Garmin GPS - Re: Does TomTom, as a company, know about something called Usenet?

Author

Re: Does TomTom, as a company, know about something called Usenet?

Ramon F Herrera

2007-01-19, 10:33 pm

martin.shoebridge wrote:
> "Ramon F Herrera" <ramon@conexus.net> wrote in message
> news:1169224566.729774.12380@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.ipmart-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=382

Let me rephrase that:

Get your own Usenet newsgroups already!

Aren't there some enterprising TomTom users or employees out there?

We should have:

alt.satellite.gps
alt.satellite.gps.garmin
alt.satellite.gps.magellan
alt.satellite.gps.tomtom <-- DOA, MIA

The fact that TomTom Technical Support hasn't started that Usenet
newsgroup, reflects very poorly on their Internet experience and
orientation. Maybe Europe is less Usenet-capable? Are they to cool for
Usenet?

-Ramon

Jack Erbes

2007-01-19, 10:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> martin.shoebridge wrote:
>
> Let me rephrase that:
>
> Get your own Usenet newsgroups already!
>
> Aren't there some enterprising TomTom users or employees out there?
>
> We should have:
>
> alt.satellite.gps
> alt.satellite.gps.garmin
> alt.satellite.gps.magellan
> alt.satellite.gps.tomtom <-- DOA, MIA
>
> The fact that TomTom Technical Support hasn't started that Usenet
> newsgroup, reflects very poorly on their Internet experience and
> orientation. Maybe Europe is less Usenet-capable? Are they to cool for
> Usenet?

Usenet newsgroups are public forums, anyone can start one. The fact
that there is not one does not place the onus on Tom Tom to start one.
They cannot use it it for business purposes so if Tom Tom wants to start
a forum they would have to start a private forum.

You're a little out of line for trying to run those folks off. It is
not your job or anyone else's. There is no prohibition on discussing
Tom Tom GPS here. If there is no more specific newsgroup, this is an
appropriate one.

Just ignore it. You are disoriented and having a bad experience. :> )

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

Jack Erbes

2007-01-19, 10:33 pm

Jack Erbes wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>
> Usenet newsgroups are public forums, anyone can start one. The fact
> that there is not one does not place the onus on Tom Tom to start one.
> They cannot use it it for business purposes so if Tom Tom wants to start
> a forum they would have to start a private forum.
>
> You're a little out of line for trying to run those folks off. It is
> not your job or anyone else's. There is no prohibition on discussing
> Tom Tom GPS here. If there is no more specific newsgroup, this is an
> appropriate one.
>
> Just ignore it. You are disoriented and having a bad experience. :> )
>
> Jack

Ramon,

Read up on cross posting too.

The Tom Tom posts that got you going were were only to
alt.satellite.gps, why would you cross post this to three other
newsgroups?

My bad was replying to all the cross posted groups, I should have caught
that in my first reply.

Friendly advice, no flaming intended.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

Stephen King

2007-01-20, 4:33 am

Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in
news:7NGdnUQaurJHCyz
YnZ2dnUVZ_revnZ2d@ad
elphia.com:

> Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>
> Usenet newsgroups are public forums, anyone can start one. The fact
> that there is not one does not place the onus on Tom Tom to start one.
> They cannot use it it for business purposes so if Tom Tom wants to start
> a forum they would have to start a private forum.
>
> You're a little out of line for trying to run those folks off. It is
> not your job or anyone else's. There is no prohibition on discussing
> Tom Tom GPS here. If there is no more specific newsgroup, this is an
> appropriate one.
>
> Just ignore it. You are disoriented and having a bad experience. :> )
>
> Jack
>

Hey that OP complainer better demand a refund. LOL.

Kevin Weaver

2007-01-20, 4:33 am

Or that there product is better then the rest and they have fewer
problems with there units. :)

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> martin.shoebridge wrote:
>
> Let me rephrase that:
>
> Get your own Usenet newsgroups already!
>
> Aren't there some enterprising TomTom users or employees out there?
>
> We should have:
>
> alt.satellite.gps
> alt.satellite.gps.garmin
> alt.satellite.gps.magellan
> alt.satellite.gps.tomtom <-- DOA, MIA
>
> The fact that TomTom Technical Support hasn't started that Usenet
> newsgroup, reflects very poorly on their Internet experience and
> orientation. Maybe Europe is less Usenet-capable? Are they to cool for
> Usenet?
>
> -Ramon
>

Jack Erbes

2007-01-21, 12:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> Jack Erbes wrote:
>
> Jack:
>
> You are some 15 years late with the business purpose rule. Besides, the
> non-commercial limitation was imposed on the Internet, never on Usenet.
> Would you say that the following groups had absolutely no relationship
> with the corresponding company?
>
> comp.databases.oracle.*
> comp.dcom.sys.cisco
> (and a very long etcetera).
>
> And even:
>
> borland.*.*..
> microsoft.*.*..

