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New to GPS - couple of questions....
|
|
|
| Hi,
spent the last 48 hours trawling the net and now have mental indigestion!
:-)
Planning a 15 day walk in the UK in May (Coast to coast). Also plan on
taking a GPS (as well as compass and maps!) - Having heard that - at times
the track is NOT well marked and visibility can be a problem. Longer term -
will be doing other long distance walks in UK and US.
Trying to decide what GPS to buy, AND what I can do with it.
Currently -
PLAN :- use maps/compass/natural landmarks as needed with unit
intermittently turned on to confirm position, and for use when direction to
go is ambiguous. ie it will NOT be on 8 - 10 hours a day making it's own
Tracklog!
BEFORE I GO - Scan in a detailed map (the one I am using on the track) to
my computer (PC), calibrate it and plot the entire course using waypoints
and a tracklog/path. D/l this tracklog and waypoints to the unit. YES I do
have the spare time :-)
Expectations on the track - unit will display position, deviations from
saved tracklog and headings as required to waypoints.....
Considering GPS 60 , GPS map60, GPS map 60 csx
Questions:
Firstly am I being unrealistic in my expectations, or just plain wrong??
2) I gather that I am unlikely to be able to d/l a true topographic maps to
the GPS (for the UK at least) as the map encoding is proprietary... and
Garmin don't supply these. IF so - doubt there is a good reason for a
GPSmap over the GPS60? Is that correct?
3) what software ( free/shareware or commercial) would you suggest for the
creation of my tracklog? Does the Garmin supplied software do what I want -
(Trip and waypoint manager)
4) lastly - which GPS and why - I am happy to consider OTHER units than
above FWIW. Please remember - I have to carry it!
Thanks for all/any thoughts and help
Tim
Australia
AM I being too optimistic?
| |
| Ted Ferenc 2007-02-11, 4:33 am |
| "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:eqmaue$bgs$1@ne
ws-02.connect.com.au...
> Hi,
> spent the last 48 hours trawling the net and now have mental indigestion!
> :-)
>
> Planning a 15 day walk in the UK in May (Coast to coast). Also plan on
> taking a GPS (as well as compass and maps!) - Having heard that - at times
> the track is NOT well marked and visibility can be a problem. Longer
term -
> will be doing other long distance walks in UK and US.
>
> Trying to decide what GPS to buy, AND what I can do with it.
>
> Currently -
>
> PLAN :- use maps/compass/natural landmarks as needed with unit
> intermittently turned on to confirm position, and for use when direction
to
> go is ambiguous. ie it will NOT be on 8 - 10 hours a day making it's own
> Tracklog!
>
> BEFORE I GO - Scan in a detailed map (the one I am using on the track) to
> my computer (PC), calibrate it and plot the entire course using waypoints
> and a tracklog/path. D/l this tracklog and waypoints to the unit. YES I do
> have the spare time :-)
>
> Expectations on the track - unit will display position, deviations from
> saved tracklog and headings as required to waypoints.....
>
> Considering GPS 60 , GPS map60, GPS map 60 csx
>
> Questions:
>
> Firstly am I being unrealistic in my expectations, or just plain wrong??
>
> 2) I gather that I am unlikely to be able to d/l a true topographic maps
to
> the GPS (for the UK at least) as the map encoding is proprietary... and
> Garmin don't supply these. IF so - doubt there is a good reason for a
> GPSmap over the GPS60? Is that correct?
>
> 3) what software ( free/shareware or commercial) would you suggest for the
> creation of my tracklog? Does the Garmin supplied software do what I
ant -
> (Trip and waypoint manager)
>
> 4) lastly - which GPS and why - I am happy to consider OTHER units than
> above FWIW. Please remember - I have to carry it!
>
> Thanks for all/any thoughts and help
>
> Tim
> Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AM I being too optimistic?
>
>
>
I normally walk in the Peak District, but if you buy the 1:25000 maps for
your walk, you won't have a problem. I use a basic Yellow Etrex mainly to
keep a tracklog and to confrm my position when I can't find the path in mist
etc. The laminated maps are 'best' although they are bulky and expensive, a
map case and paper maps may be adequate for your walk, as I assume you won't
use the maps again once you have finished?
I don't know how familiar you are with the UK terrain and 1:25000 maps, but
unless you are in thick mist it and you are walking in the hills it is
difficult to get lost, providing you know how to read a map and use a
compass. The maps are very detailed, if you wan't to check the detail of the
maps use this Ordnance Survey site:-
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/
Click on 'Get-a-Map' button just input a grid reference from some point of
your planned walk, if you have the patience you can view the entire walk!
--
Ted Ferenc (http://gpssharing.com)
This address used is maintained only for newsgroup posting.
Mail sent there may not be read by me for several days.
| |
| Ted Ferenc 2007-02-11, 4:33 am |
| "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:eqmaue$bgs$1@ne
ws-02.connect.com.au...
> Hi,
> spent the last 48 hours trawling the net and now have mental indigestion!
> :-)
>
> Planning a 15 day walk in the UK in May (Coast to coast). Also plan on
> taking a GPS (as well as compass and maps!) - Having heard that - at times
> the track is NOT well marked and visibility can be a problem. Longer
term -
> will be doing other long distance walks in UK and US.
>
> Trying to decide what GPS to buy, AND what I can do with it.
>
> Currently -
>
> PLAN :- use maps/compass/natural landmarks as needed with unit
> intermittently turned on to confirm position, and for use when direction
to
> go is ambiguous. ie it will NOT be on 8 - 10 hours a day making it's own
> Tracklog!
