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Cellular forums Home > Archive > Garmin GPS > January 2008 > Air travel with a GPS?
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| Author |
Air travel with a GPS?
|
|
| Alan Biddle 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| Hi,
I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount. My impression was that they
are permitted, judging by the discussions of their use in the cabin,
but I was wondering if there is a definitive source on this? I would
not want my toy to be confiscated.
--
Alan
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| In news:k9i2o3l1onfdk8f
2fa5aiibnvi102ur6n4@
4ax.com Alan Biddle
<ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
> trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
> TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
> paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount.
It's not mentioned because they don't care.
A GPSR is treated no differently from any other piece of common
electronic equipment you might carry with you.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
| |
| Edwin Pawlowski 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
|
"Bert Hyman" <bert@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1DA049FB6E
VeebleFetzer@216.250.184.7...
> In news:k9i2o3l1onfdk8f
2fa5aiibnvi102ur6n4@
4ax.com Alan Biddle
> <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>
> It's not mentioned because they don't care.
>
They may care when he starts to drill holes for the mount though.
| |
| greatviewcsc@hotmail.com 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:38:01 GMT, Alan Biddle <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM>
wrote:
Be sure to get window seat, hold the unit near the window and it
should work! I've done this many times. You know where your are and
what altitude and how fast! Nobody has ever asked me to turn it off
>Hi,
>
>I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
>trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
>TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
>paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount. My impression was that they
>are permitted, judging by the discussions of their use in the cabin,
>but I was wondering if there is a definitive source on this? I would
>not want my toy to be confiscated.
| |
| Alan Biddle 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| >>They may care when he starts to drill holes for the mount though
That's why I use a beanbag mount. No holes. :)
--
Alan
| |
| Alan Biddle 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| Bert,
Thanks. I haven't had any recent experience with TSA, and Just wanted
to make certain there isn't some recent interest.
--
Alan
| |
| Ness-Net 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| This has been discussed many time here or over at sci.geo.satellite-nav.
Bottom line is it is up to the individual airline. Find one of the previous
threads and you will surely find a link to a site that documents this info.
Or, maybe someone will post it again...?
"Alan Biddle" <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
news:k9i2o3l1onfdk8f
2fa5aiibnvi102ur6n4@
4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
> trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
> TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
> paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount. My impression was that they
> are permitted, judging by the discussions of their use in the cabin,
> but I was wondering if there is a definitive source on this? I would
> not want my toy to be confiscated.
>
>
> --
> Alan
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| In news:eJSdnWppPJAUyBz
anZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@gi
ganews.com "Ness-Net"
<no.richard@damnspam.nessnet.com> wrote:
> This has been discussed many time here or over at
> sci.geo.satellite-nav.
>
> Bottom line is it is up to the individual airline. Find one of the
> previous threads and you will surely find a link to a site that
> documents this info.
Using one onboard is up to the airline (and the pilot); carrying one
on to the plane is an issue for the TSA.
Remember:
To ensure traveler's security, transportation security
officers (TSOs) may determine that an item not on the
prohibited items chart is prohibited. In addition, the TSO
may also determine that an item on the permitted chart is
dangerous and therefore may not be brought through the
security checkpoint.
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/ Proh...dly_3-16-07.pdf
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
| |
| James Robinson 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| Alan Biddle <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
> trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
> TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
> paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount. My impression was that they
> are permitted, judging by the discussions of their use in the cabin,
> but I was wondering if there is a definitive source on this? I would
> not want my toy to be confiscated.
You can carry it aboard in your hand baggage, or check it. TSA is now
asking that all larger electronic equipment be pulled from your bag and
passed through the scanner separately. So not only do you have to take
your laptop out of your bag, you now have to take out video cameras. A GPS
might get by, but plan on taking it out too.
As far as using it in flight, the FAA leaves it up to individual airlines.
Some will allow you to use it, and others won't. The details are in each
airline's onboard magazine, or you can sometimes find it on their web
sites.
| |
| Intentionally Left Blank 2008-01-06, 10:33 pm |
| A GPS is, by definition, a radio receiver. It is
normally not permitted to use a radio receiver on
an airplane, just as you must turn off your pocket
pager, blackberry, cell phone, and you should also
disable the wireless NIC card in your laptop. Airlines
say it can interfere with their navigation. I think it's
a load of crap, but that's what they will tell you. I
would not want any blame for a crash caused by my
personal entertainment source!
