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Q? Loading different source maps
|
|
| Graydon 2006-03-15, 11:48 pm |
| I've learned that Garmin gps and mapping products load a single set of
maps, and seems to only support a one image file.
I'm planning a trip to England in a month. I've got Canada Topo
loaded, how do I load CN Europe and keep both sets on my GPS? (The
Canada maps are only about 35mb, but the England files are over 100
Mb. I have a 256 Mb card)
| |
| geo.croft@gmail.com 2006-03-15, 11:48 pm |
| Generally, you can load Topo and Street maps together... up to your
memory limit.
The Street maps have priority over Topo maps. There is an internal map
"heirarchy" which determinse which type maps display at what time. To
get a Topo map to display, you must "unclick" the Street map(s) for the
areas you wish to see a Topo view.
In the Map Setup area, you will see a list of the map sectors you
downloaded to the GPS unit. Each will have a "check" in the box beside
it. This is what you "uncheck" to disable the Street map and to allow
the underlying Topo map to display.
You will have to know the NAME of the Map Sector in order to find it in
the list... otherwise you'll spend a lot of time doing it by trial and
error. The best way to identify the Names is in Mapsource as your
select each sector. The name appears at the bottom of the screen...
Take notes!!!
TexGEOas
| |
| geo.croft@gmail.com 2006-03-15, 11:48 pm |
| Oooops... I think I gave you the wrong answer.
If you load CN Europe.... it will overwrite anything already loaded and
you will have to reload Cabada Topo when you return.
BTW, you didn't say what GPS you have.
| |
| peter 2006-03-15, 11:48 pm |
| Graydon wrote:
> I've learned that Garmin gps and mapping products load a single set of
> maps, and seems to only support a one image file.
>
> I'm planning a trip to England in a month. I've got Canada Topo
> loaded, how do I load CN Europe and keep both sets on my GPS? (The
> Canada maps are only about 35mb, but the England files are over 100
> Mb. I have a 256 Mb card)
Loading a new set of maps automatically erases the previous set.
But, you can load both the desired CN-Eur and Topo-Canada maps at one
time into your GPS. Run MapSource on your PC, select all the CN-Eur
maps you want, then use the drop-down bar to select the Topo-Canada
mapset and select all of those that you want. Finally download all the
selected maps to your GPS.
| |
| peter 2006-03-15, 11:48 pm |
| geo.croft@gmail.com wrote:
> Generally, you can load Topo and Street maps together... up to your
> memory limit.
>
> The Street maps have priority over Topo maps. There is an internal map
> "heirarchy" which determinse which type maps display at what time. To
> get a Topo map to display, you must "unclick" the Street map(s) for the
> areas you wish to see a Topo view.
This would be true if the maps were covering the same area. But in
this case the CN maps were in Europe and the Topo maps were in Canada
so there isn't any conflict and therefore no need to 'unclick'
anything.
>
> In the Map Setup area, you will see a list of the map sectors you
> downloaded to the GPS unit. Each will have a "check" in the box beside
> it. This is what you "uncheck" to disable the Street map and to allow
> the underlying Topo map to display.
>
> You will have to know the NAME of the Map Sector in order to find it in
> the list... otherwise you'll spend a lot of time doing it by trial and
> error. The best way to identify the Names is in Mapsource as your
> select each sector. The name appears at the bottom of the screen...
> Take notes!!!
This is needlessly complicated even in the case where the maps do cover
the same area. Instead of laboriously going through the list of maps
and deciding which to uncheck, merely press the <MENU> button again to
see choices like "Hide CityNavigator Maps." That will then display all
the Topo maps instead.
I use this technique frequently when using the street maps to drive to
a trailhead and then switch to topo maps for hiking. Very
straightforward with no need to take any notes or keep track of map
segment names.
| |
| z.entropic 2006-03-16, 11:48 pm |
|
peter wrote:
>
> This would be true if the maps were covering the same area. But in
> this case the CN maps were in Europe and the Topo maps were in Canada
> so there isn't any conflict and therefore no need to 'unclick'
> anything.
It all depends on the Garmin GPSR used. In a nuvi 350, the street maps
and topo maps can coexists as they have different image filenames,
although as you said, if both sets are checked, only the street map is
visible (sometimes the underlying topo image/features flash through).
I also find that the nuvi can only support a single supplementary image
file, gmapsupp.img, even if there are two loaded, one in the internal
memory and one on the SD card. The last loaded with MapSource is the
one that nuvi sees. To get around this problem, I bought a 2 GB SD
card and loaded all 3 CDs with 1:100,000 US topo maps (East, West,
Alaska and Hawaii) as a single gmapsupp.img file (1.8 GB!).
Garmin should really make image files selectable, it's 2006.
z.entropic
| |
| Paul Lady 2006-03-18, 11:48 pm |
| Reading this thread makes me concerned about my plan.
I was considering a 60Cx to use for both road and marine work. I need the
eastern US road maps and the Huron part of the Great Lakes as a minimum.
Am I going to have problems when I switch from wet to dry ride?
Thx, pjl
"peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1142476463.883144.326800@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Graydon wrote:
>
> Loading a new set of maps automatically erases the previous set.
