Garmin GPS - Garmin nuvi Antenna Question

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Garmin nuvi Antenna Question

Guy Quinn

2006-11-23, 12:33 pm

I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at (i.e.
350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back. I am
thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where my
ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I don't need
to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.

Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit to
function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna might
improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?

Thanks!

Seth

2006-11-23, 12:33 pm

"Guy Quinn" <OR.GN.LG.Q@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6al9h.38595$si3.3900@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at
> (i.e. 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the
> back. I am thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the
> area where my ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That
> way, I don't need to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on
> the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit
> to function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna
> might improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?

More than likely, where you're talking about putting it, it won't make a
difference. You'll get poor reception with it open or closed and need an
external antenna.

John Richards

2006-11-23, 3:33 pm

"Guy Quinn" <OR.GN.LG.Q@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6al9h.38595$si3.3900@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at (i.e.
> 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back. I am
> thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where my
> ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I don't need
> to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit to
> function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna might
> improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?

It won't receive any satellite signals with the antenna un-extended.

--
John Richards

Mike Henry

2006-11-23, 3:33 pm

"Guy Quinn" <OR.GN.LG.Q@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6al9h.38595$si3.3900@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at
> (i.e. 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the
> back. I am thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the
> area where my ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That
> way, I don't need to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on
> the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit
> to function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna
> might improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?

I don't know about the others but closing the antenna flap on the Nuvi 350
disables GPS reception. On occasion I've used my 350 with the unit just
sitting on a console between the front seats and haven't had a problem with
reception.

Mike

Jim Carter

2006-11-23, 3:33 pm

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:48:50 GMT, "Guy Quinn"
<OR.GN.LG.Q@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit to
>function?

There is an optional antenna for the Nuvi 350 that has a cord
long enough to reach from the console to the windscreen. I do
not know about the other units.

peter

2006-11-23, 3:33 pm

Guy Quinn wrote:
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at (i.e.
> 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back. I am
> thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where my
> ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I don't need
> to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit to
> function?

If you're positioning it so far from the window then I'd suggest using
an external antenna in any event and leave the internal one folded.
The nuvi series accepts active external antennas with MCX connectors.
Gilsson sells compatible ones that work very well for under $20 from
their GPSgeek eBay store.

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-23, 10:33 pm

Guy Quinn wrote:
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at (i.=
e=2E
> 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back. I=
am
> thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where my
> ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I don't n=
eed
> to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit=
to
> function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna might
> improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?
>
> Thanks!

Guy:

First of all, it seems to me that CA and MN perhaps forbid *handling*
the suction cups while the vehicle is in movement (duh! all states, and
common sense should forbid that!). Here is the Garmin wording:

--------
NOTICE TO DRIVERS IN CALIFORNIA AND MINNESOTA: State law prohibits
drivers in California and Minnesota from using suction mounts on their
windshields while operating motor vehicles. Other Garmin dashboard or
friction mounting options should be used. Garmin does not take any
responsibility for any fines, penalties, or damages that may be
incurred as a result of disregarding this notice. (See California
Vehicle Code Section 26708(a); Minnesota Statutes 2005, Section 169.71)
-------

As other posters have pointed out, when you fold the antenna (it
revolves around a hinge, like a door, not like a retractive antenna)
the n=FCvi software automatically turns the GPS reception off. When
used, the antenna should be in the horizontal position to maximize
reception.

In any event, IMO it is much better to mount the adhesive disk on the
dashboard as windshield mounting will block the view.

-Ramon

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-23, 10:33 pm

Guy Quinn wrote:
> That way, I don't need to worry about [...] sun glare on the display.

I have had 3 StreetPilots and I am currently using a SP2730 and a n=FCvi
660 simultaneously. The one thing I can tell you is that you don't have
to worry about glare, as the n=FCvi display is "brighter than a thousand
suns".

-Ramon F Herrera
using Garmin GPSs for 70K+ miles,
some 40 states, more than a year
on the road, and counting

apersson850

2006-11-24, 10:33 am

The screen on the N=FCvi 660 is brighter than what's present in the
smaller N=FCvi models.

None of the N=FCvis will work as GPS navigators unless you open the
antenna. The iQues have a similar solution, but there connecting an
external antenna is an alternative way to fire up the GPS receiver
part. That's not so with the N=FCvi, since the external antenna
connector is positioned in such a way that it can't be used with the
antenna closed.

