Garmin GPS - RE: 60x + 76x track transfer

Author

RE: 60x + 76x track transfer

gps_dr

2006-10-15, 10:33 pm

If you want to talk features of the Meridian vs the Garmin 76/60x
series you need to remember the many inadequacies of the Meridian:
Only 1 stinking tracklog
Only one unit in series had external antenna capability.
Color unit stunk in daylight
No proximity points
No autorouting on basemap or beyond 64MB region.
Poorer battery life

The Magellan Explorists have 5 tracks now, but the Garmins have 10 on
grayscale and 20 on color.
No Explorists have external antenna connection. They do have a nifty
directory file structure.

Garmin has the best technical support and updates in the consumer GPS
industry. They make updates to resolve issues, where Magellan and
Lowrance users have to wait and wait and wait...

It would be great if they added the ability to transfer
routes|waypoints|tra
cks easily to/from the memory.
The structure they have built on uses up to 10K for the active track
and upt to 500 points for each of the 20 saveable tracks.
Restoring a longer track would require overwriting the active track
without a major re-engineering of code. Not many would prefer to loose
the active track to restore a longer un-named track.
I am not privy to the internal software engineering tradeoffs regarding
displayable points vs speed. I prefer being able to have many tracks
available for display at a somewhat lower resolution than a couple
longer tracks. I would love to see the ability for it to recognize
what track is under the cursor like they do waypoints, POIs &
mapfeatures. Magellan doesn't have that feature either, Lowrance does.
When you have more than a couple tracks, it is a very useful feature.
The Garmin current method of allowing you to shadow the track to memory
allows you all the resolution you need for analysis and mapping.
With manual editing using DeLorme software, I've been able to represent
fairly accurately 18-25 mile tracks with the 250 point limit on my
Garmin 76.
A metric century track using the Platte river, Highline canal and
Cherry Cr trails made me really square off some corners on the windy
canal trail.

I'm looking forward to recieving my 76CSx from Garmin.
My vintage 1998 version 2 12XL still works, and my plain-jane 76 has
been reliable over the last few years mapping bike trails.

Jack Erbes

2006-10-17, 12:33 pm

gps_dr wrote:

> If you want to talk features of the Meridian vs the Garmin 76/60x
> series you need to remember the many inadequacies of the Meridian:
> Only 1 stinking tracklog

But it did have an ability monitor the track memory used and let you
save the track to the SD card as often as you wanted.

> Only one unit in series had external antenna capability.

It did have a very good antenna though, and you could get one that was
capable of using an external if you felt you needed it. That was a
little better than a line that had no external antenna capabilities at all.

> Color unit stunk in daylight

Mine didn't stink. But it could be a little hard to see with direct
sunlight on it unless you turned the backlight off and held it at the
right angle. It is only in the hindsight of better displays that the
Meridian Color looks bad to me now.

My 76Cx display is much better but it needs to be a full brightness in
day light and gets a little obscure with the sun at certain angles. I'm
using it atop a tank bag on a motorcycle and it works fine. In the car,
down on the console out of the sun, and with the audible alarms turned
on, it is wonderful.

> No proximity points

I still have not found a good use for those as opposed to a regular
waypoint. I can see my waypoints on the display (if I want to) and can
tell by looking at them if they are in my proximity. Is there some kind
of game where you use a GPS blindfolded and if you hear a alarm you get
to take it off and look at the GPS?

> No autorouting on basemap or beyond 64MB region.

No autorouting on the basemap was truly a deficiency but I didn't
realize it until Garmin implemented the feature.

The last version of DirectRoute North America would create and use 124mb
(128mb?) regions. Not being able to route across regions was an
inconvenience but not a killer in use.

But it was a plus that on a Meridian you could store as many regions as
you could fit on an SD card and choose from them as you went along. On
my 76Cx I have either go back to MapSource on a PC and compile and
upload a new map file to change regions, change to a microSD card with a
different region, or carry a number of previously made map files with
me, find a PC, and replace the region file in use with another.

> Poorer battery life

Compared to what? I thought the battery life on the Meridians I owned
was acceptable enough, especially on the monochrome Meridian Marine.
Again, battery life related to the electronics of the day. If Magellan
had been aggressively pursuing hardware upgrades as well as Garmin is,
their battery life would have gotten better (instead of worse) with
SporTraks and eXplorists.

