Garmin GPS - MicroSD Memory Size Decision

Author

MicroSD Memory Size Decision

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

There's been a fair bit of discussion of whether a 1 GB card will work
in the 60Cx etc.

My 512M card has about 450M loaded and pretty much everything I *expect*
to use. With a 1 Gig card I would add more to be sure, but I'm not sure
what.

And there is another factor: Loading time. If you want to add one map
segment, you must redo the entire load.

Planned a trip last night and discovered there were four segments from
TopoUSA I needed that were not loaded. So I had to redo the load.
Total time, including building index, map set and transfer was 45-50
minutes. With a 1 GB card, loaded to a similar extent (900 MB or so),
that time would have been doubled.

So, unless you can load every possible map segment you will ever use
into your 1 GB card, there is a downside: Longer time required to revise
your map load.

Will I get a 1 GB card eventually? Perhaps .. but the factor above will
weigh in the decision.

Phil

Bob

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

Bob wrote:
> Phil Wheeler wrote:
>
>
>
> Valid point. Did you load the map set via the GPSr or through a card
> reader? Garmin claims its faster via a reader.
>

GPSr .. yes it is faster through a card reader, but I regard the removal
and replacement of the card from the GPSR as a potential failure and
avoid doing it.

Phil

Jack Erbes

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

Phil Wheeler wrote:
> There's been a fair bit of discussion of whether a 1 GB card will work
> in the 60Cx etc.
>
> My 512M card has about 450M loaded and pretty much everything I *expect*
> to use. With a 1 Gig card I would add more to be sure, but I'm not sure
> what.
>
> And there is another factor: Loading time. If you want to add one map
> segment, you must redo the entire load.
>
> Planned a trip last night and discovered there were four segments from
> TopoUSA I needed that were not loaded. So I had to redo the load. Total
> time, including building index, map set and transfer was 45-50 minutes.
> With a 1 GB card, loaded to a similar extent (900 MB or so), that time
> would have been doubled.
>
> So, unless you can load every possible map segment you will ever use
> into your 1 GB card, there is a downside: Longer time required to revise
> your map load.
>
> Will I get a 1 GB card eventually? Perhaps .. but the factor above will
> weigh in the decision.

So you can't create a number of map files with adjacent, slightly over
lapping regions in advance, store them on the hard drive, and just copy
them to the card as needed?

Can you store multiple TopoUSA map region files (like I described above)
on the microSD card and choose from them from the 60Cx?

If MapSource does not offer the option of creating the files to the hard
drive, do you know if you can identify and copy the map region files
from the microSD card to your hard drive and copy them back later and
use them?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

miso@sushi.com

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

I thought only mapsource could be loaded on a Garmin GPS.

Jack Erbes wrote:
> Phil Wheeler wrote:
>
> So you can't create a number of map files with adjacent, slightly over
> lapping regions in advance, store them on the hard drive, and just copy
> them to the card as needed?
>
> Can you store multiple TopoUSA map region files (like I described above)
> on the microSD card and choose from them from the 60Cx?
>
> If MapSource does not offer the option of creating the files to the hard
> drive, do you know if you can identify and copy the map region files
> from the microSD card to your hard drive and copy them back later and
> use them?
>
> Jack
>
> --
> Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
> (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

GSV Three Minds in a Can

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

Bitstring <F8BRf.54$WK1.2@tornado.socal.rr.com>, from the wonderful
person Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng7@yahoo.com> said
>There's been a fair bit of discussion of whether a 1 GB card will work
>in the 60Cx etc.
>
>My 512M card has about 450M loaded and pretty much everything I
>*expect* to use. With a 1 Gig card I would add more to be sure, but
>I'm not sure what.
>
>And there is another factor: Loading time. If you want to add one map
>segment, you must redo the entire load.
>
>Planned a trip last night and discovered there were four segments from
>TopoUSA I needed that were not loaded. So I had to redo the load.
>Total time, including building index, map set and transfer was 45-50
>minutes. With a 1 GB card, loaded to a similar extent (900 MB or so),
>that time would have been doubled.
>
>So, unless you can load every possible map segment you will ever use
>into your 1 GB card, there is a downside: Longer time required to
>revise your map load.