>
> But, you can load both the desired CN-Eur and Topo-Canada maps at one
> time into your GPS. Run MapSource on your PC, select all the CN-Eur
> maps you want, then use the drop-down bar to select the Topo-Canada
> mapset and select all of those that you want. Finally download all the
> selected maps to your GPS.
>
| |
| peter 2006-03-18, 11:48 pm |
| Paul Lady wrote:
> "peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1142476463.883144.326800@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[color=darkred]
> Reading this thread makes me concerned about my plan.
>
> I was considering a 60Cx to use for both road and marine work. I need the
> eastern US road maps and the Huron part of the Great Lakes as a minimum.
>
> Am I going to have problems when I switch from wet to dry ride?
Was there anything in my response above that gave you the impression
that you'd run into any problems? As I said, you can load multiple
types of maps into your GPS at the same time as long as you download
them all in one operation. So there'd be no problem loading road maps
for the eastern US and some of the marine maps for the Great Lakes.
| |
| Paul Lady 2006-03-19, 5:48 pm |
| Peter, I guess not any thing specifically that raised my concerns, just
looking to cover unknowns.
I have not used the software that creates the file from sources (road maps
and charts) and I am not familiar with how it works.
I now infer that I can create a file of both road and chart segments that
can be loaded as one file with a size up to the SD chip I have in the unit.
No reply required if this is the case.
On another point, I would appreciate your assistance in obtaining the
following information.
Will the 60Cx send data on the standard four pin Garmin round plug cable,
and will it obtain power on both that cable and the USB cable? Are there
any other units that have capability? I am still looking for the best unit
to use on both a boat and a car. I see units that are better for car use
(larger screens, better screens, different GUI) but I don't know how to have
them share GPS data on a boat.
Thx, pjl
"peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1142722567.065080.311130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Paul Lady wrote:
>
>
> Was there anything in my response above that gave you the impression
> that you'd run into any problems? As I said, you can load multiple
> types of maps into your GPS at the same time as long as you download
> them all in one operation. So there'd be no problem loading road maps
> for the eastern US and some of the marine maps for the Great Lakes.
>
| |
| Jack Erbes 2006-03-19, 5:48 pm |
| Paul Lady wrote:
> Peter, I guess not any thing specifically that raised my concerns, just
> looking to cover unknowns.
>
> I have not used the software that creates the file from sources (road maps
> and charts) and I am not familiar with how it works.
<snip>
Peter may not have used BlueCharts.
I have not either. And I do not own a Garmin handheld. But let me tell
you some of the factors and considerations that have arisen in my using
Magellan's BlueNav charting on Meridian GPSrs. It may raise some of the
specific questions you want to get answers for.
Beyond the issues and questions that may apply to you, some of this is
more than you want or need to know about Magellan marine charting but I
think it goes to you getting your answers. Also, I am interested in
learning how the Garmin marine charting works in case I decide to buy a
Garmin GPS. I am neither fiercely loyal to or harshly critical of
either Garmin or Magellan.
My BlueNav charts are stored in chart regions I will call "charts".
Each "chart" is a collection of a number of electronic charts of various
scales all in a specific geographical area. The BlueNav CD-ROM (which
is now a discontinued product) comes with 83 "charts" on it. To use
BlueNav you have to unlock a single SD card for use with the CD-ROM.
As an example of the coverage in individual "charts", it takes seven
separate adjoining "charts" to cover the area from Bar Harbor, ME down
to Narragansett Bay, RI.
To use BlueNav I start an application on my PC, select a "chart" and
upload it to the unlocked SD card in a attached GPS (very slow) or to
the unlocked SD card in a reader (very quick).
The "chart" is stored as a file on the unlocked SD card. That SD card
and "chart" can be used in any Meridian GPS. From the GPS, the chart
file is available for use as a detail map, it is named detail00.img, and
it must have that name or it won't work.
I go to sea and the chart works beautifully. It is a wonderful thing.
As soon as I exit the Deer Isle Thoroughfare, I need to change to a
second "chart" to continue my voyage.
At this point, Magellan's concept for using BlueNav is that I attach the
GPS to the PC again (or shut it down and remove the SD card and put it
back in the reader again) and upload the next "chart" needed. That
overwrites the existing detail00.img file with a new "chart" and I'm
back in business as soon as the SD card is back in the GPS, powered back
up, and a fix obtained.
This is where Magellan's concept for using BlueNav became unworkable for
me. I deliver various boats and can't count on having a PC available at
sea. I don't even want one available at sea for the most part.
In order to learn exactly how BlueNav works in the real world I read a
lot of online docs and asked a lot of questions on newsgroups. I
finally bought BlueNav because I suspected it would work for me. And I
did get it to work. I worked out a process where I can store multiple
chart files on the unlocked SD card and rename the files (using a PDA
with a SD slot) as I proceed from one chart region to the next. A
little cumbersome but workable enough.
I use my Meridian both "dry and wet" as you describe. I have BlueNav,
DirectRoute (street and highway with autorouting), and Topo 3D map files
on a single 1Gb SD card and can travel by car and boat from Maine to
Rhode Island using any of those three types of details maps and without
needing access to a PC.
I'm attracted to the new SiRF III chipsets and the Garmin displays are
superior to the Meridian Color I'm using now. And I've studied the info
available about BlueChart on the Garmin web site.
It appears that BlueChart data is stored in a manner similar to BlueNav.