>
> BEFORE I GO - Scan in a detailed map (the one I am using on the track) to
> my computer (PC), calibrate it and plot the entire course using waypoints
> and a tracklog/path. D/l this tracklog and waypoints to the unit. YES I do
> have the spare time :-)
>
> Expectations on the track - unit will display position, deviations from
> saved tracklog and headings as required to waypoints.....
>
> Considering GPS 60 , GPS map60, GPS map 60 csx
>
> Questions:
>
> Firstly am I being unrealistic in my expectations, or just plain wrong??
>
> 2) I gather that I am unlikely to be able to d/l a true topographic maps
to
> the GPS (for the UK at least) as the map encoding is proprietary... and
> Garmin don't supply these. IF so - doubt there is a good reason for a
> GPSmap over the GPS60? Is that correct?
>
> 3) what software ( free/shareware or commercial) would you suggest for the
> creation of my tracklog? Does the Garmin supplied software do what I
ant -
> (Trip and waypoint manager)
>
> 4) lastly - which GPS and why - I am happy to consider OTHER units than
> above FWIW. Please remember - I have to carry it!
>
> Thanks for all/any thoughts and help
>
> Tim
> Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AM I being too optimistic?
>
>
>
I forgot to mention, have a browse through this forum for coast to coast
info, or ask any specific questions there, you will find plently of people
who have done that walk walk hang out there.
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.walking?lnk=lr
--
Ted Ferenc (http://gpssharing.com)
This address used is maintained only for newsgroup posting.
Mail sent there may not be read by me for several days.
| |
|
|
"Ted Ferenc" <tedferenc@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45cedfa3@212.67.96.135...
> I forgot to mention, have a browse through this forum for coast to coast
> info, or ask any specific questions there, you will find plently of people
> who have done that walk walk hang out there.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.walking?lnk=lr
>
> --
>
> Ted Ferenc (http://gpssharing.com)
> This address used is maintained only for newsgroup posting.
> Mail sent there may not be read by me for several days.
>
>
>
Thanks for your comments Ted,
Had a good look at the news group - don't know how I missed it!
I appreciate that i may not NEED a gps :-) but I want one!! In reality - I
expect to be doing a lot MORE walking in UK ansd USA so this would be a good
chance to try out the system - I appreciate the likelyhood of it being
unnecesary.
Also a correction - I find that Garmin DOES produce Topographic maps of
Great Britain ( at 110 pounds mind you!)
I note you have a gps site of your own, and would appreciate your comments
re my queries if you anything else to add
Cheers
Tim
| |
|
| "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote:
I use a 60csx with uk topo and find it an excellent product will do all you
need to do !!
| |
|
|
"Pat" <poppy@poppadom.com> wrote in message
news:part1of1.1.gSxH8Tng8KfV$Q@ue.ph...
> "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote:
> I use a 60csx with uk topo and find it an excellent product will do all
> you
> need to do !!
Thanks Pat - did it really cost 100 pounds?
| |
|
| "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote:
Just like to add that someone posted uk topo in the warez newsgroup awhile ago
and it worked fine on my 60csx apart from not showing paths but all contour
lines was there.
| |
|
| "Tack" <nottachance@noway.com> wrote:
>"Pat" <poppy@poppadom.com> wrote in message
>news:part1of1.1.gSxH8Tng8KfV$Q@ue.ph...
>
No ! It's free to download. :-)) From alt.binaries.warez (Hasten to add it's
not there at the moment but there is other topo's that might interest ya.)You
do need mapsource prog on your pc to veiw and transfer to gps !
>Thanks Pat - did it really cost 100 pounds?
| |
| Broadback 2007-02-11, 7:33 am |
| Pat wrote:
> "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote:
> Just like to add that someone posted uk topo in the warez newsgroup awhile ago
> and it worked fine on my 60csx apart from not showing paths but all contour
> lines was there.
Just to add my 2 penny worth. Very near where I live is a footpath, not
well marked. Even though I have the 1:25000 map I was unable to
ascertain the actual route. Being now a proud possessor of a Garmin
60CSX with its aid I was able to find the route. Sadly I have not yet
found a map that can be downloaded onto it that has comprehensive
footpaths. However if you had Memory Map Coast to Coast I am certain
that you would have no problems, as you can then plan your walk, print
off the map then download the route into your GPS.
| |
| Steve Calvin 2007-02-11, 7:33 am |
| Broadback wrote:
> Pat wrote:
> Just to add my 2 penny worth. Very near where I live is a footpath, not
> well marked. Even though I have the 1:25000 map I was unable to
> ascertain the actual route. Being now a proud possessor of a Garmin
> 60CSX with its aid I was able to find the route. Sadly I have not yet
> found a map that can be downloaded onto it that has comprehensive
> footpaths. However if you had Memory Map Coast to Coast I am certain
> that you would have no problems, as you can then plan your walk, print
> off the map then download the route into your GPS.
I would add to definitely go with a CSx model. 60 or 76 is
up to you. If you search this group's history you'll find an
excellent post that Jack made comparing the two. I
personally think that the 76 has a couple of things that
make it better (for me). Floats, waterproof, easy access to
the memory card are a few.
Which ever model you decide on, plan on getting a SanDisk
microSD memory card for it. At least 2Gb. The batteries
that work the best for me is the camera Lithium Ion's.
They're a bit more $ but seem to last the longest.
--
Steve
| |
| w a y p o i n t 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
|
You don't have any issues with the unit(60 & 76 series) shutting down due to
the higher initial voltages? What's the brand of these camera Li-Ions that
you're talking about?
Thanks!
