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Cellular forums Home > Archive > Garmin GPS > March 2007 > 76CSx Basemap
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| David 2007-03-15, 10:33 am |
| Well, I have received my 76CSx, and it appears that it will be a fine
instrument, as several of you have already assured me.
On one point, however, I am surprised; and perhaps even a bit disappointed.
Unless I have yet to figure out a user setting, it appears that the basemap
has considerably less detail than that of my old 12MAP. The street that I
live on, and several of the adjacent streets, unlike on my 12MAP, do not
even appear.
If anything, I would have expected that the 76 would have had *greater*
detail than the old 12MAP. Am I missing something, or do I now have to
purchase MapSource software to recover my old level of detail?
Thank you very much for your thoughts,
David
| |
| emmbeedee 2007-03-15, 12:33 pm |
| On Mar 15, 9:54 am, David <inva...@socrates.edu> wrote:
> Well, I have received my 76CSx, and it appears that it will be a fine
> instrument, as several of you have already assured me.
>
> On one point, however, I am surprised; and perhaps even a bit disappointed.
> Unless I have yet to figure out a user setting, it appears that the basemap
> has considerably less detail than that of my old 12MAP. The street that I
> live on, and several of the adjacent streets, unlike on my 12MAP, do not
> even appear.
>
> If anything, I would have expected that the 76 would have had *greater*
> detail than the old 12MAP. Am I missing something, or do I now have to
> purchase MapSource software to recover my old level of detail?
>
> Thank you very much for your thoughts,
> David
The basemaps built in to most GPSs are practically useless. I never
have mine off - generally run with Topo Canada and Metroguide Canada
V4 enabled in my case. Though I have City Select, Enhanced basemaps
and of course the basemap in the unit I rarely enable them unless I'm
bored and looking for ways to waste time.
Emm
| |
| emmbeedee 2007-03-15, 12:33 pm |
| On Mar 15, 12:52 pm, "emmbeedee" <emmbee...@gmail.com> wrote:
I never have mine off - should have read I never have mine on...
>
> The basemaps built in to most GPSs are practically useless. I never
> have mine off - generally run with Topo Canada and Metroguide Canada
> V4 enabled in my case. Though I have City Select, Enhanced basemaps
> and of course the basemap in the unit I rarely enable them unless I'm
> bored and looking for ways to waste time.
>
> Emm
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-03-15, 3:33 pm |
| David wrote:
> Well, I have received my 76CSx, and it appears that it will be a fine
> instrument, as several of you have already assured me.
>
> On one point, however, I am surprised; and perhaps even a bit disappointed.
> Unless I have yet to figure out a user setting, it appears that the basemap
> has considerably less detail than that of my old 12MAP. The street that I
> live on, and several of the adjacent streets, unlike on my 12MAP, do not
> even appear.
You are comparing the details on the base maps on the two, right? Not
on a detail map? If it is a detail map, which one is it?
Looking at the descriptions of the base maps from the product pages it
indicates that they should both have similar levels of detail:
http://www.garmin.com/products/gps12map/#
http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76csx/#
I think your 12MAP as old enough that it may have had a base map in it
that used Tele-Atlas data and those always seemed a little busier to the
eye than the NavTeq maps Garmin is using now. If you were using
MetroGuide V4 or earlier you'll probably find the current City Navigator
maps to have, other than streets and roads and POIs, to have less details.
> If anything, I would have expected that the 76 would have had *greater*
> detail than the old 12MAP. Am I missing something, or do I now have to
> purchase MapSource software to recover my old level of detail?
Maybe you're missing something on the 300 or so additional settings for
user preferences and options. :> )
It took me a while to get comfortable with the number and complexity of
the pages and menus on my 76Cx, you'll have more them on you CSx because
the barometer needs some attention too.
As an initial try, you might want to see if the declutter is on or off
and raise the detail level. From the Map page,
Press Menu, choose Map Setup, press Enter
Choose the General icon in the top line, and look down to the Detail
setting. If that is at Normal increasing it to Higher or Highest will
let you see more detail at lower zoom levels.
Press Quit to get back to the Map Page menu and if Turn Declutter Off is
listed, choose that and press Enter to turn it off. With that on, it
suppresses some of the detail at some zoom levels.