It looks like the chart files actually transferred to the GPS will be
larger (fewer in number) for the region I'm interested in. You can see
that here, I am guessing but it looks like three chart files cover the
area covered by seven files in BlueNav.
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/b...050&cd=Americas
I still don't know if BlueChart would work for me if I bought a Garmin
"x" series handheld and BlueChart. And I haven't been able to figure it
out by reading the MapSource and BlueNav documentation on the web sites.
I gotten some answers from some of the owners of the "x" series models
here but I'm still not certain if BlueChart would work for me
Peter says "you can load multiple types of maps into your GPS at the
same time as long as you download them all in one operation. So there'd
be no problem loading road maps for the eastern US and some of the
marine maps for the Great Lakes".
For me, it would be a problem if I had to have a PC available to load a
new chart file as I ran off the edge of one. It would be a real problem
if I had to reload every file on the microSD card just to change to
another BlueChart file.
So the questions I would have about using BlueChart files on the "x"
series handhelds are thing like:
1 - Can I select multiple, adjoining, chart files from BlueChart and
upload them to a microSD card? If so, are there any size or file number
limitations? Or are there any other constraints?
2 - If I can't have a single large chart file, can I select a number of
separate adjoining chart files and upload those to a microSD card?
3 - If there are multiple files on the microSD card, can I choose them
as I move from one chart region to the next? Or will the GPS do that
for me?
4 - Are there any other constraints on using the microSD card (file
names, file sizes, file types, etc.) that impact on the use of multiple
BlueChart files from a "x" model in mobile use?
5 - The Bottom Line - To use BlueChart, will I need to have a PC
available with BlueChart installed to travel 200 nautical miles and
cross three chart regions?
> I now infer that I can create a file of both road and chart segments that
> can be loaded as one file with a size up to the SD chip I have in the unit.
> No reply required if this is the case.
My understanding is that you create separate files, against a size
constraint for each type, for CN, CS, and Topo products and then upload
them all. They are then selected from on the handheld and there is some
automation or settings for selection preferences. I invite correction
of from owners on this.
I'm not sure if you can add BlueChart files (and more importantly,
multiple BlueChart files) to the list for uploading. That is one of the
key questions for me.
> On another point, I would appreciate your assistance in obtaining the
> following information.
> Will the 60Cx send data on the standard four pin Garmin round plug cable,
> and will it obtain power on both that cable and the USB cable? Are there
> any other units that have capability?
Again, I'd like to hear these answers too and defer to owners.
> I am still looking for the best unit
> to use on both a boat and a car. I see units that are better for car use
> (larger screens, better screens, different GUI) but I don't know how to have
> them share GPS data on a boat.
I still think the handhelds like the Meridians and the newer and better
60/76 "x" series are the best for all around/multiple purpose use. But
you will always give up some capabilities and features in any specific
setting and the longer you are there the more you will miss them.
An example is the difference between autorouting features and
capabilities on a handheld and a dedicated dash mount auto nav unit.
I'm beginning to think that owning two GPS receivers is a better way.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
| |
| peter 2006-03-19, 11:48 pm |
| Jack Erbes wrote:
> Paul Lady wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Peter may not have used BlueCharts.
>
> I have not either. And I do not own a Garmin handheld. But let me tell
> you some of the factors and considerations that have arisen in my using
> Magellan's BlueNav charting on Meridian GPSrs. It may raise some of the
> specific questions you want to get answers for.
[Multiple issues with Magellan's BlueNav product deleted.]
Jack is correct that I don't personally have the BlueCharts product.
But some of my friends do and they report that BlueCharts can be mixed
with other Garmin maps in the same way that I described earlier for
Topo and CitySelect. The restrictive uses of the Magellan BlueNav maps
described by Jack definitely do *not* apply to Garmin's BlueChart maps.
| |
| z.entropic 2006-03-19, 11:48 pm |
| Jack writes:
> An example is the difference between autorouting features and
> capabilities on a handheld and a dedicated dash mount auto nav unit.
> I'm beginning to think that owning two GPS receivers is a better way.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your conclusion. I have a
nuvi 350 with a 2 GB SD card on which I can fit all the three CDs with
US Topo100Ks (a 1.8 GB gmapsupp.img file...). I can easily switch
between US Navigator 7.0 maps (autorouting, more recent) and the topo
maps, play MP3, see JPGs, listen to books and use a calculator--but I
have only one via point, no waypoint, track and route recording; no
backtracking, no compass, no geocaching features and only a GPS-based
altimeter. The lat/lon coords were added after much complaining only
in the last firmware upgrade. I'm ready to add a 60CSx to cover both
applications as the topos are licensed (no key) for two Garmin units.
There is no has-it-all unit which, I think is now technically feasible,
but breaking the market into segments is simply a better marketing and
money-making strategy...
z.entropic
| |
|
| Jack Erbes wrote:
> Peter says "you can load multiple types of maps into your GPS at the
> same time as long as you download them all in one operation. So there'd
> be no problem loading road maps for the eastern US and some of the
> marine maps for the Great Lakes".
>
> For me, it would be a problem if I had to have a PC available to load a
> new chart file as I ran off the edge of one. It would be a real problem
> if I had to reload every file on the microSD card just to change to
> another BlueChart file.