BR,
w a y
Steve Calvin wrote:
> Broadback wrote:
>The batteries
> that work the best for me is the camera Lithium Ion's.
> They're a bit more $ but seem to last the longest.
| |
| Steve Calvin 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
| w a y p o i n t wrote:
> You don't have any issues with the unit(60 & 76 series) shutting down due to
> the higher initial voltages? What's the brand of these camera Li-Ions that
> you're talking about?
>
> Thanks!
>
> BR,
> w a y
>
> Steve Calvin wrote:
>
>
Energizer Lithium
(http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx).
I've read about the shutdown issue and have never seen in in
my 76S, 76CS, or now the 76CSx.
--
Steve
| |
| Keith G. Powell 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
|
"Tack" <nottachance@noway.com> wrote in message
news:eqmqqg$37g$1@ne
ws-02.connect.com.au...
> Thanks for your comments Ted,
> Had a good look at the news group - don't know how I missed it!
>
> I appreciate that i may not NEED a gps :-) but I want one!! In reality -
> I expect to be doing a lot MORE walking in UK ansd USA so this would be a
> good chance to try out the system - I appreciate the likelyhood of it
> being unnecesary.
>
> Also a correction - I find that Garmin DOES produce Topographic maps of
> Great Britain ( at 110 pounds mind you!)
>
> I note you have a gps site of your own, and would appreciate your comments
> re my queries if you anything else to add
> Cheers
> Tim
If you buy a 60/75CSx with Great Britain Topo on a preloaded 2GB microSD
card rather than on CD/DVD, you will also be able to autorouting to help you
navigate around the UK on roads. It may even have Wainrights Coast to Coast
footpath on it? I assume you are talking about Wainrights footpath?
I bought on Ebay, a new 60CSx (USA basemap version, but the basemaps are
"useless") with the GB Topo on microSD plus a spare 64MB microSD plus
tutorial CD for about 400 pounds GB.
You might like to checkout
http://www.go4awalk.com/longpaths/thecoasttocoast.php
and
http://www.go4awalk.com/logon/join4gps.php
where it appears all the waypoints can be downloaded for a fee, but someone
may have it or there own version for free if you google.
Keith G. Powell
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
| Tack wrote:
> Hi,
> spent the last 48 hours trawling the net and now have mental indigestion!
> :-)
>
> Planning a 15 day walk in the UK in May (Coast to coast). Also plan on
> taking a GPS (as well as compass and maps!) - Having heard that - at times
> the track is NOT well marked and visibility can be a problem. Longer term -
> will be doing other long distance walks in UK and US.
>
> Trying to decide what GPS to buy, AND what I can do with it.
>
Having read your entire plan, I think I'd nominate the Garmin 60 or 76
Cx or CSx. Those are identical in software and features, differ
slightly only in case size and shape. You're posting from AU, if that
is your long term home I'd buy the GPS there to get the localized base
map. If the base map is not important to you, and you're going to be in
the U.S, the prices are generally better here in the U.S. Details as to
why are interspersed below.
> Currently -
>
> PLAN :- use maps/compass/natural landmarks as needed with unit
> intermittently turned on to confirm position, and for use when direction to
> go is ambiguous. ie it will NOT be on 8 - 10 hours a day making it's own
> Tracklog!
I'm partial to looking at tracks later and reliving every golden moment.
You can blank the display, put the GPS in your backpack, and it will
run all day long on one pair of AA cells or less. It will save the
track data to a *.gpx file on the microSD card so track data storage is
basically unlimited. And you can wake the display up whenever you need
some help.
> BEFORE I GO - Scan in a detailed map (the one I am using on the track) to
> my computer (PC), calibrate it and plot the entire course using waypoints
> and a tracklog/path. D/l this tracklog and waypoints to the unit. YES I do
> have the spare time :-)
You can do the map import and calibration and track and waypoint layout
in any of a number of applications. Ozi Explorer comes to mind to me
first but there are other softwares too.
The term "route" is a more widely understood term for what you refer to
as a tracklog and/or a pre-planned track. Routes and waypoints can be
uploaded to the GPS in advance. The models mentioned will store 1,000
waypoints and 50 routes. The maximum number of waypoints that can be in
any one route is 250.
> Expectations on the track - unit will display position, deviations from
> saved tracklog and headings as required to waypoints.....
It will display all of that. The route is your planned path of travel,
the track is the "breadcrumb trial" of your actual travels. The
deviation can be displayed in a data field in real time as your travel.
The deviation (cross track error) will be not saved on thee GPS as
that value but you can see what it was later, at any collected
trackpoint, by reviewing and comparing your planned route and track in
MapSource or one of the many third party GPS utilities. Many good
utilities are listed here:
http://gpsinformation.net/#3rdparty
The rate or frequency of trackpoint collection is user controlled and
variable (based on time or distance) and the 60/76 "x" series models
have a trackpoint capacity of 10,000 points in the active trackpoint
memory. Trackpoint memory will start overwriting itself when it reaches
capacity (or stop collecting if you prefer that). All the trackpoints
collected can be logged to a *.gpx file on the microSD card for late use
in a MapSource or another application.
The data collected for each trackpoint is the position, date and time,
and the GPS elevation (not the altimeter elevation in the CSx models).
Those three items of data are all that are needed to reconstruct your
speeds, elapsed times and distances, and terrain profiles traveled in
another application at a later time.
> Considering GPS 60 , GPS map60, GPS map 60 csx
>
Good choices. I'd stay with the "x" series models to get the unlimited
storage capacity for supplemental mapping and track data. The CSx
models have a built in compass and altimeter. I'd think you would have
a compass in hand and, unless the altimeter is needed, I would choose
the Cx over the CSx to get the best battery life. I already have chosen
the Cx in fact, I have a 76Cx.