On my 76Cx I wound up turning off most of the pages I don't use much and
it still took some time and a fair amount of experimentation get to the
point where I felt like I knew what was going on.
The manual that came with that is probably not up to date with the
changes that have been made in software. And I find it a little obtuse
to read and use. I did sit down in the front room one night and go
through all the menus and submenus on the most used pages and that
helped a lot.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
| |
| David 2007-03-15, 10:33 pm |
| Hi Jack,
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:50:43 -0500, Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>David wrote:
>
>
>You are comparing the details on the base maps on the two, right? Not
>on a detail map? If it is a detail map, which one is it?
Yes, I am comparing the levels of detail on the basemaps that originally
came with the units.
>
>Looking at the descriptions of the base maps from the product pages it
>indicates that they should both have similar levels of detail:
It would seem that way wouldn't it? However, from your links, I note that
the basemap for the 12 is labeled "Americas Highway Basemap", and the one
for the 76 is labeled "Americas Recreational Basemap". So maybe that
partly explains why there are fewer streets in the latter...(?)
>
>http://www.garmin.com/products/gps12map/#
>
>http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76csx/#
>
>I think your 12MAP as old enough that it may have had a base map in it
>that used Tele-Atlas data and those always seemed a little busier to the
>eye than the NavTeq maps Garmin is using now. If you were using
>MetroGuide V4 or earlier you'll probably find the current City Navigator
>maps to have, other than streets and roads and POIs, to have less details.
I was not aware of the Tele-Atlas vs. NavTeq change, so that may well also
explain some of the difference. (I have never used MetroGuide or City
Navigator, so I guess that couldn't account for it.)
>
>
>Maybe you're missing something on the 300 or so additional settings for
>user preferences and options. :> )
>
>It took me a while to get comfortable with the number and complexity of
>the pages and menus on my 76Cx, you'll have more them on you CSx because
>the barometer needs some attention too.
>
>As an initial try, you might want to see if the declutter is on or off
>and raise the detail level. From the Map page,
>
>Press Menu, choose Map Setup, press Enter
>
>Choose the General icon in the top line, and look down to the Detail
>setting. If that is at Normal increasing it to Higher or Highest will
>let you see more detail at lower zoom levels.
I have done this,
>
>Press Quit to get back to the Map Page menu and if Turn Declutter Off is
>listed, choose that and press Enter to turn it off. With that on, it
>suppresses some of the detail at some zoom levels.
And this as well, both as you say.
But neither seem to have any noticeable effect in my location. So, I guess
the difference has to be attributable to one of the other above causes.
That's a bit disappointing because the old 12MAP basemap generally met my
needs pretty well, even though it was pretty inaccurate. But I don't do
much big city driving any more, so really never needed anything much
better. But when I did, Street Atlas in the laptop always worked fine.
I had been hoping to not have to learn any more new software, but it looks
like I now have to get modern. Is City Navigator the recommended package
for the 76? (I should have been paying closer attention to everyone's
posts, but I wasn't expecting to go there...)
>
>On my 76Cx I wound up turning off most of the pages I don't use much and
>it still took some time and a fair amount of experimentation get to the
>point where I felt like I knew what was going on.
>
>The manual that came with that is probably not up to date with the
>changes that have been made in software. And I find it a little obtuse
>to read and use. I did sit down in the front room one night and go
>through all the menus and submenus on the most used pages and that
>helped a lot.
>
Thank you also for these last two tips, Jack. I'm beginning to appreciate
that I will need to do both. In spades! Especially if I have to put City
Navigator in there...
Best regards,
David
| |
| David 2007-03-15, 10:33 pm |
| On 15 Mar 2007 10:06:23 -0700, "emmbeedee" <emmbeedee@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 15, 12:52 pm, "emmbeedee" <emmbee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I never have mine off - should have read I never have mine on...
>
>
>
Hi Emm,
I've gotten a bit frustrated with them myself sometimes, so I can
appreciate where you are coming from. I've just never tried the high-res
MapSource products, so have really never had a comparison to make.