[Note that although I don't own BlueChart software, the following
comments are based on some experience with friend's units that do have
these maps. I'm sure anyone seeing errors will chime in with more
accurate information and I thank them for that in advance.]
I wrote "some" above, i.e. multiple, not "one". You would load all the
needed BlueChart maps (not 'files') that you need for your trip so
there would be no need for any PC access along the way.
>
> So the questions I would have about using BlueChart files on the "x"
> series handhelds are thing like:
>
> 1 - Can I select multiple, adjoining, chart files from BlueChart and
> upload them to a microSD card?
Yes, but there's no need for them to be adjoining. They can be if you
wish, but don't need to be (you might plan to be boating in widely
separated areas with a driving trip in between).
> If so, are there any size or file number limitations?
The size is limited by the capacity of your microSD card. The number
of map regions is currently limited to a little over 2000 (don't
remember the exact number at the moment). Those limits would apply to
the aggregate sum of all the street, topo, and BlueChart map regions
that you upload.
> Or are there any other constraints?
You need to upload all desired map regions at one time. I.e. select
all the street/topo/marine maps you need and then do a single upload.
There is no option to add maps to ones you've already uploaded so treat
each upload as starting from scratch.
>
> 2 - If I can't have a single large chart file, can I select a number of
> separate adjoining chart files and upload those to a microSD card?
Doesn't apply - a single collection of all map regions is all you can
have - so there's no need for separate files.
>
> 3 - If there are multiple files on the microSD card, can I choose them
> as I move from one chart region to the next? Or will the GPS do that
> for me?
In general the GPS will do that for you. But there can be some
discontinuity at the border from one BlueChart region to the next. If
the scales of the adjoining regions aren't consistent then it may not
be possible to display both simultaneously. Therefore you might see a
portion of the screen shaded out until the cursor reaches the region
covered by the other chart and switches over. Zooming out a bit can
eliminate that issue.
There are also cases where you want to manually choose which map to
see. For example, both Blue Chart and a CitySelect map may show a
harbor and adjoining land area. By default the BlueChart has higher
priority and it will be displayed. But you can use the menus on the
GPS to temporarily "Hide BlueChart" so that the CitySelect maps are
shown instead. And you can also turn on or off display of individual
map segments when desired (by default they're all turned on when first
downloaded).
>
> 4 - Are there any other constraints on using the microSD card (file
> names, file sizes, file types, etc.) that impact on the use of multiple
> BlueChart files from a "x" model in mobile use?
AFAIK, there's only a single file that gets created with all your
selected map regions (although they are stored individually on the PC).
But I never see any file sizes, types, names, etc. on the GPS receiver
so from a practical standpoint I have no more interest in the mechanics
of how the maps are stored than I am in whether my microwave oven uses
multiple files to store cooking times for different meats. Both
devices get the job done so how they internally organize their data
isn't a big concern of mine.
>
> 5 - The Bottom Line - To use BlueChart, will I need to have a PC
> available with BlueChart installed to travel 200 nautical miles and
> cross three chart regions?
No. [Provided of course that you had the foresight to upload all the
needed map regions before you started your trip.]
>
>
> My understanding is that you create separate files, against a size
> constraint for each type, for CN, CS, and Topo products and then upload
> them all.
Nope, no separate size limits for each type of map, only a limit on the
total size (must be less than the size of the card) and a limit on the
total number of map regions ( over 2000).
> They are then selected from on the handheld and there is some
> automation or settings for selection preferences. I invite correction
> of from owners on this.
Yes, there's a default priority for display with BlueChart being the
highest followed by CityNavigator/Select, MetroGuide, Topo, etc. By
default all may types are turned on and any regions covered by multple
types will only have the highest priority one displayed. But you can
go into the menus on the unit and turn off any types you don't want to
see temporarily and that'll let you see the lower priority maps
instead.
>
> I'm not sure if you can add BlueChart files (and more importantly,
> multiple BlueChart files) to the list for uploading.
BlueChart is listed by Garmin as one of the multiple map types and I've
been told by users of it that it works the same as the rest.
The round plug cable provides RS-232 compatible signals with
bidirectional data. Note that this is the only port that supports NMEA
messages (they're not sent over the USB port).
[color=darkred]
Yes.[color=darkred]
The 60 CSx, 76Cx, 76CSx.[color=darkred]
>
> Again, I'd like to hear these answers too and defer to owners.
>
>
> I still think the handhelds like the Meridians and the newer and better
> 60/76 "x" series are the best for all around/multiple purpose use. But
> you will always give up some capabilities and features in any specific
> setting and the longer you are there the more you will miss them.
>
> An example is the difference between autorouting features and
> capabilities on a handheld and a dedicated dash mount auto nav unit.
> I'm beginning to think that owning two GPS receivers is a better way.
There are always some tradeoffs in multi-function devices. But don't
base your views of auto-routing handhelds on experience with the
Magellans. It was a terrific achievement to add that ability to the
Meridians which weren't originally made to auto-route, but it is a
limited feature compared to the Garmin units that were designed from
the start with auto-routing in mind.