> Questions:
>
> Firstly am I being unrealistic in my expectations, or just plain wrong??
>
I don't think so. Even if it falls short of your expectations at times
or in places, some mapping and GPS assistance is always better than none.
> 2) I gather that I am unlikely to be able to d/l a true topographic maps to
> the GPS (for the UK at least) as the map encoding is proprietary... and
> Garmin don't supply these. IF so - doubt there is a good reason for a
> GPSmap over the GPS60? Is that correct?
The descriptions of Garmin's topo mapping for Great Britain (or at least
the parts of it that are covered) makes it sound pretty good as I've
read it here. The GB topo package also does autorouting on roads which
is something the U.S. Topo package does not do. You can see the
coverage and detail in the current version of Garmin's Topo Great
Britain here:
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topogb.jsp
Garmin's mapping is not always the best, the quality and prices vary
from place to place, and it does not have coverage everywhere.
> 3) what software ( free/shareware or commercial) would you suggest for the
> creation of my tracklog? Does the Garmin supplied software do what I want -
> (Trip and waypoint manager)
If you buy any of the optional Garmin MapSource mapping packages, the
mapping data can be installed on your PC. Your MapSource install will
"host" the mapping data in all the packages that you own and you can see
the same maps on the PC you would see on the GPS. And you can place
waypoints there to define a route and upload those to the GPS.
So I would say yes, you can use MapSource to do some of what you want to
do. But you might want to broaden your capabilities to place waypoints
and build routes in other applications that will use non-Garmin mapping
for the more obscure areas. The mapping on the Garmin handhelds is all
in a proprietary format, other maps cannot quickly and easily used on
them. But you can add detail to Garmin maps using some third party
sharewares and freewares. It is a moderately technical process, you can
read more about some of the software used to do it and see some examples
of it at these links:
http://gpsinformation.net/#3rdparty
http://gps.chrisb.org/en/tool.htm
and here are a couple of examples of the maps that can be made:
http://gpssledmaps.com/guide/
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/
The Oregon Topo maps at the last link are probably a good benchmark for
the "home made" maps of the highest quality. Those require more than a
little investment in time and software.
T&WM comes with your GPS. If you install that it will install the
MapSource application and a low resolution world map that shows national
boundaries, major highways, and larger towns and cities. It has little
other detail. You can place waypoints and build routes on it and those
can be saved and/or uploaded. Any downloaded or imported data can also
be displayed over the map. The data will be accurately placed but there
will be little detail to reference it to. The term data generally means
waypoints, routes, and tracks.
As you use MapSource with any Garmin mapping packages you own, you can
import data from a few different file types and the imported data can be
seen, manipulated, and compared to maps with more visual details. And
it can be uploaded to your GPS. Using other third party applications
opens the door to further broaden the data import and upload capabilities.
The Garmin GPSRs have two basic modes of displaying and following
routes. One mode (Follow Roads) is to follow the active vectors drawn
in the mapping from waypoint to waypoint and the waypoints are placed on
the vectors. With Follow Roads your intended route is seen as a colored
line that closely follows the roads.
The second method (Off Road) uses straight line route segments from one
waypoint to the next and is used primarily where there are no vectors
(i.e., roads) to follow. With off road your route is shown as straight
lines from one waypoint to the next without regard for obstacles or
practicality of travel.
On routes for off road travel you place waypoint at places you want to
go to and those define your approximate path of travel. If the
waypoints are placed on trails, those will probably define the best way
to get from one waypoint to the next. After it is all over and done,
you can look at your track displayed over the map and see where you
actually traveled. You can also look at your track on the GPS (the
breadcrumb trail behind you) as you travel and see where you have traveled.
On routes
> 4) lastly - which GPS and why - I am happy to consider OTHER units than
> above FWIW. Please remember - I have to carry it!
I think you've already singled out a good one to start with. An
important advantage of the 60/76 "x" series models is that they use the
SiRF III chip set. That makes them the current benchmark for quality as
far as processing speed and receiver sensitivity. They will attain a
fix quicker and hold it better in heavy cover and rough terrain than
anything else on the consumer market. They also have good displays, are
very efficient on battery power on the trail, and have good mapping and
data storage with the microSD cards.
And the 60/76 "x" models are also probably the most versatile GPS
receivers available for use across the board in on the road, off the
road, and marine use. My 76Cx (North American model for use in the U.S)
is great in the car or on my motorcycle. It will autoroute nationwide
on major highways on the built in base map, autoroute down to individual
street addresses with supplemental mapping, and also use marine and topo
mapping for off road travel. I can leave home with all that mapping on
the GPS on a microSD card and change the type of mapping in use on a
moments notice.
I'm not sure the model best for use in Oz will do all the same things
everywhere and as well. I know some things can't do it as cheaply
and/or maybe as well down there as it can be done here if that is
important. You have some pretty broad horizons for your travels and I
think the 60/76 Cx/CSx is a good start on what you want to do.
> AM I being too optimistic?
>
I think not. Keep us appraised as you go, we'll all learn something
from it.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
| Keith G. Powell wrote:
<snip>
> If you buy a 60/75CSx with Great Britain Topo on a preloaded 2GB microSD
> card rather than on CD/DVD, you will also be able to autorouting to help you
> navigate around the UK on roads.
<snip>
That's an interesting bit of trivia. The GB Topo maps that come on a SD
card will autoroute but the ones you can upload yourself from the DVD do
not? I wonder what accounts for that?