> The Magellan Explorists have 5 tracks now, but the Garmins have 10 on
> grayscale and 20 on color.

The Garmin 10 or 20 saved tracks are not the best feature of the Garmins
as far as saving tracks goes. If I turn the Log Track to Data Card
check box on, every track point collected every day is saved in a *.gpx
file on the microSD card as long as their is room on the card. And the
*.gpx file contains all the track data (fix, date/time, and elevation).

Garmin starts showing it ineptitude at using tracks and track data when
you realize that the *.gpx file can be seen in MapSource but cannot be
back loaded to or used on the GPS itself except in a shortened format.

The 20 saved tracks are in only a gutted out representation of the track
in memory at the time of saving. You lose most of the trackpoints
except as used to summarize the track.

> No Explorists have external antenna connection. They do have a nifty
> directory file structure.

And not as good as antenna too, right? Didn't they lose the quadrifilar
helix antenna too? And then left off several of the 12 pages that were
on the Meridian too? Truly a monument to newer and better equating to
lesser and dumber. Or maybe a dying gasp from a company that had failed
to compete and was losing the market? It drove me "out of the fold".

> Garmin has the best technical support and updates in the consumer GPS
> industry. They make updates to resolve issues, where Magellan and
> Lowrance users have to wait and wait and wait...

Garmin has much better support but it is certainly not faultless. They
are way better on fixing their boo boo's but they frankly don't seem to
give a damn at implementing simple fixes or add ons for features that
were left out or screwed up during the software design.

It was painfully obvious that my my Meridian was not perfect and the
eXplorist was not going to be an upgrade. The Garmin looked better, I
bought one (76Cx) and it is better. But it is far from perfect.

And I seem to find a pervasive sense of greed in the way that Garmin
packages and sells mapping packages. They are by far the leading
seller, they have the data pretty well under control and packaged, if
there was more competition in consumer GPS market maybe the high to
semi-outrageous prices on mapping could be lower and maybe some more
consideration could or would be shown to those that bought Garmin
hardware and mapping products in the past.

> It would be great if they added the ability to transfer
> routes|waypoints|tra
cks easily to/from the memory.

It does sort of makes you wonder if anyone at Garmin looked at a
Meridian in the process of designing it, doesn't it?

> The structure they have built on uses up to 10K for the active track
> and upt to 500 points for each of the 20 saveable tracks.
> Restoring a longer track would require overwriting the active track
> without a major re-engineering of code. Not many would prefer to loose
> the active track to restore a longer un-named track.

But it might not be a bad feature to offer, right? And if you're
logging the tracks to the microSD card all the track data for the day is
saved when you turn the unit off (maybe even when you clear the track
memory, I'm not sure). So "losing the active track" may be a moot point
and would be for sure if I could save it to the expansion memory.

Then if I had a track previously saved to the microSD card (if I could
do that), or knew a track I wanted to look at again was in one of the
*.gpx files on the microSD card, implementing a feature that allows me
to load it back into the track memory would be great.

I'm a big boy, if I stupidly trash the in memory track data without
saving it first, that's my fault. I can live with the risk.

> I am not privy to the internal software engineering tradeoffs regarding
> displayable points vs speed. I prefer being able to have many tracks
> available for display at a somewhat lower resolution than a couple
> longer tracks.

To me it is like taking digital photos, take them at a high resolution
or quality and you can always use them later at lower (smaller, faster
loading, etc.) settings. What you can't do is go to a higher quality
from a lower one.

Looking at the trackpoint collection rates offered in the 76Cx I'd have
to say it is nothing short of wonderful for a consumer grade product.
If you're doing something at sustained higher speeds and for longer
periods of time you might find it uses the track memory up too quickly
but otherwise it is great. And if you're logging it to the microSD card
you get in all in the *.gpx file even if the track memory starts
overwriting itself.

> I would love to see the ability for it to recognize
> what track is under the cursor like they do waypoints, POIs &
> mapfeatures. Magellan doesn't have that feature either, Lowrance does.

The 76Cx lets you distinguish a saved track from the memory track by
color when you "map" it or turn its display check box on (only one saved
track at a time of course). And you can back track to or from a point
in the displayed track but I think it is using the cursor's location, as
juxtaposed visually on the track, as the starting point.

If you follow along a saved track with your cursor, you'll occasionally
get a information display pop up. I've only noticed elevations pop up
so far when doing that and don't know if that is done for all the
trackpoints in the saved track or what.