Receivers such as GPSs are not in the same class as
other personal entertainment devices like CD and MP3
players. Personally, I use a PocketPC as an MP3 player
and gaming device on long flights.
Receivers do have little tiny oscillators inside
them that can act as micro transmitters, and it's
possible for the signal output of a malfunctioning
receiver to be strong enough to interfere with other
radios if they're sufficiently close enough. If a
receiver is defective, it -could- generate a fairly
strong enough signal that a pilot might see it interfere
with his nav system and the owner of the radio would
not realize he was the culprit causing the problem.
It is, however, up to the individual airline, and to
be more precise, the pilot and crew that day on that
flight, as to whether or not you may use your GPS on
board the plane.
In article < Xns9A1DB47555E6Awasc
ana212com@66.250.146.128>, wascana@
212.com says...
> Alan Biddle <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>
> You can carry it aboard in your hand baggage, or check it. TSA is now
> asking that all larger electronic equipment be pulled from your bag and
> passed through the scanner separately. So not only do you have to take
> your laptop out of your bag, you now have to take out video cameras. A GPS
> might get by, but plan on taking it out too.
>
> As far as using it in flight, the FAA leaves it up to individual airlines.
> Some will allow you to use it, and others won't. The details are in each
> airline's onboard magazine, or you can sometimes find it on their web
> sites.
>
| |
| writer 2008-01-07, 3:33 pm |
| I've used my GPSs on commercial airlines for years now. I've never had any
trouble doing so. I found that I needed to have a window seat and sometimes
I had to hold the unit to the window so that it could see the satellites.
It is a lot of fun. My favorite setting was 30 miles zoom which allowed me
to pick out landmarks that I could see from the air.
Gary Hayman
Have You Checked Garmin Tricks?
http://snipurl.com/garmin_gps_tricks
"Alan Biddle" <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
news:k9i2o3l1onfdk8f
2fa5aiibnvi102ur6n4@
4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was going to take my Garmin GPS and mount with me on a domestic US
> trip via airline for use on the other end. However, in checking the
> TSA web site, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about tooth
> paste and PDAs, but not a GPS and mount. My impression was that they
> are permitted, judging by the discussions of their use in the cabin,
> but I was wondering if there is a definitive source on this? I would
> not want my toy to be confiscated.
>
>
> --
> Alan
| |
| Michael Barrett 2008-01-07, 10:33 pm |
| "Alan Biddle" <ALANBIDDLE70@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
news:u7k2o3tgldns1ql
1f1gsnathudhg5tlbev@
4ax.com...
> Bert,
>
> Thanks. I haven't had any recent experience with TSA, and Just wanted
> to make certain there isn't some recent interest.
>
As long as you are just dealing with TSA, you should be fine. Be aware that
some countries (Cuba for one) do not allow GPS units into the country. If
you are travelling abroad it would be wise to check before losing your unit.
--
Commander Bob
| |
|
| On Jan 6, 4:14 pm, Intentionally Left Blank
<NoAddr...@SpamNotWanted.com> wrote:
> A GPS is, by definition, a radio receiver. It is
> normally not permitted to use a radio receiver on
> an airplane, just as you must turn off your pocket
> pager, blackberry, cell phone, and you should also
> disable the wireless NIC card in your laptop.
Actually, most airlines permit passenger use of GPS receivers under
the same rules as other personal electronics but there are some
exceptions. A fairly current list of airlines and their GPS policies
is at:
http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm
Also note that unlike GPS *receivers* the items you mention
(Blackberry, cellular phones, NIC cards, and two-way pagers (airlines
usually allow receive-only pagers)) are intentional *transmitters* in
addition to receivers and have much stronger emissions.
> Airlines
> say it can interfere with their navigation.
Only true for a minority of airlines as listed above.
> I think it's
> a load of crap, but that's what they will tell you. I
> would not want any blame for a crash caused by my
> personal entertainment source!
Agreed, but again, only some airlines will tell you that.
>
> Receivers such as GPSs are not in the same class as
> other personal entertainment devices like CD and MP3
> players. Personally, I use a PocketPC as an MP3 player
> and gaming device on long flights.