Do you know if the autorouting is using vectors that are part of the
topo mapping or is it doing the autorouting on the underlying/unseen
road vectors in the basemap?
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-02-11, 10:33 am |
| w a y p o i n t wrote:
> You don't have any issues with the unit(60 & 76 series) shutting down due to
> the higher initial voltages? What's the brand of these camera Li-Ions that
> you're talking about?
>
I think the high voltage shutdown problems were in the earlier models
(non "x" series?) that did not have a user controlled setting for
battery type. That and the errors the remaining battery level display
problems were apparently fixed in the newer hardware and software.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| Tim Dunne 2007-02-11, 3:33 pm |
| "Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:F86dnetxPsAJ3VL
YnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ad
elphia.com
> That's an interesting bit of trivia. The GB Topo maps that come on a
> SD card will autoroute but the ones you can upload yourself from the
> DVD do not? I wonder what accounts for that?
Nope. I have UK topo on DVD and it routes just fine on the 60csx.
Tim
--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it's easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it's
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped
| |
|
|
"Pat" <poppy@poppadom.com> wrote in message
news:part1of1.1.fH1m8jQxvT1g3A@ue.ph...
> "Tack" <Tack@nospam.com> wrote:
> Just like to add that someone posted uk topo in the warez newsgroup awhile
> ago
> and it worked fine on my 60csx apart from not showing paths but all
> contour
> lines was there.
Please note - I did NOT post the above comment! Just to clarify!! lol
| |
| Keith G. Powell 2007-02-11, 10:33 pm |
|
"Tim Dunne" < Bit_Bucket@Blueyonde
r.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NfLzh.10185$9S5.491@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> "Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:F86dnetxPsAJ3VL
YnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ad
elphia.com
>
>
> Nope. I have UK topo on DVD and it routes just fine on the 60csx.
>
> Tim
Thanks for this important information.
In previous recent posts, I asked for such info as a survey, as there
seemed to be some confusion(to me at least) as to whether Topo maps could do
autorouting. There were few replies, and you are the first to provide info
on GB Topo *not* preinstalled on a microSD. It seems that other
country(some?) Topo maps installed from CD/DVD do not provide autorouting.
Keith G. Powell
| |
| Keith G. Powell 2007-02-11, 10:33 pm |
|
"Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:F86dnetxPsAJ3VL
YnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ad
elphia.com...
> Keith G. Powell wrote:
>
> <snip>
> <snip>
>
> That's an interesting bit of trivia. The GB Topo maps that come on a SD
> card will autoroute but the ones you can upload yourself from the DVD do
> not? I wonder what accounts for that?
>
> Do you know if the autorouting is using vectors that are part of the topo
> mapping or is it doing the autorouting on the underlying/unseen road
> vectors in the basemap?
>
> Jack
Sorry. A wrong conclusion by me from the limited survey I instigated.
I was trying to be cautious on recommending GB Topos on CD/DVD as we had not
received any information on it. But the wrong conclusion has prompted such
information from Tim Dunne.
See my reply to Tim Dunne.
Keith G. Powell.
| |
|
| Wow! Thank for all the input from every one! Too much to answer each point,
But will try on Jack's post as it contains bits and pieces relevant to most
others. Quick summary from me at the end!!
"Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:7q- dnYiDnePbqFLYnZ2dnUV
Z_oOonZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Tack wrote:
>
> Having read your entire plan, I think I'd nominate the Garmin 60 or 76 Cx
> or CSx. Those are identical in software and features, differ slightly
> only in case size and shape. You're posting from AU, if that is your long
> term home I'd buy the GPS there to get the localized base map. If the
> base map is not important to you, and you're going to be in the U.S, the
> prices are generally better here in the U.S. Details as to why are
> interspersed below.
Point taken - Hadn't considered the 70 - will look into it.
Most likely will buy in Australia from the point of local support. Price is
sloightly more, BUT might as well have the Aus basemap.
>
>
> I'm partial to looking at tracks later and reliving every golden moment.
> You can blank the display, put the GPS in your backpack, and it will run
> all day long on one pair of AA cells or less. It will save the track data
> to a *.gpx file on the microSD card so track data storage is basically
> unlimited. And you can wake the display up whenever you need some help.
>
>
> You can do the map import and calibration and track and waypoint layout in
> any of a number of applications. Ozi Explorer comes to mind to me first
> but there are other softwares too.
Yep Heard of this program (Ozi explorer!) ALSO looking at GPSU 4.3 -
shareware/free ware. Tracklogs digital mapping has ALL I could want, BUT I
need too buy the tracklogs maps to use it with and they are $$ ( about 100
pounds for the C2C series of maps alone! (1:25000 explorer). THEN I can't
d/l the maps to the unit...
>
> The term "route" is a more widely understood term for what you refer to as
> a tracklog and/or a pre-planned track. Routes and waypoints can be
> uploaded to the GPS in advance. The models mentioned will store 1,000
> waypoints and 50 routes. The maximum number of waypoints that can be in
> any one route is 250.
Yep, I meant tracklog specifically NOT route. I understand route as a SERIES
of waypoints and Tracklog as the "breadcrumb trail" that you can back track
on for example ("navigate the saved track" in Garmin speak...).
Ideally - I want to SET my planned trail as a saved TRACK not a route -
thereby getting every twist and turn in with many 100's if not 1000's of
points :-) On this TRACK I would interspersed Waypoints. These WAYPOINTS
could also be sequenced as a ROUTE I guess - but not sure I need to bother
if I have the tracklog there.
Reason for choosing Tracks is that there are so many more points mappable
( as they only contain position data) compared to multiple (limited)
waypoints.