> When you have more than a couple tracks, it is a very useful feature.
> The Garmin current method of allowing you to shadow the track to memory
> allows you all the resolution you need for analysis and mapping.
<snip>

When you say memory, you're talking about the *.gpx files, right? I
agree that it appears to be a powerful tool.

And I'm not arguing with you, I'm just discussing.

I'm still waiting for a handheld much like the 76Cx is (or the Meridians
were) that will let me easily use mapping from open architectures like
NOAA, USGS, etc. Yes, I expect to pay a little more for the privilege
or not getting gouged every year or two for updated mapping data but I
think it will be worth that to me.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

gps_dr

2006-11-23, 4:33 am

Hi Jack,
I finally received my 76CSX last week. Display worked great on my
bike today.
I did prefer the option to use 3 small data fields on my plain 76,
didn't take up as much screen space.
My Garmin MapSource worked fine with the new GPS. DeLorme Topo USA 6
appeared to transfer my track data, but then froze the application.
Word is that Garmin changed the USB protocol on the new X models.
Was hoping Garmin had added the ability to recognize saved tracks
under the cursor like it does other features on the display. Lowrance
does, but neither Garmin or Magellan do.
They also seemed to have changed the "Accuracy cirlce" from my old
unit. Now it shows a circle well over 500 feet when EPE shows 15 feet.
The plain 76, seemed to follow EPE better.
I didn't utilize the track shadowing, it would have eliminated a step
in getting the track data into DeLorme for editing. I limit my bike
trail tracks to less than 250 points per track to keep them usable on
more units. DeLorme has been my software of choice for tweaking the
tracks. Then I view the resulting track in Google Earth to check if I
blew it somewhere.