Actually they are essentially in the same class as those other
devices. They're certified to meet FCC 'Class B' rules for consumer
electronics with regard to electromagnetic emissions which is also the
certification used for most CD & MP3 players, PDAs, laptops, etc.
>
> Receivers do have little tiny oscillators inside
> them that can act as micro transmitters, and it's
> possible for the signal output of a malfunctioning
> receiver to be strong enough to interfere with other
> radios if they're sufficiently close enough.
Technically true, but also true of most other consumer electronics.
If I put my radio up close to my laptop I can easily pick out bands
where the laptop puts out interference. Fortunately the plane's radio
antennas are designed to pick up signals from outside the plane and
they're not within a few inches of either my laptop or my GPS
receiver. As a further precaution, most passenger electronics (incl.
GPS, laptops, PDAs, laptops, games, etc.) are required to be turned
off when the aircraft is below 10 kft since if there is any
interference it would be most hazardous during the take-off and
landing portions of the flight.
> If a
> receiver is defective, it -could- generate a fairly
> strong enough signal that a pilot might see it interfere
> with his nav system and the owner of the radio would
> not realize he was the culprit causing the problem.
And your laptop, PDA, MP3 player or other electronic device could also
cause problems if it's defective. In fact there have been several
instances where such problems have been reported which were
tentatively identified as coming from specific passenger's electronic
games and laptops. AFAIK, no such problem on a commercial flight has
ever been associated with a passenger's GPS receiver.
| |
| Paul Johnson 2008-01-09, 10:33 pm |
| On Jan 6, 1:51 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> They may care when he starts to drill holes for the mount though.
Most consumer navigation GPS units these days use suction cup window
mounts, though...
| |
| Paul Johnson 2008-01-09, 10:33 pm |
| Top posting is considered harmful.
http://learn.to/quote
On Jan 6, 4:14 pm, Intentionally Left Blank
<NoAddr...@SpamNotWanted.com> wrote:
> A GPS is, by definition, a radio receiver. It is
> normally not permitted to use a radio receiver on
> an airplane, just as you must turn off your pocket
> pager, blackberry, cell phone, and you should also
> disable the wireless NIC card in your laptop.
You've got it backwards. GPS is a receiver, but you're not allowed to
use transmitters on airplanes. Nobody gives a rat's XXX if you're
listening to a Walkman on a plane, but you will generally take grief
for whipping out a Mr. Microphone.
> Airlines
> say it can interfere with their navigation. I think it's
> a load of crap, but that's what they will tell you. I
> would not want any blame for a crash caused by my
> personal entertainment source!
It's not a load of crap, when you're calibrating equipment for the
next run, you generally need things to be as interference free as
practical.
> Receivers do have little tiny oscillators inside
> them that can act as micro transmitters,
As does nearly every electronic device in common existence, right down
to digital watches.
> and it's
> possible for the signal output of a malfunctioning
> receiver to be strong enough to interfere with other
> radios if they're sufficiently close enough. If a
> receiver is defective, it -could- generate a fairly
> strong enough signal that a pilot might see it interfere
> with his nav system and the owner of the radio would
> not realize he was the culprit causing the problem.
The odds of that happening on a receiver are probably an order of
magnitude lower than the device catching fire under normal operating
conditions.
> It is, however, up to the individual airline, and to
> be more precise, the pilot and crew that day on that
> flight, as to whether or not you may use your GPS on
> board the plane.
And hopefully the plane's crew knows something about basic electronics
instead of just enough to be a nuisance (like people who confuse
transmitters and receivers).
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 10:34 am |
| baloo@ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) wrote in
news:a89136c8-86af-4cb3-8370- 4b269335e6a3@e6g2000
prf.googlegroups.com:
> You've got it backwards. GPS is a receiver, but you're not allowed
> to use transmitters on airplanes.
Many airlines don't allow passengers to use receivers either. Unless
you're using a crystal set, your radio likely emits low level RF.
http://www.nwa.com/travel/luggage/specialitems.html
Electronic devices that cannot be used on the airplane at any
time:
# Cellular phones
# AM/FM transmitters-receivers
# Televisions
# Remote-controlled toys
# Personal Air Purifier
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
| |
|
| On Jan 6, 3:33 pm, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> Using one onboard is up to the airline (and the pilot); carrying one
> on to the plane is an issue for the TSA.