Does this make sense??
>
>
> It will display all of that. The route is your planned path of travel,
> the track is the "breadcrumb trial" of your actual travels. The deviation
> can be displayed in a data field in real time as your travel. The
> deviation (cross track error) will be not saved on thee GPS as that value
> but you can see what it was later, at any collected trackpoint, by
> reviewing and comparing your planned route and track in MapSource or one
> of the many third party GPS utilities. Many good utilities are listed
> here:
>
> http://gpsinformation.net/#3rdparty
WOW - great site!
>
> The rate or frequency of trackpoint collection is user controlled and
> variable (based on time or distance) and the 60/76 "x" series models have
> a trackpoint capacity of 10,000 points in the active trackpoint memory.
> Trackpoint memory will start overwriting itself when it reaches capacity
> (or stop collecting if you prefer that). All the trackpoints collected
> can be logged to a *.gpx file on the microSD card for late use in a
> MapSource or another application.
>
> The data collected for each trackpoint is the position, date and time, and
> the GPS elevation (not the altimeter elevation in the CSx models). Those
> three items of data are all that are needed to reconstruct your speeds,
> elapsed times and distances, and terrain profiles traveled in another
> application at a later time.
>
>
> Good choices. I'd stay with the "x" series models to get the unlimited
> storage capacity for supplemental mapping and track data. The CSx models
> have a built in compass and altimeter. I'd think you would have a compass
> in hand and, unless the altimeter is needed, I would choose the Cx over
> the CSx to get the best battery life. I already have chosen the Cx in
> fact, I have a 76Cx.
Hmm Battery life is relevant to me - think I will forgo the CSX for the Cx
>
>
> I don't think so. Even if it falls short of your expectations at times or
> in places, some mapping and GPS assistance is always better than none.
>
>
> The descriptions of Garmin's topo mapping for Great Britain (or at least
> the parts of it that are covered) makes it sound pretty good as I've read
> it here. The GB topo package also does autorouting on roads which is
> something the U.S. Topo package does not do. You can see the coverage and
> detail in the current version of Garmin's Topo Great Britain here:
>
> http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topogb.jsp
>
> Garmin's mapping is not always the best, the quality and prices vary from
> place to place, and it does not have coverage everywhere.
>
>
>
> If you buy any of the optional Garmin MapSource mapping packages, the
> mapping data can be installed on your PC. Your MapSource install will
> "host" the mapping data in all the packages that you own and you can see
> the same maps on the PC you would see on the GPS. And you can place
> waypoints there to define a route and upload those to the GPS.
>
> So I would say yes, you can use MapSource to do some of what you want to
> do. But you might want to broaden your capabilities to place waypoints
> and build routes in other applications that will use non-Garmin mapping
> for the more obscure areas. The mapping on the Garmin handhelds is all in
> a proprietary format, other maps cannot quickly and easily used on them.
> But you can add detail to Garmin maps using some third party sharewares
> and freewares. It is a moderately technical process, you can read more
> about some of the software used to do it and see some examples of it at
> these links:
>
> http://gpsinformation.net/#3rdparty
> http://gps.chrisb.org/en/tool.htm
>
> and here are a couple of examples of the maps that can be made:
>
> http://gpssledmaps.com/guide/
Fantastic detailed guide - However - not planning on quite that detail! I am
happy to make a detailed Track but not the entire topographic map!!
> http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/
>
> The Oregon Topo maps at the last link are probably a good benchmark for
> the "home made" maps of the highest quality. Those require more than a
> little investment in time and software.
>
> T&WM comes with your GPS. If you install that it will install the
> MapSource application and a low resolution world map that shows national
> boundaries, major highways, and larger towns and cities. It has little
> other detail. You can place waypoints and build routes on it and those
> can be saved and/or uploaded. Any downloaded or imported data can also be
> displayed over the map. The data will be accurately placed but there will
> be little detail to reference it to. The term data generally means
> waypoints, routes, and tracks.
Sounds ok - what level /scale are the maps? 1:100,000 1:50,000 etc etc?
Does it support loading of saved TRACKS back to the gps??
>
> As you use MapSource with any Garmin mapping packages you own, you can
> import data from a few different file types and the imported data can be
> seen, manipulated, and compared to maps with more visual details. And it
> can be uploaded to your GPS. Using other third party applications opens
> the door to further broaden the data import and upload capabilities.
>
> The Garmin GPSRs have two basic modes of displaying and following routes.
> One mode (Follow Roads) is to follow the active vectors drawn in the
> mapping from waypoint to waypoint and the waypoints are placed on the
> vectors. With Follow Roads your intended route is seen as a colored line
> that closely follows the roads.
>
> The second method (Off Road) uses straight line route segments from one
> waypoint to the next and is used primarily where there are no vectors
> (i.e., roads) to follow.
And that is also why I am using TRACKS rather than just Routes - assuming my
thinking is correct??
[color=darkred]
>
> On routes for off road travel you place waypoint at places you want to go
> to and those define your approximate path of travel. If the waypoints are
> placed on trails, those will probably define the best way to get from one
> waypoint to the next.
Problem being that there are no TRAILS displayed on the gps - unless I buy a
detailed map to upload - even then - many of the rights of way seem to be
left off.....
>After it is all over and done, you can look at your track displayed over
>the map and see where you actually traveled. You can also look at your
>track on the GPS (the breadcrumb trail behind you) as you travel and see
>where you have traveled.