But actually though, most of my real need, (city, country, and marine), is
overseas, where the basemaps are pretty useless anyway. I have been using
WorldMap though, and in lieu of anything better, I have been pretty pleased
with it. (Waypoint coordinates, taken from paper charts and inserted into
WorldMap, have been reasonalbly acceptable.)
What I really want to get functional over there is Ozi on the laptop,
driven by the 76CSx, via USB. But that's going to take a bit more time...
Best regards,
David
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-03-15, 10:33 pm |
| David wrote:
<snip>
> It would seem that way wouldn't it? However, from your links, I note that
> the basemap for the 12 is labeled "Americas Highway Basemap", and the one
> for the 76 is labeled "Americas Recreational Basemap". So maybe that
> partly explains why there are fewer streets in the latter...(?)
You know, I just looked at that again and I think I pronounced those
base maps as being similar a little too quickly. I have never used a 12MAP.
The 12MAP base map had all the following things that are not listed for
the 76CSx base map:
- Small lakes, major streams, and rivers
- Railroads
- Many local roads in or near urban areas (this might be the biggie!)
- More detailed coastline
The 76CSx base map only has lakes greater than 5 square miles and
obviously fewer details. So I guess you *are* seeing fewer roads around
cities and less detail in general.
There were fewer MapSource mapping packages back then.= Only the World
Map and U.S. Topo packages are listed as accessory mapping you could buy
for the 12MAP. Of course the 12MAP only had a whopping 1.44MB of
storage space available so you could not put much in it. For example,
that would allow you to store about 1/10th of the topo mapping for
Maine. That's enough mapping to useful, even today, but we've all
become accustomed to more.
You can go online and look at the mapping that we all would typically
add to a 76CSx to get street level details. That is the City Navigator
NT V8 software, It covers the entire U.S. very well and does a fair to
good job on providing details for Mexico and Canada too. If you go here:
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/m...e/citynavnt.jsp
and use the MapSource Map Viewer you can zoom into an area you know and
see what you'll get. It will probably be at least as good as you 12MAP
was anywhere and much better almost everywhere.
City Navigator lists for $140, you can find it on the Internet and eBay
for around $100. Buy a 1 GB microSD card ($40 +/-) and you can have all
the mapping for North America with you all the time.
Of course, if you want topo mapping too or marine charts for a boat you
can add more software, bigger microSD cards, and have it all everywhere
you go.
The 60/76 "x" series models are really very good receivers, arguably the
best handhelds on the market today. And so versatile, they have more
and better navigation features than many of the automobile dash mount
models. You can do multiple destination autorouting on the base maps
roads for example. That will take you from and to most towns of any
can use it navigate all across North America. And it is rugged, very
portable, easy to power with either batteries or a cable.
If I were only going to own one GPS receiver it would one be the 76Cx or
CSx.
<snip>
> I have done this,
>
> And this as well, both as you say.
>
> But neither seem to have any noticeable effect in my location. So, I guess
> the difference has to be attributable to one of the other above causes.
> That's a bit disappointing because the old 12MAP basemap generally met my
> needs pretty well, even though it was pretty inaccurate. But I don't do
> much big city driving any more, so really never needed anything much
> better. But when I did, Street Atlas in the laptop always worked fine.
No, you were right from the beginning, you have lost some detail in the
change. But you've gained a great receiver, faster processor, unlimited
storage, and some other features.
And I think the 76CSx can take the place of the Street Atlas on a
laptop. The display is smaller but the 76CSx will make early warning
beeps and squawks, a larger turn arrow and directions will pop up, and
you'll quickly find it all happens with a minimum of distraction or fuss.
> I had been hoping to not have to learn any more new software, but it looks
> like I now have to get modern. Is City Navigator the recommended package
> for the 76? (I should have been paying closer attention to everyone's
> posts, but I wasn't expecting to go there...)
That is the one you'll probably want. It comes on a DVD and will
install the MapSource application on your PC and then the mapping data.
If you buy other mapping (topo, marine, etc.) they'll be "hosted by"
and seen from MapSource too. So you can do your planning on the PC with
full control of the routing, upload the route (and map if it is not
already there) and off you go.
But if you just have the GPS with you, you can always turn it on, let it
find a destination for you, and off you go again. And if you get off
track, it will recalculate the route quickly and keep you headed to the
original destination.
