Garmin GPS - Routing problem?

Author

Routing problem?

Earl J

2007-08-18, 10:33 pm

I have a 60CSx with City Navigator NT 2008 North America. I can't get it to
create a route using a ferry unless it's an island and a ferry is the only
way. It will take me 100 miles and two hours out of the way rather than go
on a 30 minute ferry ride. My old Metroguide selects the route using the
ferry. Is there some setting I am missing? I have tried fastest and shortest
routes. Thanks!

Edwin Pawlowski

2007-08-18, 10:33 pm

"Earl J" <mrekj@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:JfOdne0- ROq6DVrbnZ2dnUVZ_rCt
nZ2d@comcast.com...
>I have a 60CSx with City Navigator NT 2008 North America. I can't get it to
>create a route using a ferry unless it's an island and a ferry is the only
>way. It will take me 100 miles and two hours out of the way rather than go
>on a 30 minute ferry ride. My old Metroguide selects the route using the
>ferry. Is there some setting I am missing? I have tried fastest and
>shortest routes. Thanks!

Interesting. I tried to create a route that did not use the ferry and could
not do it.

Worst case scenario is to put the ferry location in as a destination, then
make a second route on the other side.

Jack Erbes

2007-08-20, 3:42 pm

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Earl J" <mrekj@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:JfOdne0- ROq6DVrbnZ2dnUVZ_rCt
nZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Interesting. I tried to create a route that did not use the ferry and could
> not do it.
>
> Worst case scenario is to put the ferry location in as a destination, then
> make a second route on the other side.

If you're working out the route in MapSource, try placing waypoints at
the start, finish, and on the route you want it to take instead of the
ferry. Then click those three waypoints with the Route Tool to build a
route. If the route is not right yet, place more waypoints and add
those to the route too until you get what you want.

The joy of the older automobile units and the newer "x" series handhelds
is that you can always for the routing to go the way you want. It takes
a little more effort but you can prevail.

As for the route that refuses to take the ferry, I don't know of a way
to force that but I would use two more routes. One to the first ferry
terminal, then another from the arrival ferry terminal on to a
destination.

Jack

Earl J

2007-08-21, 12:33 pm

Thanks for the responses. From the responses to this and the 60CSx "routing
differences" above it seems that when Garmin says you can download routes to
your GPS from your computer, that's not entirely correct? You actually
download waypoints of the route and then it is recalculated by the GPS from
your current location. My question now then is why my GPS correctly
recalculates the map when I am using old Metroguide map and does not when
I'm using the new 2008 City Navigator NT? Any thoughts?
"Jack Erbes" <jacker@midmaine.com> wrote in message
news:46c9df2f$0$1883
1$4c368faf@roadrunne
r.com...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> If you're working out the route in MapSource, try placing waypoints at the
> start, finish, and on the route you want it to take instead of the ferry.
> Then click those three waypoints with the Route Tool to build a route. If
> the route is not right yet, place more waypoints and add those to the
> route too until you get what you want.
>
> The joy of the older automobile units and the newer "x" series handhelds
> is that you can always for the routing to go the way you want. It takes a
> little more effort but you can prevail.
>
> As for the route that refuses to take the ferry, I don't know of a way to
> force that but I would use two more routes. One to the first ferry
> terminal, then another from the arrival ferry terminal on to a
> destination.
>
> Jack
>
>

Jack Erbes

2007-08-21, 10:33 pm

Earl J wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. From the responses to this and the 60CSx
> "routing differences" above it seems that when Garmin says you can
> download routes to your GPS from your computer, that's not entirely
> correct?

In the classic sense and usage of the terms "route" and "waypoint", as
they have been used in navigation for many years, a route is a
collection of waypoints that define a route of travel. The process of
routing and autorouting via road vectors (for Follow Road routes) has
embellished the process and changed it somewhat.

> You actually download waypoints of the route and then it is
> recalculated by the GPS from your current location.

Exactly right, the route is a collection of points (waypoints, map
points, via points, etc.) nothing more. And since there is no guarantee
that the exact same data (map points and road vectors) are going to be
found and used on the GPS as were used under MapSource on the PC, the
route the GPS comes up with can be different.

Another complication or factor is the Preferences set in MapSource and
all the options and settings on the GPS receiver. Those too can cause
routes to differ from the GPS to MapSource.

> My question now then
> is why my GPS correctly recalculates the map when I am using old
> Metroguide map and does not when I'm using the new 2008 City Navigator
> NT? Any thoughts?

The older version of MetroGuide may have some differences in the data
that causes an interplay with the routing algorithm in the GPS that
produces what you want to see or prefer to see. This can get pretty
complicated I think. For example, CN and MG may not have the same
vectors available to choose from for calculating the route. Or CN may
have some attributes assigned to the road vectors and ferry route that
are different than the attributes that were assigned in MG.

My thoughts? Garmin mapping is fully immersed in bizarre and
unpredictable behaviors in many areas. Taking ferrys is one of the more
bizarre areas. You've opened a real Pandora's box here.