>
> On routes
>
> I think you've already singled out a good one to start with. An important
> advantage of the 60/76 "x" series models is that they use the SiRF III
> chip set. That makes them the current benchmark for quality as far as
> processing speed and receiver sensitivity. They will attain a fix quicker
> and hold it better in heavy cover and rough terrain than anything else on
> the consumer market. They also have good displays, are very efficient on
> battery power on the trail, and have good mapping and data storage with
> the microSD cards.
>
> And the 60/76 "x" models are also probably the most versatile GPS
> receivers available for use across the board in on the road, off the road,
> and marine use. My 76Cx (North American model for use in the U.S) is
> great in the car or on my motorcycle. It will autoroute nationwide on
> major highways on the built in base map, autoroute down to individual
> street addresses with supplemental mapping, and also use marine and topo
> mapping for off road travel. I can leave home with all that mapping on
> the GPS on a microSD card and change the type of mapping in use on a
> moments notice.
>
> I'm not sure the model best for use in Oz will do all the same things
> everywhere and as well. I know some things can't do it as cheaply and/or
> maybe as well down there as it can be done here if that is important. You
> have some pretty broad horizons for your travels and I think the 60/76
> Cx/CSx is a good start on what you want to do.
>
>
> I think not. Keep us appraised as you go, we'll all learn something from
> it.
>
> Jack
>
> --
> Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
> (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
Jack,
your response and the others are HUGELY appreciated :-)
In summary , I wonder if my "solution" to use a predrawn TRAIL (with
occasional major waypoints) is correct.
My intention is to get more points on the gps to follow (if needed) than I
could get with multiple waypoints and their sequence or route?
This would be irrelevant if I could load a sufficiently detailed map BUT as
far as I can see - even the digitised OS 1:25000 explorer maps of the
regions the (Wainwrights) Coast to coast path runs through do NOT have all
the tracks marked on them. In comparison, my 1:40,000 Harvey strip map of
the C2C has all the detail that I can think I would need to scan, calibrate
and plot a track on.....
I have decided to go with the recommendation I am hearing about so much :-
the GPSMAP 60Cx
Many thanks to all for the detailed input - happy to hear more!
Tim
Australia
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-02-11, 10:33 pm |
| Keith G. Powell wrote:
> "Tim Dunne" < Bit_Bucket@Blueyonde
r.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:NfLzh.10185$9S5.491@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> Thanks for this important information.
>
> In previous recent posts, I asked for such info as a survey, as there
> seemed to be some confusion(to me at least) as to whether Topo maps could do
> autorouting. There were few replies, and you are the first to provide info
> on GB Topo *not* preinstalled on a microSD. It seems that other
> country(some?) Topo maps installed from CD/DVD do not provide autorouting.
We may not have gotten to the bottom of this yet.
I have 76Cx with the North American basemap. And I have both U.S. Topo
and City Navigator detail maps on the microSD card. If turn off all the
maps except the U.S. Topo maps and activate a route that travels on
paved roads, electing to follow roads, I get an error saying "Route
Calculation Error: No Roads near starting point".
If I turn on the basemap and the U.S. Topo maps I still see the topo map
details, not the basemap details. If I then activate the route it
accepts the follow roads choice and it calculates the route using the
basemap roads. It displays the topo map detail during all this and
while navigating the route because U.S. Topo maps are higher in the map
display pecking order than the basemap.
Because of the way that happens, I'm assuming that the unseen basemap
roads are used for autorouting when topo maps are chosen for use and the
basemap is not turned off.
That is what prompted my question above as to whether or not the GB Topo
package is actually doing the autorouting on the basemap roads when it
appears to be autorouting on the roads shown on the topo mapping.
I assume that most roads are shown in the details on the GPS topo maps
and that, as in the U.S., those details are drawn directly on top of the
same roads on the basemap. That might convey the impression that the
GPS is autorouting on the topo map roads when it is actually using the
basemap roads.
If we keep banging this around here, we may figure out how it works yet.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| Tim Dunne 2007-02-12, 4:33 am |
| "Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:5OydnWtmR5- rWlLYnZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2
d@adelphia.com
> Because of the way that happens, I'm assuming that the unseen basemap
> roads are used for autorouting when topo maps are chosen for use and
> the basemap is not turned off.
Nope. When I set up a route it asks if I want paths or roads.
Tim
--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it's easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it's
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped
| |
| Ted Ferenc 2007-02-12, 4:33 am |
| > Thanks for your comments Ted,
> Had a good look at the news group - don't know how I missed it!
>
> I appreciate that i may not NEED a gps :-) but I want one!! In reality -
I
> expect to be doing a lot MORE walking in UK ansd USA so this would be a
good
> chance to try out the system - I appreciate the likelyhood of it being
> unnecesary.
>
> Also a correction - I find that Garmin DOES produce Topographic maps of
> Great Britain ( at 110 pounds mind you!)
>
> I note you have a gps site of your own, and would appreciate your comments
> re my queries if you anything else to add
> Cheers
> Tim
>
>
Advice? Ask question in the uk.rec.walking newsgroup we are a friendly bunch
the advice is generally very good!
Well I would say I am a luddite, from what I have seen on the topo maps, I
personally would not buy one, not for the walking I do in the UK. I wrote a
GPS prog, like OziExplorer over 10 years ago, but never developed it because
to buy the digital OS maps was too expensive. But the features that had were
far better than the route drawing software the Garmin software does, try
drawing a track and modifying one waypoint to add say a loop to some point
and back again. I would suggest you get a demo in one of your local shop,
after lots of people seem to like it. Perhaps my coment is wrong and the
person showing me could not use the software, I don't know.