Unlike the Magellan handhelds, the Garmins can do routing with
intermediate via points, base the routing on either fastest or shortest
route, support multiple vehicle types (car, truck, pedestrian, bicycle,
emergency, taxi) to reflect differing road restrictions, and allow user
input on desired road types. The Garmins can also be set to
automatically recalculate a route when you miss a turn rather than
requiring any manual input.
| |
| Paul Lady 2006-03-20, 5:48 pm |
| Jack, thx for your very interesting reply. You are just the type "user"
that I need to discuss my interest.
I race sail and navigate both my own 33' and other 40-50 footers in races.
Navigation is often the key to winning since it relates to the race tactics,
along with weather prediction. I have used Nobeltec very successfully for
about 6 years now. It is an excellent program, but has leaned toward more
function on the power side than the sail side of marine use style.. Not a
problem just a fact of life as the designers listen to their customer base.
Nobeltec "stitches" their charts so that the transitions you find so
unacceptable are not present. I could not tolerate the lack of stitching.
It would happen at the most inopportune times and ruin my day. This is the
kind of fact of operation that I'm trying to discover before I make the
investment in an essentially useless product.
On the road I use Streets and Trips. The big drawback is having the laptop
in the middle of the front seat along with my spouse and all the essentials
of comfortable road travel. Inevitably I am driving, need information
quickly and get frustrated because of my wife's lack of expertise and slow
response time on the program and the laptop.
I doubt that a road specific device like the Garmin 2740(?) would cure all
my problems since the S&T is an excellent planning tool and produces lots of
nice things like what if scenarios, strip maps and driving instructions when
the route is selected. Still, the lap lacks ease of on the road use and
quick response time, which leads me to think that the right design is out
there somewhere.
On the boat, I doubt that I would ever replace the Nobeltec and the laptop
since I find it so useful. However, the cost advantages of newer technology
keeps me on the alert for the next generation and the better mousetrap, as
always. I keep hearing that the NOAA charts are available free, but have
not yet found a way to use them easily or to replace the value added by
Nobeltec with their software goodies.
The cost of a Garmin with all the required road and chart unlock keys is a
factor since they seem to have it locked up very tightly that you can only
use $150 worth of map or chart on one device. Have you heard of any
software that gets around this issue by using the free chart stuff? Or at
least shareware stuff? Given the technological life of the typical device
these days, the cost of the chart is only good for several years.
Is there any free source of road maps? I find that the S&T data is way out
of date in any area (like FL) where there is active development going on.
It's frustrating to pay the big bucks for their map data and find it is so
useless looking for my friends new condo in Jupiter
Guess this turned into a bit of a ramble, but maybe someone willing to share
has obtained more function for lower cost already.
pjl
"Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:VZidnZDIi7NQB4D
ZRVn-vw@adelphia.com...
> Paul Lady wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Peter may not have used BlueCharts.
>
> I have not either. And I do not own a Garmin handheld. But let me tell
> you some of the factors and considerations that have arisen in my using
> Magellan's BlueNav charting on Meridian GPSrs. It may raise some of the
> specific questions you want to get answers for.
>
> Beyond the issues and questions that may apply to you, some of this is
> more than you want or need to know about Magellan marine charting but I
> think it goes to you getting your answers. Also, I am interested in
> learning how the Garmin marine charting works in case I decide to buy a
> Garmin GPS. I am neither fiercely loyal to or harshly critical of either
> Garmin or Magellan.
>
> My BlueNav charts are stored in chart regions I will call "charts". Each
> "chart" is a collection of a number of electronic charts of various scales
> all in a specific geographical area. The BlueNav CD-ROM (which is now a
> discontinued product) comes with 83 "charts" on it. To use BlueNav you
> have to unlock a single SD card for use with the CD-ROM.
>
> As an example of the coverage in individual "charts", it takes seven
> separate adjoining "charts" to cover the area from Bar Harbor, ME down to
> Narragansett Bay, RI.
>
> To use BlueNav I start an application on my PC, select a "chart" and
> upload it to the unlocked SD card in a attached GPS (very slow) or to the
> unlocked SD card in a reader (very quick).
>
> The "chart" is stored as a file on the unlocked SD card. That SD card and
> "chart" can be used in any Meridian GPS. From the GPS, the chart file is
> available for use as a detail map, it is named detail00.img, and it must
> have that name or it won't work.
>
> I go to sea and the chart works beautifully. It is a wonderful thing. As
> soon as I exit the Deer Isle Thoroughfare, I need to change to a second
> "chart" to continue my voyage.
>
> At this point, Magellan's concept for using BlueNav is that I attach the
> GPS to the PC again (or shut it down and remove the SD card and put it
> back in the reader again) and upload the next "chart" needed. That
> overwrites the existing detail00.img file with a new "chart" and I'm back
> in business as soon as the SD card is back in the GPS, powered back up,
> and a fix obtained.
>
> This is where Magellan's concept for using BlueNav became unworkable for
> me. I deliver various boats and can't count on having a PC available at
> sea. I don't even want one available at sea for the most part.
>
> In order to learn exactly how BlueNav works in the real world I read a lot
> of online docs and asked a lot of questions on newsgroups. I finally
> bought BlueNav because I suspected it would work for me. And I did get it
> to work. I worked out a process where I can store multiple chart files on
> the unlocked SD card and rename the files (using a PDA with a SD slot) as
> I proceed from one chart region to the next. A little cumbersome but
> workable enough.