True, but by far the majority of people here who routinely carry a GPS
receiver on flights have reported no problems with being hassled by
TSA about carrying a GPS. It is very unusual for the screeners to say
anything about it. The only cases I recall where anyone was bothered
about it, the security people were satisfied with having it
demonstrated that it could be turned on. As a rule, screeners don't
seem to care any more about GPS than they do about other electronics.
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 10:34 am |
| roybassist@yahoo.com (Roy) wrote in
news:f87a3b2e-931c-4737-91d0- b9750e5f3f21@k2g2000
hse.googlegroups.com:
> On Jan 6, 3:33 pm, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
> True, but by far the majority of people here who routinely carry a
> GPS receiver on flights have reported no problems with being hassled
> by TSA about carrying a GPS. It is very unusual for the screeners
> to say anything about it. The only cases I recall where anyone was
> bothered about it, the security people were satisfied with having it
> demonstrated that it could be turned on. As a rule, screeners don't
> seem to care any more about GPS than they do about other
> electronics.
The only time I've ever been asked about my 76CSx in my carry-on was
because the Garmin beanbag mount apparently looked very peculiar on
the X-Ray. Still, after the operator stared at the image for a few
seconds, he asked "is that a GPS receiver?" and was satisfied with my
"yes" answer.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
| |
| No User 2008-01-10, 12:33 pm |
| So is living in the land of freeze and squeeze.
In article <a89136c8-86af-4cb3-8370-4b269335e6a3
@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, baloo@ursine.ca says...
> Top posting is considered harmful.
> http://learn.to/quote
| |
|
|
> Electronic devices that cannot be used on the airplane at any
> time:
>
> # Cellular phones
> # AM/FM transmitters-receivers
> # Televisions
> # Remote-controlled toys
> # Personal Air Purifier
>
> --
> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
Then a Nüvi660 is OK .........but not a Nüvi660FM.
Per Andersen.
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 12:33 pm |
| per-a@tdcadsl.dk (Per) wrote in
news:4786589a$0$2091
$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk:
>
>
> Then a Nuvi660 is OK .........but not a Nuvi660FM.
Why? Doesn't the Nuvi have a GPS receiver in it? How's it work
otherwise?
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
| |
|
| Hi Bert.
A Nüvi 660FM has a transmitter transmitting on the FM broadcast band 87,5 to
108 Mhz (or more ?)
The Nüvi 660 does'nt.
Per A.
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 3:33 pm |
| per-a@tdcadsl.dk (Per) wrote in
news:47866756$0$2099
$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk:
> Hi Bert.
>
> A Nüvi 660FM has a transmitter transmitting on the FM broadcast band
> 87,5 to 108 Mhz (or more ?)
>
> The Nüvi 660 does'nt.
But they both have radio receivers, hence not allowed by NWA.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 3:33 pm |
| bert@iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) wrote in
news:Xns9A2182AB330A
3VeebleFetzer@127.0.0.1:
> per-a@tdcadsl.dk (Per) wrote in
> news:47866756$0$2099
$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk:
>
>
> But they both have radio receivers, hence not allowed by NWA.
Looks like I'm probably wrong, if this info is correct:
http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm
The Airlines which OFFICIALLY APPROVE the use of GPS receivers during
CRUISE:
NorthWest Airlines (Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5)
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
| |
|
| We talked about this subject:
Electronic devices that cannot be used on the airplane at[color=darkred]
Per A.
| |
|
| Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
> baloo@ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) wrote in
> news:a89136c8-86af-4cb3-8370- 4b269335e6a3@e6g2000
prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> Many airlines don't allow passengers to use receivers either. Unless
> you're using a crystal set, your radio likely emits low level RF.
>
> http://www.nwa.com/travel/luggage/specialitems.html
>
> Electronic devices that cannot be used on the airplane at any
> time:
>
> # Cellular phones
> # AM/FM transmitters-receivers
> # Televisions
> # Remote-controlled toys
> # Personal Air Purifier
It's always true whatever the Airline rules may be ... I hate it so I
haven't traveled by air since 911. And last time I read they don't even
allow WATER <bg>
| |
|
| Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
> roybassist@yahoo.com (Roy) wrote in
> news:f87a3b2e-931c-4737-91d0- b9750e5f3f21@k2g2000
hse.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> The only time I've ever been asked about my 76CSx in my carry-on was
> because the Garmin beanbag mount apparently looked very peculiar on
> the X-Ray. Still, after the operator stared at the image for a few
> seconds, he asked "is that a GPS receiver?" and was satisfied with my
> "yes" answer.