Having the unit low down in the car is always inferior to having it
somewhere where you can look at it easily. Just imagine having the
speedometer on the floor...

Anders

mr physics

2006-11-24, 10:33 am

Guy Quinn wrote:
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at
> (i.e.
> 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back. I
> am
> thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where my
> ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I don't
> need
> to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the unit
> to
> function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna might
> improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?
>
> Thanks!

Consider a Pro-clip vent mount for your BMW. They are sturdy, relatively
unobtrusive, and don't need adhesives to function. Pro-clip has a mount
adapter for the Nuvi. Mine is an E46, but they have E90 mounts as well.

I find the adhesive dash-top too high, the windshield mount too far away for
convenient control, but the vent location about right so that I can see it
and my passenger can control it.

Greg

John Richards

2006-11-24, 12:33 pm

"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message news:1164332471.457801.293310@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> When
> used, the antenna should be in the horizontal position to maximize
> reception.

Is this true? The Nuvi owner's manual doesnn't say, but I assumed
that the antenna should point straight up for best reception.

> In any event, IMO it is much better to mount the adhesive disk on the
> dashboard as windshield mounting will block the view.

I agree. Also, the further you get it away from the windshield,
the less glare is reflected off the screen.

--
John Richards

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-24, 12:33 pm

John Richards wrote:
> "Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message news:1164332471.=
457801.293310@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is this true? The Nuvi owner's manual doesn't say, but I assumed
> that the antenna should point straight up for best reception.
>

This is what my manual says, John. I bought my n=FCvi 660 a few days
ago.

http://patriot.net/~ramon/misc/ nuv...enn
a.gif

-Ramon

tonylopez0429@comcast.net

2006-11-24, 3:33 pm

Hi Guy,

The antenna must be extended or you lose reception. I have 360 next to
my stick shift in my BMW X5 and haven't had any issues with reception as
long as the antenna is extended.

Guy Quinn:
> I'm considering one of the nuvi models. Of the 3 that I'm looking at
(i.e.
> 350, 360 or 660), they all appear to have an antenna flap in the back.
I am
> thinking of using it in my car, and letting it rest in the area where
my
> ashtray is located behind my stick shift (BMW 330i). That way, I
don't need
> to worry about suction cups (I'm in CA), or sun glare on the display.
>
> Is it absolutely necessary for these antennae to be extended for the
unit to
> function? Or, is it like a cell phone, where extending the antenna
might

> improve reception but it still works fine with it un-extended?
>
> Thanks!

John Richards

2006-11-24, 3:33 pm

Thanks, Ramon.
For some strange reason my Nuvi 350 manual doesn't have that
"Basic Operation" page.

--
John Richards

"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message news:1164392698.100412.119230@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

John Richards wrote:
> "Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message news:1164332471.457801.293310@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is this true? The Nuvi owner's manual doesn't say, but I assumed
> that the antenna should point straight up for best reception.
>

This is what my manual says, John. I bought my nüvi 660 a few days
ago.

http://patriot.net/~ramon/misc/ nuv...enn
a.gif

Fred McKenzie

2006-11-25, 12:33 pm

In article <jcF9h.9390$6t.4926@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

> "Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
> news:1164332471.457801.293310@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is this true? The Nuvi owner's manual doesnn't say, but I assumed
> that the antenna should point straight up for best reception.

John-

It is true for this type of antenna.

Further, it doesn't receive signals very well through a metal roof.
Keeping it close to a window is to your advantage. On the other hand,
GPS doesn't need to see all the visible satellites to work. The more
you receive, the more accuracy you should have.

In theory, you can get by with three satellites. However, my Nuvi seems
to require reception of at least four to navigate.

Fred

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-25, 3:33 pm

Fred McKenzie wrote:
> In article <jcF9h.9390$6t.4926@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> John-
>
> It is true for this type of antenna.
>
> Further, it doesn't receive signals very well through a metal roof.
> Keeping it close to a window is to your advantage. On the other hand,
> GPS doesn't need to see all the visible satellites to work. The more
> you receive, the more accuracy you should have.
>
> In theory, you can get by with three satellites. However, my Nuvi seems
> to require reception of at least four to navigate.