Just load as much as you can onto the card, and then load a second card
with the rest of the planet (or whatever)?? That's what I plan to do -
when I'm road driving around the UK I need 512MB of road mapping (at
least). When I'm surveying FPs in Shropshire I need my Shropshire custom
maps (which gets recompiled and reloaded weekly, or even more often). So
I figure that's one big memory card with the road maps on, and a small
one for re-writing the custom maps quickly.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Carl Heinz

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:35:10 +0000, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Just load as much as you can onto the card, and then load a second card
>with the rest of the planet (or whatever)?? That's what I plan to do -
>when I'm road driving around the UK I need 512MB of road mapping (at
>least). When I'm surveying FPs in Shropshire I need my Shropshire custom
>maps (which gets recompiled and reloaded weekly, or even more often). So
>I figure that's one big memory card with the road maps on, and a small
>one for re-writing the custom maps quickly.

That's essentially what I do with the 2610. One card has UK and the
other has the US. Obviously different sized cards are used. :> )

Will probably do somewhat the same when I graduate from the 76C to a
76Cx, but waiting until larger MicroSD cards become available for the US
card.

Carl
--
Carl Heinz
cfheinz57@charter.net
(Remove number)

Jack Erbes

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

miso@sushi.com wrote:

> I thought only mapsource could be loaded on a Garmin GPS.
>

TopoUSA (or Topo USA) is one of the MapSource products.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Helge Olav Helgesen

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:17:57 +0100, Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng7@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> My 512M card has about 450M loaded and pretty much everything I *expect*
> to use. With a 1 Gig card I would add more to be sure, but I'm not sure
> what.

I got at 512MB card myself and by now I use 370MB. That is topo maps,
almost entire scandinavia road maps and some BlueCharts.

So 512MB should be enough for anybody :P

> And there is another factor: Loading time. If you want to add one map
> segment, you must redo the entire load.

With City Navigator (as opposed to City Select) this is more of a problem
for me on my old GPS as each segment is about 12MB in size instead of 1MB.

> Planned a trip last night and discovered there were four segments from
> TopoUSA I needed that were not loaded. So I had to redo the load. Total
> time, including building index, map set and transfer was 45-50 minutes.
> With a 1 GB card, loaded to a similar extent (900 MB or so), that time
> would have been doubled.

I have a SD card reader in my laptop. I don't belive it takes that long
for me to make the 370MB of maps. But yeah - it takes some time. And think
how long it takes to search for an address if you don't limit the search!

Helge Olav Helgesen

2006-03-14, 5:48 pm

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:47:14 +0100, Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net>
wrote:

> So you can't create a number of map files with adjacent, slightly over
> lapping regions in advance, store them on the hard drive, and just copy
> them to the card as needed?

You can - but you need a storage card as a "temporary device" since
MapSource only writes to a GPS or a SD slot.

miso@sushi.com

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

Topo USA is a Delorme product. Mapsource US Topo is something
different.

http://www.delorme.com/topousa/
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo.jsp

I can't justify buying a new Garmin GPS if the only 24k maps are a few
state parks.

Jack Erbes wrote:
> miso@sushi.com wrote:
>
>
> TopoUSA (or Topo USA) is one of the MapSource products.
>
> Jack
>
> --
> Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
> (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Jack Erbes

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

miso@sushi.com wrote:

> Topo USA is a Delorme product. Mapsource US Topo is something
> different.
<snip>

Okay. I new the OP was talking about a MapSource product but I did not
realize the had the name wrong with I asked him a question about it and
used the same name.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

miso@sushi.com

2006-03-14, 11:48 pm

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 2:48 am

Jack Erbes wrote:
> Phil Wheeler wrote:
>
>
>
> So you can't create a number of map files with adjacent, slightly over
> lapping regions in advance, store them on the hard drive, and just copy
> them to the card as needed?
>
> Can you store multiple TopoUSA map region files (like I described above)
> on the microSD card and choose from them from the 60Cx?
>
> If MapSource does not offer the option of creating the files to the hard
> drive, do you know if you can identify and copy the map region files
> from the microSD card to your hard drive and copy them back later and
> use them?
>

I was not describing a problem. I have none. Intent was to discuss the
pros and cons of 512M vs. 1 GB in a general sense.