>
> I use my Meridian both "dry and wet" as you describe. I have BlueNav,
> DirectRoute (street and highway with autorouting), and Topo 3D map files
> on a single 1Gb SD card and can travel by car and boat from Maine to Rhode
> Island using any of those three types of details maps and without needing
> access to a PC.
>
> I'm attracted to the new SiRF III chipsets and the Garmin displays are
> superior to the Meridian Color I'm using now. And I've studied the info
> available about BlueChart on the Garmin web site.
>
> It appears that BlueChart data is stored in a manner similar to BlueNav.
> It looks like the chart files actually transferred to the GPS will be
> larger (fewer in number) for the region I'm interested in. You can see
> that here, I am guessing but it looks like three chart files cover the
> area covered by seven files in BlueNav.
>
> http://www.garmin.com/cartography/b...050&cd=Americas
>
> I still don't know if BlueChart would work for me if I bought a Garmin "x"
> series handheld and BlueChart. And I haven't been able to figure it out
> by reading the MapSource and BlueNav documentation on the web sites.
>
> I gotten some answers from some of the owners of the "x" series models
> here but I'm still not certain if BlueChart would work for me
>
> Peter says "you can load multiple types of maps into your GPS at the same
> time as long as you download them all in one operation. So there'd be no
> problem loading road maps for the eastern US and some of the marine maps
> for the Great Lakes".
>
> For me, it would be a problem if I had to have a PC available to load a
> new chart file as I ran off the edge of one. It would be a real problem
> if I had to reload every file on the microSD card just to change to
> another BlueChart file.
>
> So the questions I would have about using BlueChart files on the "x"
> series handhelds are thing like:
>
> 1 - Can I select multiple, adjoining, chart files from BlueChart and
> upload them to a microSD card? If so, are there any size or file number
> limitations? Or are there any other constraints?
>
> 2 - If I can't have a single large chart file, can I select a number of
> separate adjoining chart files and upload those to a microSD card?
>
> 3 - If there are multiple files on the microSD card, can I choose them as
> I move from one chart region to the next? Or will the GPS do that for me?
>
> 4 - Are there any other constraints on using the microSD card (file names,
> file sizes, file types, etc.) that impact on the use of multiple
> BlueChart files from a "x" model in mobile use?
>
> 5 - The Bottom Line - To use BlueChart, will I need to have a PC available
> with BlueChart installed to travel 200 nautical miles and cross three
> chart regions?
>
>
> My understanding is that you create separate files, against a size
> constraint for each type, for CN, CS, and Topo products and then upload
> them all. They are then selected from on the handheld and there is some
> automation or settings for selection preferences. I invite correction of
> from owners on this.
>
> I'm not sure if you can add BlueChart files (and more importantly,
> multiple BlueChart files) to the list for uploading. That is one of the
> key questions for me.
>
>
> Again, I'd like to hear these answers too and defer to owners.
>
>
> I still think the handhelds like the Meridians and the newer and better
> 60/76 "x" series are the best for all around/multiple purpose use. But
> you will always give up some capabilities and features in any specific
> setting and the longer you are there the more you will miss them.
>
> An example is the difference between autorouting features and capabilities
> on a handheld and a dedicated dash mount auto nav unit. I'm beginning to
> think that owning two GPS receivers is a better way.
>
> Jack
>
> --
> Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
> (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
| |
| Paul Lady 2006-03-20, 5:48 pm |
| Peter, thx for your very helpful response. It does look like the 60Cx
(don't need the compass) is a pretty sweet unit for the combination of
functions that I'm looking for.
pjl
"peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1142829263.216669.75130@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Jack Erbes wrote:
>
>
> [Note that although I don't own BlueChart software, the following
> comments are based on some experience with friend's units that do have
> these maps. I'm sure anyone seeing errors will chime in with more
> accurate information and I thank them for that in advance.]
>
> I wrote "some" above, i.e. multiple, not "one". You would load all the
> needed BlueChart maps (not 'files') that you need for your trip so
> there would be no need for any PC access along the way.
>
> Yes, but there's no need for them to be adjoining. They can be if you
> wish, but don't need to be (you might plan to be boating in widely
> separated areas with a driving trip in between).
>
>
> The size is limited by the capacity of your microSD card. The number
> of map regions is currently limited to a little over 2000 (don't
> remember the exact number at the moment). Those limits would apply to
> the aggregate sum of all the street, topo, and BlueChart map regions
> that you upload.
>
>
> You need to upload all desired map regions at one time. I.e. select
> all the street/topo/marine maps you need and then do a single upload.
> There is no option to add maps to ones you've already uploaded so treat
> each upload as starting from scratch.
>
> Doesn't apply - a single collection of all map regions is all you can
> have - so there's no need for separate files.
>
> In general the GPS will do that for you. But there can be some
> discontinuity at the border from one BlueChart region to the next. If
> the scales of the adjoining regions aren't consistent then it may not
> be possible to display both simultaneously. Therefore you might see a
> portion of the screen shaded out until the cursor reaches the region
> covered by the other chart and switches over. Zooming out a bit can
> eliminate that issue.
>
> There are also cases where you want to manually choose which map to
> see. For example, both Blue Chart and a CitySelect map may show a
> harbor and adjoining land area. By default the BlueChart has higher
> priority and it will be displayed. But you can use the menus on the
> GPS to temporarily "Hide BlueChart" so that the CitySelect maps are
> shown instead. And you can also turn on or off display of individual
> map segments when desired (by default they're all turned on when first
> downloaded).