> Thank you also for these last two tips, Jack. I'm beginning to appreciate
> that I will need to do both. In spades! Especially if I have to put City
> Navigator in there...
>
Sounds like a good plan. And this newsgroup will always get you through
the tough spots.
Good luck with it!
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
| |
|
| David wrote:
> Yes, I am comparing the levels of detail on the basemaps that originally
> came with the units.
>
> It would seem that way wouldn't it? However, from your links, I note that
> the basemap for the 12 is labeled "Americas Highway Basemap", and the one
> for the 76 is labeled "Americas Recreational Basemap". So maybe that
> partly explains why there are fewer streets in the latter...(?)
The older basemap used in models like the 12Map, III+, eMap, GPS V,
etc. used 8 MB of memory in units without auto-routing and 13 MB in
units with the extra routing data. The newer basemap in your 76CSX
uses only 8 MB of memory including the auto-routing data and is
therefore about 35% less detailed than the previous maps.
Don't know why Garmin went to a less detailed basemap, but I tend to
agree with some previous comments that the level of detail in either
version of the basemap is really inadequate and you should get the
CityNavigator maps instead. Note that those use about 1500 MB of
memory instead of only the 8 MB in your basemap to get an idea of how
much more detailed they are. The basemaps are useful when you're
zoomed way out to get an overview of a large area, but you should have
the detailed maps loaded to make proper use of the capabilities of the
76CSx and similar GPS units.
>
> I was not aware of the Tele-Atlas vs. NavTeq change, so that may well also
> explain some of the difference.
The change from Tele-Atlas to NavTeq was for the MetroGuide optional
software and doesn't apply to either the old or new version of the
basemap.
> I had been hoping to not have to learn any more new software, but it looks
> like I now have to get modern. Is City Navigator the recommended package
> for the 76? (I should have been paying closer attention to everyone's
> posts, but I wasn't expecting to go there...)
Yes, CityNavigator is the recommended streetmapping package for the
76CSx. MetroGuide has the same map and POI detail but isn't designed
to support the auto-routing feature of the 76CSx and therefore isn't
listed as recommended by Garmin.
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-03-16, 10:33 am |
| David wrote:
<snip>
> I had been hoping to not have to learn any more new software, but it looks
> like I now have to get modern. Is City Navigator the recommended package
> for the 76? (I should have been paying closer attention to everyone's
> posts, but I wasn't expecting to go there...)
David,
Send me an email and tell me where you live and I'll email you a small
sample map of the area where you live and that will let you see the
difference you can get with additional mapping. The map will be from an
from an older version of the MetroGuide mapping that may be a little
outdated on some details but it will autoroute.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
| |
| Kent Friis 2007-03-16, 12:33 pm |
| Den Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:02:42 -0500 skrev Jack Erbes:
> David wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> David,
>
> Send me an email and tell me where you live and I'll email you a small
> sample map of the area where you live and that will let you see the
> difference you can get with additional mapping. The map will be from an
> from an older version of the MetroGuide mapping that may be a little
> outdated on some details but it will autoroute.
Garmin.com has a page where it is possible to see and scroll around the
entire City Navigator map.
(Sorry, don't have the link handy).
/Kent
--
"So there I was surrounded by all these scary creatures
They were even scarier than what Microsoft call features"
- C64Mafia: Forbidden Forest (Don't Go Walking Slow).
| |
| Steve Calvin 2007-03-16, 12:33 pm |
| Kent Friis wrote:
> Garmin.com has a page where it is possible to see and scroll around the
> entire City Navigator map.
>
> (Sorry, don't have the link handy).
>
> /Kent
It's somewhat painful to get to the area and zoom level that
you want but if you go to: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/
and under "MapSource Map Viewer" you select the map you're
interested in you can get an idea of the level of detail.
--
Steve
| |
|
| Thank you very much, Peter, for the insights -- I'm getting a much better
feeling now for the details of what has gone on. It is clear now that
there is a solution.
Thank you also, Jack, Kent, and Steve for the links, which have helped a
lot.