Phil

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 2:48 am

miso@sushi.com wrote:
> Topo USA is a Delorme product. Mapsource US Topo is something
> different.
>
> http://www.delorme.com/topousa/
> http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo.jsp
>
>
> I can't justify buying a new Garmin GPS if the only 24k maps are a few
> state parks.
>

Actually it is a few National parks.

So don't buy a new one.

Isaiah Beard

2006-03-15, 2:48 am

Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Planned a trip last night and discovered there were four segments from
> TopoUSA I needed that were not loaded. So I had to redo the load. Total
> time, including building index, map set and transfer was 45-50 minutes.

Imagine having to do the entire load via SERIAL port? *shudder*

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 2:48 am

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Phil Wheeler wrote:
>
>
>
> Imagine having to do the entire load via SERIAL port? *shudder*
>
>
>

Indeed: Yuck!

Dale DePriest

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:

> Bitstring <F8BRf.54$WK1.2@tornado.socal.rr.com>, from the wonderful
> person Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng7@yahoo.com> said
>
>
>
> Just load as much as you can onto the card, and then load a second card
> with the rest of the planet (or whatever)?? That's what I plan to do -
> when I'm road driving around the UK I need 512MB of road mapping (at
> least). When I'm surveying FPs in Shropshire I need my Shropshire custom
> maps (which gets recompiled and reloaded weekly, or even more often). So
> I figure that's one big memory card with the road maps on, and a small
> one for re-writing the custom maps quickly.
>

Transflash chips are pretty fragile and not condusive to constant
swapping. You need to be very careful with these cards, particularly in
the 60Cx

--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

Dale DePriest wrote:
>
>
> GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
>
>
> Transflash chips are pretty fragile and not condusive to constant
> swapping. You need to be very careful with these cards, particularly in
> the 60Cx
>

Agree, Dale. That's why I will always load with the 60Cx, not a
(faster) card reader.

Phil

GSV Three Minds in a Can

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

Bitstring < 121gh7vhfssc883@corp
.supernews.com>, from the wonderful
person Dale DePriest <Dale@gpsinformation.het> said
<snip>
[color=darkred]
>
>Transflash chips are pretty fragile and not condusive to constant
>swapping. You need to be very careful with these cards, particularly in
>the 60Cx

Thanks for that input - have yet to actually get my hands on the new
machine to look for myself, but that sounds like a dumb design choice
then. Guess I may just have to buy a whole second 60CX unit instead. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 5:48 pm

GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
> Bitstring < 121gh7vhfssc883@corp
.supernews.com>, from the wonderful
> person Dale DePriest <Dale@gpsinformation.het> said
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for that input - have yet to actually get my hands on the new
> machine to look for myself, but that sounds like a dumb design choice
> then. Guess I may just have to buy a whole second 60CX unit instead. 8>.
>

Well, given the 512M cards are at most $50US, I believe, you could
destroy 10 or so before that became a reasonable trade off.

My guess they are not all that fragile, per se. They are tiny and R&R
in a 60Cx is a bit fussy. But if you only did it ocassionally, I doubt
it would be an issue.

I just don't want to remove the card only to load maps via a card
reader; a bit faster isn't worth it to me.

Phil

Helge Olav Helgesen

2006-03-15, 11:48 pm

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:46:01 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks for that input - have yet to actually get my hands on the new
> machine to look for myself, but that sounds like a dumb design choice
> then.

The cards are small and seems "plastic". I've had some trobules removing
the card from my SD/SDmicro adapter.

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-15, 11:48 pm

Helge Olav Helgesen wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:46:01 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
> <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> The cards are small and seems "plastic". I've had some trobules
> removing the card from my SD/SDmicro adapter.

Indeed: Sometimes "small" equates to "too small".