The minimum number of satellites is 5. The StreetPilots allow you to
see a graph/chart with the satellites as they are being discovered,
and their locations in the sky. Haven't you noticed that the descending
vertical bars happen to be five? Until they are all filled, there is no
GPS action.

-Ramon

peter

2006-11-25, 10:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> Fred McKenzie wrote:
>
> The minimum number of satellites is 5. The StreetPilots allow you to
> see a graph/chart with the satellites as they are being discovered,
> and their locations in the sky.

No, the previous post is correct that three is the minimum. But in
that case the receiver will not be able to solve for the altitude and
will just assume that it has remained the same as it was at the last
time it had a good fix. If the real altitude is considerably different
then the calculated horizontal position will also be wrong. To get a
proper 3D fix, incl. altitude, requires reception of 4 satellite
signals so the receiver can solve for the 4 variables: lat., long.,
altitude, and time.
However, if the geometry of the satellites happens to be unfavorable,
such as having them all in almost a straight line, then it may be
necessary to get more than 4 signals before a position can be
calculated.

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-26, 7:33 am

peter wrote:
>
> No, the previous post is correct that three is the minimum.
>

We are talking about two related but different things.

In n-dimensional space, n points are needed to get the triangulation:

- With the coordinates of one point and a fixed radius, you get a
sphere.
- The second point defines the intersection of two spheres, which is
hopefully a circle.
- The third coordinate reduces the system to two points and after
ignoring one of them (*) for not being on earth's surface the location
is determined.

That's the theory. Now, the practice.

All the Garmin GPS units that I have had however, will report having
acquired the satellites and start operating only after five of them are
detected.

-Ramon

(*) True story: one day, a scientist solving an equation for mass chose
not to ignore the extra negative result from a square root. Any
physicist would have ignored it, but not Albert Einstein, and that's
how he discovered matter with negative mass, a.k.a. anti-matter.

peter

2006-11-26, 10:33 am

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> peter wrote:
>
> We are talking about two related but different things.
>
> In n-dimensional space, n points are needed to get the triangulation:
>
> - With the coordinates of one point and a fixed radius, you get a
> sphere.
> - The second point defines the intersection of two spheres, which is
> hopefully a circle.
> - The third coordinate reduces the system to two points and after
> ignoring one of them (*) for not being on earth's surface the location
> is determined.
>
> That's the theory.

Nope, the above would be the theory *if* the receiver had an accurate
(i.e. synchronized atomic) clock. Since it doesn't you don't actually
know the radius of the circle when you get the first satellite
reception and when you get two satellites you only know the difference
between the two radii, not their actual values.

The result is that you need reception of at least four satellite
signals to get a 3D position plus the accurate time.

> Now, the practice.
>
> All the Garmin GPS units that I have had however, will report having
> acquired the satellites and start operating only after five of them are
> detected.
>
> -Ramon

Don't know which particular models you have, but all the Garmin's that
I've used (45XL, III+, II+, eMap, V, assorted eTrexi, 60CSX) have
agreed with the threory and report a 2D position shortly after getting
a lock on 3 satellite signals and a 3D position when they lock onto a
4th. The rare exceptions have been on occasions when the satellite
geometry has been poor such as having all the initially received sats
in an almost straight line in which case an additional satellite or two
were needed.

> (*) True story: one day, a scientist solving an equation for mass chose
> not to ignore the extra negative result from a square root. Any
> physicist would have ignored it, but not Albert Einstein, and that's
> how he discovered matter with negative mass, a.k.a. anti-matter.

Two problems with the above being a true story. Antimatter has
positive mass (but opposite charges from normal matter), and it was
first proposed by Wehl and Dirac based on Dirac's relativistic quantum
mechanics equations, not Einstein.

tretep@gmail.com

2006-11-26, 10:33 am

Garmin now offers an "automotive mount" for the Nuvi series. It
includes a detachable base that's compatible with their ubiquitous
"bean bag". Mine works beautifully, is moveable and uses the same bean
bag I've used for years with my GPS-V. It eliminates any need for
suction cups and/or adhesive disks.

http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.js...815%2D01

pete

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-26, 12:33 pm

peter wrote:

>
> Don't know which particular models you have
>

I only buy the top of the line at the time they are introduced:

- StreetPilot 2610
- StreetPilot 2620
- StreetPilot 2730
- n=FCvi 660

I am currently using the last two concurrently.