Happy GPSing
Bob

Jack Erbes wrote:
> gps_dr wrote:
>
>
> But it did have an ability monitor the track memory used and let you
> save the track to the SD card as often as you wanted.
>
>
> It did have a very good antenna though, and you could get one that was
> capable of using an external if you felt you needed it. That was a
> little better than a line that had no external antenna capabilities at all.
>
>
> Mine didn't stink. But it could be a little hard to see with direct
> sunlight on it unless you turned the backlight off and held it at the
> right angle. It is only in the hindsight of better displays that the
> Meridian Color looks bad to me now.
>
> My 76Cx display is much better but it needs to be a full brightness in
> day light and gets a little obscure with the sun at certain angles. I'm
> using it atop a tank bag on a motorcycle and it works fine. In the car,
> down on the console out of the sun, and with the audible alarms turned
> on, it is wonderful.
>
>
> I still have not found a good use for those as opposed to a regular
> waypoint. I can see my waypoints on the display (if I want to) and can
> tell by looking at them if they are in my proximity. Is there some kind
> of game where you use a GPS blindfolded and if you hear a alarm you get
> to take it off and look at the GPS?
>
>
> No autorouting on the basemap was truly a deficiency but I didn't
> realize it until Garmin implemented the feature.
>
> The last version of DirectRoute North America would create and use 124mb
> (128mb?) regions. Not being able to route across regions was an
> inconvenience but not a killer in use.
>
> But it was a plus that on a Meridian you could store as many regions as
> you could fit on an SD card and choose from them as you went along. On
> my 76Cx I have either go back to MapSource on a PC and compile and
> upload a new map file to change regions, change to a microSD card with a
> different region, or carry a number of previously made map files with
> me, find a PC, and replace the region file in use with another.
>
>
> Compared to what? I thought the battery life on the Meridians I owned
> was acceptable enough, especially on the monochrome Meridian Marine.
> Again, battery life related to the electronics of the day. If Magellan
> had been aggressively pursuing hardware upgrades as well as Garmin is,
> their battery life would have gotten better (instead of worse) with
> SporTraks and eXplorists.
>
>
> The Garmin 10 or 20 saved tracks are not the best feature of the Garmins
> as far as saving tracks goes. If I turn the Log Track to Data Card
> check box on, every track point collected every day is saved in a *.gpx
> file on the microSD card as long as their is room on the card. And the
> *.gpx file contains all the track data (fix, date/time, and elevation).
>
> Garmin starts showing it ineptitude at using tracks and track data when
> you realize that the *.gpx file can be seen in MapSource but cannot be
> back loaded to or used on the GPS itself except in a shortened format.
>
> The 20 saved tracks are in only a gutted out representation of the track
> in memory at the time of saving. You lose most of the trackpoints
> except as used to summarize the track.
>
>
> And not as good as antenna too, right? Didn't they lose the quadrifilar
> helix antenna too? And then left off several of the 12 pages that were
> on the Meridian too? Truly a monument to newer and better equating to
> lesser and dumber. Or maybe a dying gasp from a company that had failed
> to compete and was losing the market? It drove me "out of the fold".
>
>
> Garmin has much better support but it is certainly not faultless. They
> are way better on fixing their boo boo's but they frankly don't seem to
> give a damn at implementing simple fixes or add ons for features that
> were left out or screwed up during the software design.
>
> It was painfully obvious that my my Meridian was not perfect and the
> eXplorist was not going to be an upgrade. The Garmin looked better, I
> bought one (76Cx) and it is better. But it is far from perfect.
>
> And I seem to find a pervasive sense of greed in the way that Garmin
> packages and sells mapping packages. They are by far the leading
> seller, they have the data pretty well under control and packaged, if
> there was more competition in consumer GPS market maybe the high to
> semi-outrageous prices on mapping could be lower and maybe some more
> consideration could or would be shown to those that bought Garmin
> hardware and mapping products in the past.
>
>
> It does sort of makes you wonder if anyone at Garmin looked at a
> Meridian in the process of designing it, doesn't it?
>
>
> But it might not be a bad feature to offer, right? And if you're
> logging the tracks to the microSD card all the track data for the day is
> saved when you turn the unit off (maybe even when you clear the track
> memory, I'm not sure). So "losing the active track" may be a moot point
> and would be for sure if I could save it to the expansion memory.
>
> Then if I had a track previously saved to the microSD card (if I could
> do that), or knew a track I wanted to look at again was in one of the
> *.gpx files on the microSD card, implementing a feature that allows me
> to load it back into the track memory would be great.
>
> I'm a big boy, if I stupidly trash the in memory track data without
> saving it first, that's my fault. I can live with the risk.
>
>
> To me it is like taking digital photos, take them at a high resolution
> or quality and you can always use them later at lower (smaller, faster
> loading, etc.) settings. What you can't do is go to a higher quality
> from a lower one.
>
> Looking at the trackpoint collection rates offered in the 76Cx I'd have
> to say it is nothing short of wonderful for a consumer grade product.
> If you're doing something at sustained higher speeds and for longer
> periods of time you might find it uses the track memory up too quickly
> but otherwise it is great. And if you're logging it to the microSD card
> you get in all in the *.gpx file even if the track memory starts
> overwriting itself.
>
>
> The 76Cx lets you distinguish a saved track from the memory track by
> color when you "map" it or turn its display check box on (only one saved
> track at a time of course). And you can back track to or from a point
> in the displayed track but I think it is using the cursor's location, as
> juxtaposed visually on the track, as the starting point.
>
> If you follow along a saved track with your cursor, you'll occasionally
> get a information display pop up. I've only noticed elevations pop up
> so far when doing that and don't know if that is done for all the
> trackpoints in the saved track or what.
>
> <snip>
>
> When you say memory, you're talking about the *.gpx files, right? I
> agree that it appears to be a powerful tool.
>
> And I'm not arguing with you, I'm just discussing.
>
> I'm still waiting for a handheld much like the 76Cx is (or the Meridians
> were) that will let me easily use mapping from open architectures like
> NOAA, USGS, etc. Yes, I expect to pay a little more for the privilege
> or not getting gouged every year or two for updated mapping data but I
> think it will be worth that to me.
>
> Jack
>
> --
> Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
> (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

marika

2006-11-23, 3:33 pm

gps_dr wrote:

> My Garmin MapSource worked fine with the new GPS. DeLorme Topo USA 6
> appeared to transfer my track data, but then froze the application.
> Word is that Garmin changed the USB protocol on the new X models.
> Was hoping Garmin had added the ability to recognize saved tracks
> under the cursor like it does other features on the display. Lowrance
> does, but neither Garmin or Magellan do.

I just saw an episode of the Closer, where the teenager was
significantly autistic and they solved the crime because he was fixated
on GPS coordinates.

They are showing the Closer today in marathon, so I guess it could be
caught again this weekend.

mk5000

"The year 1783 which gave independence to America crowded
the prisons to a degree never before known."--Knapp and Baldwin,
Newgate Calendar

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