You tell me. Are Oracle, Cisco, Borland, MicroSoft, etc., sponsoring
those groups? Are they participating in discussions there as official
or recognized representatives of those companies?

I don't consider posts from any employees of the companies to to be
official and recognized. And, last I knew, the use of those names in
the newsgroup names did not mean the companies were sanctioning the
groups in any way, shape, or form. Garmin is not here in any official
capacity, did you know that?

If you go to Tom Tom web page and search for it, there is no mention of
any Tom Tom forums. If you go to Cisco's home page and do a search for
forums it produces this page full of forums:

http://forums.cisco.com/eforum/serv...tProf?page=main

The Cisco Internet forums are official organs of the company and there
are parallel examples of those kinds of commercially sponsored Internet
forums throughout the Internet. They are *not* USENET newsgroups in any
sense of the word.

Here is a page with good background on and descriptions of USENET:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Usene...wsgro
ups

Here is a page with good background on and descriptions of Internet forums:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

As you can see, they are clearly two different things.

We are participating here in an unmoderated newsgroup and I think that
is what you proposed the posters form. Even if this were a moderated
newsgroup (and only a very small minority of newsgroups are moderated)
it is unlikely that a corporation like Tom Tom NV would have written the
charter for and formed a USENET newsgroup.

In fact, I don't know that they could even do it under the "rules" of
USENET.

> The newsgroup I am proposing (too bad I don't run newsgroup servers
> anymore, or I would create it myself) is alt.satellite.gps.tomtom.

I don't think you understand the difference between USENET and Internet
forums. When you "ran newsgroup servers" did you control or edit the
content of individual newsgroups? My acquaintance with USENET servers
in the past was that they were pretty autonomous. If anyone wanted to
host USENET content, they pretty much had to host what the users of the
servers wanted to read.

> Are
> you saying that the newsgroup in question wouldn't be in the interest
> of TomTom Corp's business?

I'm saying that it would not necessarily be in their best interests.
But a commercial forum created by them, and stored on their servers,
would be in their business interests. Since they would have no control
of the content and no official standing on an unmoderated USENET
newsgroup it could actually act against their best interests.

> Are you saying that a TomTom techie is
> forbidden from creating it?

Nope, I'm not saying that yet. I'd have to study the rules some more
answer that question. Why don't we do this, you cite a USENET reference
or document for me that says a "Tom Tom techie" *can* do it. I think he
can do it, and that an employer can approve their doing it. But I don't
know of anyway for Tom Tom to have any control of or "standing" in the
group.

> Additionally, the alt.* hierarchy is devoid of the rules imposed on the
> traditional ones.

I agree. I remember when that got started. I think it was originally
intended to provide groups where potentially offensive content or topics
that were outside of mainstream moral and social standards could be
hosted. And they also provided a place for posting binaries.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

Jack Erbes

2007-01-21, 12:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
<snip>
>
> Quite the opposite. I think they deserve a nice home like everybody
> else, instead of living in the public park.
>
>
> Really? How do you think new newsgroups are created?
>

Something like this:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/cre...wsgroups/part1/

You're going to have to start doing at least some of your own research.
Have you studied this matter at all?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

Jack Erbes

2007-01-21, 3:33 pm

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
<snip>
>
> Well, my job at the time involved connecting countries to the Internet.
> I also created several newsgroups, mainly soc.culture.venezuela.
>
> You can Google for
>
> herrera at mit dot edu
>
> I believe there are some relevant messages still around.
>
> I can testify about the role that Al Gore played. He got a really bad
> and unjust rap from thoughtless people, when all we Internet users
> should be grateful to him. I worked with him, and my MIT boss had to go
> to Congress to hearings, etc., etc.

Okay, all USENET and Internet stuff happened back in the late 80's, have
you brushed up on any of it recently?

Add, not that it adds anything to the argument, I used the Internet
before it became the Internet. I'm 65 years old, retired military, and
had a little more than a passing acquaintance with DARPA's ARPANET and
the things that lead up to the Internet as it is today.

If I had to testify today about Gore's contribution to the "invention of
the Internet" about the most I could say would be that, as a member of
Congress and later as Vice President, he did not do anything to prevent
it. Gore's claim that "During my service in the United States Congress,
I took the initiative in creating the Internet" is shallow and vacuous
at best and intended to foster his political ambitions. Nothing more
than that.

Please don't read anything in this discussion as anything but pleasant
natured and open minded. I've not studied USENET newsgroups in any
depth recently either.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

LinkBot