I just looked at CN V8 and MG 3.02 to see how those handle routing from
Bar Harbor, Maine to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. There is a ferry that runs
direct from Bar Harbor to Yarmouth. If I make a route with Bar Harbor
as the start and Yarmouth as the finish, CN V8 has me drive by road all
the way up to Saint John, New Brunswick and then take the Saint
John-Digby, Nova Scotia ferry over to Nova Scotia and then finish the
route to Yarmouth by road. Very dumb routing!

If I change to MetroGuide 3.02 and recalculate the routes, it gives me
an Off Road (point to point) route and does not use any roads at all.
But that is probably because that version of MetroGuide does not include
any data for Canada (although the southwestern end of Nova Scotia and
Yarmouth are seen in the mapping and can be selected as destinations).

If I drop down the coast of Maine to places where I know there are ferry
runs (Rockland to North Haven Is. and Rockland to Matinicus Is. for
example) the behavior of MG 3.02 continues to be bizarre and and pretty
much useless. It is about 12 miles across the water from Rockland to
North Haven but MG 3.02 has me drive up the coast about 20 miles, then
come back down to Rockland and board the ferry to North Haven.

If I change to CN V8 and recalculate the route, it follows the road
vectors across Rockland to the ferry terminal and simply takes the ferry
to North Haven. Good job by CN V8!

So it looks to me like if you know the ferry routes and how best to use
them, you can keep the Garmin mapping honest as far as getting places
efficiently. If you are stranger to the whole thing, and simply follow
the directions given by the GPS, you may be in trouble.

Jack

Earl J

2007-08-23, 12:33 pm

I heard back from Garmin Customer Support today.He was able to duplicate the
problem I am having in the Puget Sound area with with routes that use a
ferry. He has reported the problem and hopes it will be fixed in an update.
He suggested I make a waypoint along the ferry route, include it in the
route and see if that would work. I tried that and it then took me on the
ferry but wanted the ferry to turn around at the waypoint go back and use
the land route. I did find however, that if I don't include the town the
ferry leaves from on the route and go directly to the waypoint on the ferry
route it does then continue on to my destination at least on the two routes
I have tried so far.
"Jack Erbes" <jacker@midmaine.com> wrote in message
news:46cb8612$0$6445
$4c368faf@roadrunner
.com...
> Earl J wrote:
>
> In the classic sense and usage of the terms "route" and "waypoint", as
> they have been used in navigation for many years, a route is a collection
> of waypoints that define a route of travel. The process of routing and
> autorouting via road vectors (for Follow Road routes) has embellished the
> process and changed it somewhat.
>
>
> Exactly right, the route is a collection of points (waypoints, map points,
> via points, etc.) nothing more. And since there is no guarantee that the
> exact same data (map points and road vectors) are going to be found and
> used on the GPS as were used under MapSource on the PC, the route the GPS
> comes up with can be different.
>
> Another complication or factor is the Preferences set in MapSource and all
> the options and settings on the GPS receiver. Those too can cause routes
> to differ from the GPS to MapSource.
>
>
> The older version of MetroGuide may have some differences in the data that
> causes an interplay with the routing algorithm in the GPS that produces
> what you want to see or prefer to see. This can get pretty complicated I
> think. For example, CN and MG may not have the same vectors available to
> choose from for calculating the route. Or CN may have some attributes
> assigned to the road vectors and ferry route that are different than the
> attributes that were assigned in MG.
>
> My thoughts? Garmin mapping is fully immersed in bizarre and
> unpredictable behaviors in many areas. Taking ferrys is one of the more
> bizarre areas. You've opened a real Pandora's box here.
>
> I just looked at CN V8 and MG 3.02 to see how those handle routing from
> Bar Harbor, Maine to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. There is a ferry that runs
> direct from Bar Harbor to Yarmouth. If I make a route with Bar Harbor as
> the start and Yarmouth as the finish, CN V8 has me drive by road all the
> way up to Saint John, New Brunswick and then take the Saint John-Digby,
> Nova Scotia ferry over to Nova Scotia and then finish the route to
> Yarmouth by road. Very dumb routing!
>
> If I change to MetroGuide 3.02 and recalculate the routes, it gives me an
> Off Road (point to point) route and does not use any roads at all. But
> that is probably because that version of MetroGuide does not include any
> data for Canada (although the southwestern end of Nova Scotia and Yarmouth
> are seen in the mapping and can be selected as destinations).
>
> If I drop down the coast of Maine to places where I know there are ferry
> runs (Rockland to North Haven Is. and Rockland to Matinicus Is. for
> example) the behavior of MG 3.02 continues to be bizarre and and pretty
> much useless. It is about 12 miles across the water from Rockland to
> North Haven but MG 3.02 has me drive up the coast about 20 miles, then
> come back down to Rockland and board the ferry to North Haven.
>
> If I change to CN V8 and recalculate the route, it follows the road
> vectors across Rockland to the ferry terminal and simply takes the ferry
> to North Haven. Good job by CN V8!
>
> So it looks to me like if you know the ferry routes and how best to use
> them, you can keep the Garmin mapping honest as far as getting places
> efficiently. If you are stranger to the whole thing, and simply follow
> the directions given by the GPS, you may be in trouble.
>
> Jack

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