Best regards,
David
On 16 Mar 2007 00:09:56 -0700, "peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote:
>David wrote:
>
>
>The older basemap used in models like the 12Map, III+, eMap, GPS V,
>etc. used 8 MB of memory in units without auto-routing and 13 MB in
>units with the extra routing data. The newer basemap in your 76CSX
>uses only 8 MB of memory including the auto-routing data and is
>therefore about 35% less detailed than the previous maps.
>
>Don't know why Garmin went to a less detailed basemap, but I tend to
>agree with some previous comments that the level of detail in either
>version of the basemap is really inadequate and you should get the
>CityNavigator maps instead. Note that those use about 1500 MB of
>memory instead of only the 8 MB in your basemap to get an idea of how
>much more detailed they are. The basemaps are useful when you're
>zoomed way out to get an overview of a large area, but you should have
>the detailed maps loaded to make proper use of the capabilities of the
>76CSx and similar GPS units.
>
>
>The change from Tele-Atlas to NavTeq was for the MetroGuide optional
>software and doesn't apply to either the old or new version of the
>basemap.
>
>
>Yes, CityNavigator is the recommended streetmapping package for the
>76CSx. MetroGuide has the same map and POI detail but isn't designed
>to support the auto-routing feature of the 76CSx and therefore isn't
>listed as recommended by Garmin.
| |
| David 2007-03-18, 10:33 am |
| On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:02:42 -0500, Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>David wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>David,
>
>Send me an email and tell me where you live and I'll email you a small
>sample map of the area where you live and that will let you see the
>difference you can get with additional mapping. The map will be from an
>from an older version of the MetroGuide mapping that may be a little
>outdated on some details but it will autoroute.
>
>Jack
And thank you, Jack, for the sample map. Unfortunately, I am still having
cockpit problems. You have said, (greatly abbreviated), that I need to go
into "Mass Storage Mode", which appears to be where I am stuck.
Please let me explain what I have done, and then maybe some clues will jump
out, to people smarter than me...
Following Garmin's instructions, I installed the Trip and Waypoint Manager
CD, which included the USB drivers. Then I plugged in the 76CSx into a USB
port. I got the "new hardware found" notice, and directed it to the
drivers. I got a little icon in the lower right (XP Windows) tray, saying
that it was there and working. But then the little icon went away. (Why,
I don't know(?))
But anyway, I went to page 68 in the 76 manual, to "Activate USB Mass
Storage"; where Point 2 says, "Highlight the on-screen USB Mass Storage
button and press Enter".
However, I can find no "on-screen USB Mass Storage button", either on the
76 screen or on the XP Windows screen!
Can you, Jack, or someone, please tell me what I am doing wrong?
Thank you very much,
David
| |
| Jack Erbes 2007-03-18, 12:33 pm |
| David wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:02:42 -0500, Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> And thank you, Jack, for the sample map. Unfortunately, I am still having
> cockpit problems. You have said, (greatly abbreviated), that I need to go
> into "Mass Storage Mode", which appears to be where I am stuck.
>
> Please let me explain what I have done, and then maybe some clues will jump
> out, to people smarter than me...
>
> Following Garmin's instructions, I installed the Trip and Waypoint Manager
> CD, which included the USB drivers. Then I plugged in the 76CSx into a USB
> port. I got the "new hardware found" notice, and directed it to the
> drivers. I got a little icon in the lower right (XP Windows) tray, saying
> that it was there and working. But then the little icon went away. (Why,
> I don't know(?))
>
> But anyway, I went to page 68 in the 76 manual, to "Activate USB Mass
> Storage"; where Point 2 says, "Highlight the on-screen USB Mass Storage
> button and press Enter".
>
> However, I can find no "on-screen USB Mass Storage button", either on the
> 76 screen or on the XP Windows screen!
>
> Can you, Jack, or someone, please tell me what I am doing wrong?
>
> Thank you very much,
> David
>
Hi David,
It looks like you need to update your unit software. I'm sending you an
email about that.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
| |
|
|
| John William 2007-03-23, 10:33 am |
| David wrote:
> Well, I have received my 76CSx, and it appears that it will be a fine
> instrument, as several of you have already assured me.
I think the GPS is one half of the price and the software the other half.
| |
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