
doesn't seem to stop the signal...or there are enough windows in my boat
to allow the signal through.
My point about segmentation is that the only advantage I see in
segmentation would be to allow segmented updates. Since Garmin only
updates once a year (I think) then the segmented updates would not matter
since they package everything at once.
A possible reason that it is segmented is that it would allow the
developers (programmers) to build the data sets independently and to
minimize the (code) resolution required for large open areas. Really, I
have no idea. If this is the case, they could merge the data to a single
format (would require more work) and allow us users to select any portion
we want. I imagine that merging the data would require the same
resolution (of data) for all segments...which should be of little concern
if the data is compressed efficiently....now I'm playing deep...I really
have no idea why they segment the data.
Anyway I am moderately happy with the unit. As with some of my favorite
restaurants, I will give a "thumbs up" for the service and the jury is
still out on the product.
I am going to try to take it skiing in a few weeks to see how it does on
the slopes.
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