I have a pianist's hands, but the Transflash cards seem small to me ;)

Phil

miso@sushi.com

2006-03-16, 5:48 am

I'll hold off getting one of these GPSs that use SD until garmin sells
regular topo maps at 24k resolution.

Phil Wheeler wrote:
> miso@sushi.com wrote:
>
> Actually it is a few National parks.
>
> So don't buy a new one.

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-16, 5:48 pm

miso@sushi.com wrote:
> I'll hold off getting one of these GPSs that use SD until garmin sells
> regular topo maps at 24k resolution.
>
>

You will likely have a very long wait .. though they do have such maps
for National Parks, and such, in the 24K Topo series (three sets).

Covering the entire country at 24,000:1 would be quite a number of
disks, I suspect. For example, the NG Topo series for California only
is 10 CDs.

I'm a hiker and use the Garmin 100,000:1 topo series (which does cover
CONUS, Alaska and Hawaii) in my GPSRs. Really very useful, much more so
than I expected.

Phil

Seagull

2006-03-16, 5:48 pm

In alt.satellite.gps Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng7@yahoo.com> wrote:
> miso@sushi.com wrote:
> You will likely have a very long wait .. though they do have such maps
> for National Parks, and such, in the 24K Topo series (three sets).
>
> Covering the entire country at 24,000:1 would be quite a number of
> disks, I suspect.

Indeed. I've created Garmin GPS maps for the Portland, OR area that
are dervied from the 24K data and the map set size is at 7MB for only
26 quads. The equivalent area covered by the Garmin TOPO map set
taken from the 100K series is barely over 1 MB (and has wider coverage
to boot). And this is for the relatively "flat" regions of the Portland
Metro area. Jump over to the mountains and file sizes get really large,
really fast. "Quite a number of disks" is probably an understatement
to say the least.

Shameless plug: http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/

Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-16, 5:48 pm

Seagull wrote:
> In alt.satellite.gps Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Indeed. I've created Garmin GPS maps for the Portland, OR area that
> are dervied from the 24K data and the map set size is at 7MB for only
> 26 quads. The equivalent area covered by the Garmin TOPO map set
> taken from the 100K series is barely over 1 MB (and has wider coverage
> to boot). And this is for the relatively "flat" regions of the Portland
> Metro area. Jump over to the mountains and file sizes get really large,
> really fast. "Quite a number of disks" is probably an understatement
> to say the least.
>
> Shameless plug: http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/
>

Thanks for the "plug". When next in Portland, I will take a further
look. Nice city; lived there and Tigard for a couple of years and still
have relatives in Hillsboro.

Closest I will be this Summer is Eugene for a wedding (for which I am
paying); likely no hiking .. I plan to consume too much of "my" champagne :)

Phil

Jack Erbes

2006-03-16, 11:48 pm

Seagull wrote:

> Indeed. I've created Garmin GPS maps for the Portland, OR area that
> are dervied from the 24K data and the map set size is at 7MB for only
> 26 quads. The equivalent area covered by the Garmin TOPO map set
> taken from the 100K series is barely over 1 MB (and has wider coverage
> to boot). And this is for the relatively "flat" regions of the Portland
> Metro area. Jump over to the mountains and file sizes get really large,
> really fast. "Quite a number of disks" is probably an understatement
> to say the least.
>
> Shameless plug: http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/
>

Nice job Seagull! That is the kind of topo mapping I'd love to be able
to get for any Garmin or Magellan. Without spending a ton of money.

Can you do the same thing for the Magellans? Or describe the softwares
and process involved, just sort of an outline of it?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

z.entropic

2006-03-16, 11:48 pm

Phil Wheeler wrote:

> I'm a hiker and use the Garmin 100,000:1 topo series (which does cover
> CONUS, Alaska and Hawaii) in my GPSRs. Really very useful, much more so
> than I expected.