I have been given bootleg programs such as Anquet, they have been on my PC
for a few hours only, because I just detest how they work, but there again I
was writing CAD/CAM software some 30 years ago, so perhaps I am biased. But
there again lots of people use these programs so perhaps it is just me that
hates them.
IMHO you still need paper maps, it your GPS is damaged you can be stuck, on
the coast to coast, you will nearly always be within a couple of miles of
habitation, in May the weather should be OK, visibily good and the rain will
be warm, so it would not be a life or death problem.
I would like a better GPS but I could not justify the price, my Etrex came
from Canada it was half the UK price. But as you say they are nice toys! I
mainly use it for logging a track for my records.
I hope you enjoy the coast to coast walk.
--
Ted Ferenc (http://gpssharing.com)
This address used is maintained only for newsgroup posting.
Mail sent there may not be read by me for several days.
| |
|
|
"Ted Ferenc" <tedferenc@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45d02f51@212.67.96.135...
.......................SNIP................[color=darkred]
..........SNIP..............[color=darkred]
>
> IMHO you still need paper maps, it your GPS is damaged you can be stuck,
> on
> the coast to coast, you will nearly always be within a couple of miles of
> habitation, in May the weather should be OK, visibily good and the rain
> will
> be warm, so it would not be a life or death problem.
Agree absolutley! As I said - taking Maps, compass anyway :-)
>
> I would like a better GPS but I could not justify the price, my Etrex came
> from Canada it was half the UK price. But as you say they are nice toys! I
> mainly use it for logging a track for my records.
Unserstood :-)
> I hope you enjoy the coast to coast walk.
>
THANKS!!
>
> Ted Ferenc (http://gpssharing.com)
> This address used is maintained only for newsgroup posting.
> Mail sent there may not be read by me for several days.
>
>
>
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-02-12, 7:33 am |
| Tim Dunne wrote:
> "Jack Erbes" <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:5OydnWtmR5- rWlLYnZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2
d@adelphia.com
>
>
> Nope. When I set up a route it asks if I want paths or roads.
I think it asks that question without regard for the availability of
roads. It is only after you choose to use roads that it looks for them
and determines if they are any there.
You can test that by turning off all the maps including the basemap and
then turning on only the topo map. When I do that I get the no roads
error. If I turn the basemap on, it finds road even though they are not
seen.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
| John William Hughes 2007-02-13, 3:33 pm |
| Tack wrote:
> Considering GPS 60 , GPS map60, GPS map 60 csx
Any GPS will be fine if you aren't planning to buy any Garmin software
to upload mapping data. Buy the cheapest or a used GPS from eBay.
>
> Questions:
>
> Firstly am I being unrealistic in my expectations, or just plain wrong??
>
> 2) I gather that I am unlikely to be able to d/l a true topographic maps to
> the GPS (for the UK at least) as the map encoding is proprietary... and
> Garmin don't supply these. IF so - doubt there is a good reason for a
> GPSmap over the GPS60? Is that correct?
I use GB Topo 2 but it's quite old and it won't have the C2C or TPT
built in like Ordinance Survey maps.
www.c2c-guide.co.uk
www.transpenninetrail.org.uk
> 3) what software ( free/shareware or commercial) would you suggest for the
> creation of my tracklog? Does the Garmin supplied software do what I want -
> (Trip and waypoint manager)
Tracklogs is probably the best but expensive.
> 4) lastly - which GPS and why - I am happy to consider OTHER units than
> above FWIW. Please remember - I have to carry it!
If all you want is a locator fix and track log then the cheapest will
do, something like an eTrex. If you're going to get into mapping then
the Garmin GPS60 Cx/CSx does it all and has expandable memory.
| |
| Keith G. Powell 2007-02-15, 3:33 pm |
|
"Keith G. Powell" <keith.powell@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:45cf2557$0$8711
$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Tack" <nottachance@noway.com> wrote in message
> news:eqmqqg$37g$1@ne
ws-02.connect.com.au...
>
>
> If you buy a 60/75CSx with Great Britain Topo on a preloaded 2GB microSD
> card rather than on CD/DVD, you will also be able to autorouting to help
> you navigate around the UK on roads. It may even have Wainrights Coast to
> Coast footpath on it? I assume you are talking about Wainrights footpath?
>
> I bought on Ebay, a new 60CSx (USA basemap version, but the basemaps are
> "useless") with the GB Topo on microSD plus a spare 64MB microSD plus
> tutorial CD for about 400 pounds GB.
>
> You might like to checkout
> http://www.go4awalk.com/longpaths/thecoasttocoast.php
> and
> http://www.go4awalk.com/logon/join4gps.php
>
> where it appears all the waypoints can be downloaded for a fee, but
> someone may have it or there own version for free if you google.
>
>
> Keith G. Powell
Wainwrights Coast to Coast footpath along with details of campsites along
the route, natural features, pubs, cafes, villages and the National Parks it
passes through has been added to Google Earth.
see http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat...r=706826&page=0
I don't know if it could be imported to the Garmins?
Keith G. Powell
| |
|
|
>
> Wainwrights Coast to Coast footpath along with details of campsites along
> the route, natural features, pubs, cafes, villages and the National Parks
> it passes through has been added to Google Earth.
>
> see http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat...r=706826&page=0
>
> I don't know if it could be imported to the Garmins?
>
> Keith G. Powell
>
>
Thanks Keith - I did grab that - but unsure of its accuracy. I was gonaa
chase the author down and see if he just mapped it direct on Google earth,
or if it was taken from his own track.
I am SURE it can be imported to a garmin - I have exported it in Google
earth format (KZH or whatever) and then imported into GPS trackmaker. this
will interface with garmins :-)
thanks again
Tack
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