They probably ask not because of the frequency but TERROIST. And you may
wanna try some SOAP which may look more like TNT <bg>
| |
|
| Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
> bert@iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) wrote in
> news:Xns9A2182AB330A
3VeebleFetzer@127.0.0.1:
>
>
> Looks like I'm probably wrong, if this info is correct:
>
> http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm
>
> The Airlines which OFFICIALLY APPROVE the use of GPS receivers during
> CRUISE:
>
> NorthWest Airlines (Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5)
Or if you look at web site like Garmin and other GPS companies you may
find they sell GPS for airplane use, and boat too.
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-10, 10:33 pm |
| In news:m58do3pu5n6ki8c
jm0c8nctusqvbm0r9sf@
4ax.com Joel
<Joel@NoSpam.plz> wrote:
> Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>
>Or if you look at web site like Garmin and other GPS companies
>you may find they sell GPS for airplane use, and boat too.
If it's used in a commercial aircraft, it has to be approved for
use in an aircraft. The airlines are understandably wary about allowing
any random piece of equipment to be operated inside their aircraft while
in flight.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
| |
|
| Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
> In news:m58do3pu5n6ki8c
jm0c8nctusqvbm0r9sf@
4ax.com Joel
> <Joel@NoSpam.plz> wrote:
>
>
> If it's used in a commercial aircraft, it has to be approved for
> use in an aircraft. The airlines are understandably wary about allowing
> any random piece of equipment to be operated inside their aircraft while
> in flight.
Yes, I do understand GPS for aircraft usually designed specific for
aircraft, but what I am trying to say that it doesn't mean that regular GPS
will cause problem to any aircraft.
Or terror may not carry explosion in liquid form, or they will use
nail-clipper to hi-jack air-plane etc..
| |
| Bert Hyman 2008-01-12, 12:33 pm |
| In news:m4oho31iol7k0gg
7t91rdgnjc30s2j3q8h@
4ax.com Joel
<Joel@NoSpam.plz> wrote:
> Yes, I do understand GPS for aircraft usually designed specific for
> aircraft, but what I am trying to say that it doesn't mean that
> regular GPS will cause problem to any aircraft.
>
And it doesn't mean that it won't. Individual airlines make their own
decisions as to what they allow to be used on their planes; some allow
GPS receivers, some don't.
The Web page which showed that NWA officially allows GPS receivers
(although an individual pilot might tell you you couldn't) also lists
airlines which officially don't.
http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm
"Airlines which OFFICIALLY DO NOT APPROVE the use of GPS receivers at
ANY time during flight. "
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
| |
| Gerard M Foley 2008-01-21, 10:33 pm |
| "Paul Johnson" <baloo@ursine.ca> wrote in message
news:a89136c8-86af-4cb3-8370- 4b269335e6a3@e6g2000
prf.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> You've got it backwards. GPS is a receiver, but you're not allowed to
> use transmitters on airplanes. Nobody gives a rat's XXX if you're
> listening to a Walkman on a plane
<snip>
>
> As does nearly every electronic device in common existence, right down
> to digital watches.
>
The intermediate frequency of many FM receivers is 10,7 MHz, and the local
oscillator is usually placed on the high side of the received frequency.
The local oscillator can be fairly powerful. The major VHF aircraft
navigatiion and communication band extands upward from 116 MHz. Thus most
FM receivers tuned to any frequency above 105.3 MHz will radiate signals
from their local oscillators in the aircraft band. capable of interfering
with aircraft radio navigation and communication.
This is not true of GPS receivers.
--
Gerry K8EF
gerryf.gerard@gmail,com
http://www.pbase.com/gfoley9999/
http://www.wilowud.net/
http://www.fortunecity.com/victoria...gypt/egypt.html
http://www.geocities.com/gerryf.geo/
| |
|
| But some GPS (some of the Nüvi 660's ) has a real FM transmitter, are able
to transmit in the FM broadcast band, (and a little outside the band ??).
This low power transmitter is transferring MP3 music to the FM broadcast
radio on a selectable channel..
In some countries is this option not allowed !
.......... Per A.
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