>
> AFAIK, there's only a single file that gets created with all your
> selected map regions (although they are stored individually on the PC).
>
> But I never see any file sizes, types, names, etc. on the GPS receiver
> so from a practical standpoint I have no more interest in the mechanics
> of how the maps are stored than I am in whether my microwave oven uses
> multiple files to store cooking times for different meats. Both
> devices get the job done so how they internally organize their data
> isn't a big concern of mine.
>
> No. [Provided of course that you had the foresight to upload all the
> needed map regions before you started your trip.]
>
> Nope, no separate size limits for each type of map, only a limit on the
> total size (must be less than the size of the card) and a limit on the
> total number of map regions ( over 2000).
>
>
> Yes, there's a default priority for display with BlueChart being the
> highest followed by CityNavigator/Select, MetroGuide, Topo, etc. By
> default all may types are turned on and any regions covered by multple
> types will only have the highest priority one displayed. But you can
> go into the menus on the unit and turn off any types you don't want to
> see temporarily and that'll let you see the lower priority maps
> instead.
>
> BlueChart is listed by Garmin as one of the multiple map types and I've
> been told by users of it that it works the same as the rest.
>
>
> The round plug cable provides RS-232 compatible signals with
> bidirectional data. Note that this is the only port that supports NMEA
> messages (they're not sent over the USB port).
>
>
> Yes.
>
> The 60 CSx, 76Cx, 76CSx.
>
> There are always some tradeoffs in multi-function devices. But don't
> base your views of auto-routing handhelds on experience with the
> Magellans. It was a terrific achievement to add that ability to the
> Meridians which weren't originally made to auto-route, but it is a
> limited feature compared to the Garmin units that were designed from
> the start with auto-routing in mind.
>
> Unlike the Magellan handhelds, the Garmins can do routing with
> intermediate via points, base the routing on either fastest or shortest
> route, support multiple vehicle types (car, truck, pedestrian, bicycle,
> emergency, taxi) to reflect differing road restrictions, and allow user
> input on desired road types. The Garmins can also be set to
> automatically recalculate a route when you miss a turn rather than
> requiring any manual input.
>
| |
| Jack Erbes 2006-03-20, 5:48 pm |
| Paul Lady wrote:
> Jack, thx for your very interesting reply. You are just the type "user"
> that I need to discuss my interest.
>
> I race sail and navigate both my own 33' and other 40-50 footers in races.
> Navigation is often the key to winning...
This has been a good thread for me, I've gotten some good answers to
questions I had. Did you notice that Peter has put to rest my concerns
that the Garmins may have the same issues that I deal with on the
Meridians?
My needs are quite different from yours. I usually travel light with
just a backpack (no checked baggage/missed connections waiting for
luggage) to pick up and deliver power boats to and from seasonal
storage. These trips are of one or two days duration on the water and
usually done singlehanded, often with two or three boats in company for
the longer legs.
The boats are all fully equipped with a variety of brands and models of
nav equipment so there can be quite a learning curve delay if I want to
use only the boat's gear. My routes are preplanned and on the handheld,
a chart book is in my bag, and I can prop that on the dash and move the
boat even if the on board nav equipment is not working. My entire focus
is on getting from A to B safely, with the boat undamaged, and fairly
quickly.
> Nobeltec "stitches" their charts so that the transitions you find so
> unacceptable are not present. <snip>
I'm familiar with that, I've used the Admiral package in the past. If I
were using a laptop (which is more than I want to carry or get involved
with underway) I might use something like that.
> On the road I use Streets and Trips.
I used Street Atlas for some years and now have shifted to S&T. It is,
as you say, a good software. I also use Tom Tom Navigator 5 on a iPAQ
PDA in the car and on a motorcycle. TT5 is a good software and has most
or all of the features found in most of the dash mounted dedicated road
navigation units. I got TT5 mostly because it was more suitable for use
on the bike (in a tank mounted bag/map case) than were the bigger dash
mount units that would require mounting on the handlebars.
> The big drawback is having the laptop
> in the middle of the front seat along with my spouse...
You have my sympathy. I'm married to the worlds worst navigator and she
also hates and distrusts any level of technology that is more advanced
than a paper map. She is usually of no help at all and has been a
hindrance at times.
> I doubt that a road specific device like the Garmin 2740(?) would cure all
> my problems since the S&T is an excellent planning tool and produces lots of
> nice things like what if scenarios, strip maps and driving instructions when
> the route is selected. Still, the lap lacks ease of on the road use and
> quick response time, which leads me to think that the right design is out
> there somewhere.
I could enjoy a StreetPilot, Quest, etc., as long as it had the right
features. Key to my enjoyment would be that I could do the planning in
advance on a laptop and then take the results to the nav unit (on flash
media or transferred by a cable). Of course, I would also want to be
able to build or amend routes from the device in the car. I've just not
felt a need to have one of those yet.
> On the boat, I doubt that I would ever replace the Nobeltec and the laptop
> since I find it so useful.
Doing the things you are doing, I'm sure I would feel the same way.
> I keep hearing that the NOAA charts are available free, but have
> not yet found a way to use them easily or to replace the value added by
> Nobeltec with their software goodies.