-Ramon

Leonard

2006-11-26, 3:33 pm

When I boought the NUVI 350 it came with a suction cup mount AND a
plastic disc that you mount on your dashboard. Legal in ALL states.

I can't help but wonder why anyone would mount any GPS system in the
area of their ash tray or gear shift. Excellent way to wrap your BMW
around a tree.

I don't want to be driving around people looking down at their ash
tray. You want to kill yourself, fine, but don't kill me with you.

peter

2006-11-26, 10:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> peter wrote:
>
>
> I only buy the top of the line at the time they are introduced:
>
> - StreetPilot 2610
> - StreetPilot 2620
> - StreetPilot 2730
> - n=FCvi 660
>
> I am currently using the last two concurrently.

If they really will consistently not navigate when only 4 satellites
can be received then there's either a design flaw or your particular
unit is defective. Contact Garmin and let them know of the problem.

Ramon F Herrera

2006-11-26, 10:33 pm

peter wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>
> If they really will consistently not navigate when only 4 satellites
> can be received then there's either a design flaw or your particular
> unit is defective. Contact Garmin and let them know of the problem.

Upon closer examination, right after reading your postings, I found
instances where both units (SP2730 & n=FCvi 660) started working
properly before five satellites where acquired.

Thanks,

-Ramon

Jack Erbes

2006-11-26, 10:33 pm

Leonard wrote:
> When I boought the NUVI 350 it came with a suction cup mount AND a
> plastic disc that you mount on your dashboard. Legal in ALL states.
>
> I can't help but wonder why anyone would mount any GPS system in the
> area of their ash tray or gear shift. Excellent way to wrap your BMW
> around a tree.
>
> I don't want to be driving around people looking down at their ash
> tray. You want to kill yourself, fine, but don't kill me with you.

Did you know that there are people out there who will take their eyes
off of the road to look down at things like controls levers and buttons,
instruments, radios, and the like?

I can glance at the display on my GPS (down on the console) and tell in
an instant what my next turn is and its name and distance. Not that
much different than glancing at the speedometer.

A GPS is not dangerous unless you make it dangerous.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

John Richards

2006-11-27, 3:33 pm

"Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:0aydndHTVeNG0vf
YnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Leonard wrote:
>
> Did you know that there are people out there who will take their eyes
> off of the road to look down at things like controls levers and buttons,
> instruments, radios, and the like?
>
> I can glance at the display on my GPS (down on the console) and tell in
> an instant what my next turn is and its name and distance. Not that
> much different than glancing at the speedometer.
>
> A GPS is not dangerous unless you make it dangerous.

It's all relative. It probably takes your eyes off the road for a quarter
of a second longer to glance at the ash tray/console area than glancing
at something on the dash. A lot can happen in that 1/4 second.

--
John Richards

Leonard

2006-11-28, 12:33 pm

I don't know where you drive, but here almost everyone is takling on a
cell phone. No one seems to use turn signals, and has no idea how too
dirve in the rain. God forbid it snows.

In plain language, people just don't pay any attention to what they are
doing. New York and a small number of other states banned the use of
cell phones without a hands free device. Have you seen anyone using
them, or are they just stuck to their heads?

Let me add a little more too what Jack said.

At highway speeds how far will a car travel in that so called 1/4
second? Actually it's more like 2-4 seconds.
I set the cruise control on my Corvette at 70mph. Lots of nice thinge
too look at in the area. More time lost. I don't know about a BMW, but
you DRIVE a Corvette. Play around with the ash tray and your dead.

The whole point is too be as safe as I can. I know my dirving, it's the
other driver that will get you killed.

Want to bet your life on a cell phone call someone is making or your
1/4 - 4 seconds playing with the GPS?

On Nov 27, 1:50 pm, "John Richards" <j...@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
> "Jack Erbes" <jacker...@adelphia.net> wrote in messagenews:0aydndHT
VeNG0vfYnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> of a second longer to glance at the ash tray/console area than glancing
> at something on the dash. A lot can happen in that 1/4 second.
>
> --
> John Richards- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

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