I agree; the best way to compare the two sets of topo maps is to take a
look at some area of interest using the Garmin site map viewer, do a
screen dump to another program, then compare to another dump of the
same area obtained using the second set of maps. The amount of detail
in 1:24,000 maps is not that much greater, and I'm veyr happy with my
1:100,00 US Topo maps (used on the nuvi!).

z.entropic

Phil Wheeler

2006-03-17, 2:48 am

z.entropic wrote:
> Phil Wheeler wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I agree; the best way to compare the two sets of topo maps is to take a
> look at some area of interest using the Garmin site map viewer, do a
> screen dump to another program, then compare to another dump of the
> same area obtained using the second set of maps. The amount of detail
> in 1:24,000 maps is not that much greater, and I'm veyr happy with my
> 1:100,00 US Topo maps (used on the nuvi!).
>

Well, I do prefer the 24K series when it has coverage. Contour info is
great at that scale. And trail info exceeds that on the latest printed
maps in most areas I've tested.

Phil

GSV Three Minds in a Can

2006-03-17, 11:48 pm

Bitstring < 121gh7vhfssc883@corp
.supernews.com>, from the wonderful
person Dale DePriest <Dale@gpsinformation.het> said
<snip>
>Transflash chips are pretty fragile and not condusive to constant
>swapping. You need to be very careful with these cards, particularly in
>the 60Cx

OK, it (60CSx) finally arrived, and I have to agree with you. The
transflash card looks slightly fragile. The metal holder for it (under
the batteries) looks like it was designed by the folks who also brought
you Mayfly wing joints. 8<,

Other comments .. the sensitivity is every bit as good as people claim,
although that does result in it 'walking' while on my desk .. several
dozen meters in one leap sometimes. I guess the multipath is getting to
it.

Also seems to have aversion to ESTB satellite (PRN33) - it locked for a
while, downloaded some differential corrections, and then decided to
quit playing - didn't look for any other birds (37 and 39 are sometimes
available, and a vanilla 60C/CS will cycle through everything from 33 to
51 .. to no avail), just gave up - looking for 11 GPS satellites, and a
-- where it could be hunting for WAAS/EGNOS/ESTB. The manual does say
something to the effect that it'll stop using WAAS if 'without' gives
better results.

Oh, and the new USB connectivity doesn't work with Tracklogs V2 (for our
UK users) .. only with V3.11 and up. I don't know what Tracklogs did
wrong, because it works like a hose with an extremely old version of
Oziexplorer (and, of course, with Mapsource).

Apart from that I'm well pleased. Redraw, and everything else, is pretty
snappy compared to a 60C. I could have done without the games, and with
the cartoon stile logos on the menu pages, but basically it's a nice
unit.

One other thing I noticed, when averaging waypoints the accuracy
estimate now (mostly) goes down over time, as more estimates are added.
With the 60C it would leap around all over the place, as if the accuracy
was only for the last point (or else the algorithm was bust).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Seagull

2006-03-20, 5:48 pm

In alt.satellite.gps Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> Can you do the same thing for the Magellans? Or describe the softwares
> and process involved, just sort of an outline of it?

There is software for doing this on a Magellan, but I don't own a Magellan
unit so I can't test it. :)

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Jack Erbes

2006-03-20, 5:48 pm

Seagull wrote:

> In alt.satellite.gps Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> There is software for doing this on a Magellan, but I don't own a Magellan
> unit so I can't test it. :)

So if I sent you a Meridian Marine and a CD with some 1:24K quads on it,
would you want to learn how to do it? Email me if you're interested
in doing that.

I'd like to have the Meridian back of course, but you'd be a lot
smarter, right?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

Seagull

2006-03-21, 11:48 pm

In alt.satellite.gps Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> So if I sent you a Meridian Marine and a CD with some 1:24K quads on it,
> would you want to learn how to do it? Email me if you're interested
> in doing that.

That's a mighty generous offer. I'll think it over. The key issue
would be having enough time to actually figure it all out before
you get tired of waiting and want your GPSr back. :)

Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Jack Erbes

2006-03-21, 11:48 pm

Seagull wrote:

> In alt.satellite.gps Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> That's a mighty generous offer. I'll think it over. The key issue
> would be having enough time to actually figure it all out before
> you get tired of waiting and want your GPSr back. :)
>

View it as a chance to take one small step for mankind. I sent an email
to you at the address on your email. Thanks for considering it.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

LinkBot