For U.S. waters, you can download for free about every NOAA chart you
would ever need as a NOAA Raster Navigational Chart (RNC). And there a
number of softwares you can use those with. I use them with Seaclear II
for some route planning. I have no problem at all with the look, feel,
and quality of the NOAA raster charts, all the info I need is there.
I've used them for years on paper and as BSB charts in several different
softwares. You can get more info on those here if you want:
http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/Raster/Index.htm
The NOAA Electronic Navigational Charts (ENC) vector charts (also called
S-57 charts), will eventually be available with the same coverage as the
RNC's. There are about 125-150 different ENC available now and if you
have a software that can use the S-57 charts you can use those now.
http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/mcd/enc/resource.htm
I'm not using any vector charts now although I have looked at some of
them with a ENC viewer out of curiosity. It takes a good nav software
package to get the full benefit of the ENC charts. I would probably
start with trial versions of Coastal Explorer, Fugawi, The Cap'n, and
maybe even Nobletec's Admiral to see if they met my needs. The only
reservation I have about the Admiral package is its price. And I'd like
to see the Admiral package it in comparison to some of those other
packages. I used the trial version of Coastal Explorer briefly about
two years ago and it looked to be a very good package. I'd look at that
again before I bought anything else.
Your personal likes and dislikes along with the boat(s) involved and
what you are doing on the water are major factors in choosing a software.
> The cost of a Garmin with all the required road and chart unlock keys is a
> factor since they seem to have it locked up very tightly that you can only
> use $150 worth of map or chart on one device.
It is the same with both Garmin and Magellan. Most of us get ourselves
locked into one or the other through software or hardware issues across
one product line or the other. I have Magellan now and if I were to
shift to Garmin it would invalidate the three Magellan optional software
packages I have now and I could no longer use the SD cards I have. So
we are talking about having to spend quite a bit of money to change from
one brand to the other. But I'll do it when and if it makes sense.
I try to be objective and love to hear the details of use of the
different brands and models. Feedback from buyers is the only way to
get the details of what works and what does not without buying. I hate
it when people get a "I bought it so it has to be the best one" glow on
and and recommend one or the other solely on that basis. We consumers
need to unite against the makers and use our wallets to make them do
what we want.
> Have you heard of any
> software that gets around this issue by using the free chart stuff? Or at
> least shareware stuff? Given the technological life of the typical device
> these days, the cost of the chart is only good for several years.
Not in a ruggedized, waterproof, self-contained for power, handheld with
good daylight visibility. Like the Meridian or the Garmin 60/76 "x"
series. And the Garmins appear, in many ways, to be the better of those
two.
USGS topo maps (and the RNC charts mentioned above) are all freely
available and can be used with programs like Ozi Explorer PC and Ozi-CE
on desktops, laptops, and some handheld PDAs. And you can scan images
and make your own maps for the Ozi softwares. But you'll run into a lot
of other considerations and issues there. Things such as the type of
GPS receiver, power for the GPSr and the PDA, water and weather
proofing, daylight viewability, etc.
The real killer for many is that you will not have autorouting for
street and highway driving unless you use one of the proprietary and
optional commercial software packages.
> Is there any free source of road maps? I find that the S&T data is way out
> of date in any area (like FL) where there is active development going on.
> It's frustrating to pay the big bucks for their map data and find it is so
> useless looking for my friends new condo in Jupiter
Not that I know of. Other than that the USGS topo maps have most roads
shown on them (with no autorouting of course). Are you using S&T 2006?
I upgraded from S&T 2005 to 2006 this winter and thought the data was
the most current I have found to date.
It looks like it is unrealistic to expect to find the newest roads
(roads that are only two or maybe even three years old) in the NavTeq
databases. That looks like a typical lag time for getting them into the
data. But I am very happy with S&T 2006 and thought it was a real
bargain.
> Guess this turned into a bit of a ramble, but maybe someone willing to share
> has obtained more function for lower cost already.
Yeah, and I rambled some too. :> ) But I eagerly await hearing from
anyone that has found something like a rugged handheld with a SiRF III
chipset, a larger daylight display, and an open architecture for
mapping. I'll buy one of those and even give up autorouting.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| Jack Erbes 2006-03-20, 5:48 pm |
| peter wrote:
<snip detailed answers to *all* of my questions>
> I wrote "some" above, i.e. multiple, not "one"...
<snip>
Thank you! Thanks for the detailed reply and all the other info!
I think it is inevitable that I'll want to buy a new GPS in the next
year or so and the info I'm getting here is going to be a lot of help in
making the decision.
The Magellan's have worked well enough for me up to now but their
hardware and software seems to be headed off in a direction that will
have me changing brands.
Thanks again for your time.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
|
| Paul Lady wrote:
> Peter, thx for your very helpful response. It does look like the 60Cx
> (don't need the compass) is a pretty sweet unit for the combination of
> functions that I'm looking for.
Fwiiw, I love my compass - provided you can hold or mount the unit
horizontally (not in the car, but on a bike or perhaps boat), it rotates
the maps even if you stand still or move slowly.
I had my compass-epiphany when I walked in an unknown town at night and
all I had to do it to pick up the unit and be in the know which sidewalk
not to take. These are things that score well even with the ladies :)
|
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