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Cellular forums Home > Archive > Cell Phones in Great Britain > October 2005 > Can I do this on Orange..?
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Can I do this on Orange..?
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| Ivor Jones 2005-10-20, 11:48 pm |
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Right, the charging for 0800 numbers fiasco has done it for me, I want to
terminate my Orange contract. I've only really been hanging onto it for
that and Line 2, which I can live without if I have to.
Now I already have a PAYG SIM card in addition to the contract SIM, which
I want to hang onto as it has the original Out Here pack with the 5
messages a day for life on it.
So what I want to do, if it's possible, is transfer my main Line 1
contract number to my existing PAYG SIM, retaining the O/H pack. I'm not
bothered about losing the existing number on that SIM. I don't care about
losing the Line 2 number either, it's only used so work can ring me and I
can easily give them another number.
Can this be done..? If so, what's the easiest way of explaining it in
words the average Orange tubby will understand..?!
Porting the number to another network isn't an option as the whole point
is to retain the Out Here pack.
Ivor
| |
|
|
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3rqnc7Fl0645U1@
individual.net...
>
> Right, the charging for 0800 numbers fiasco has done it for me, I want to
> terminate my Orange contract. I've only really been hanging onto it for
> that and Line 2, which I can live without if I have to.
>
> Now I already have a PAYG SIM card in addition to the contract SIM, which
> I want to hang onto as it has the original Out Here pack with the 5
> messages a day for life on it.
>
> So what I want to do, if it's possible, is transfer my main Line 1
> contract number to my existing PAYG SIM, retaining the O/H pack. I'm not
> bothered about losing the existing number on that SIM. I don't care about
> losing the Line 2 number either, it's only used so work can ring me and I
> can easily give them another number.
>
> Can this be done..? If so, what's the easiest way of explaining it in
> words the average Orange tubby will understand..?!
>
> Porting the number to another network isn't an option as the whole point
> is to retain the Out Here pack.
>
>
> Ivor
>
>
The easiest way is to phone Orange and ask. Don't waffle on with some long
winded story and try moaning about your 0800 problem, just say what you want
and confine the conversation to that alone. Make yourself clear enough and
people will be able to understand you. The problem you might experience in
life with you thinking people don't understand you is that you can't or
haven't expressed yourself clearly. I doubt you will get anyone on here
that will post a message on behalf of Orange.
Do let us all know what orange say.
You can find some other offers about. If you're unhappy with Orange, just
leave.
| |
|
|
DC1 wrote:
> The easiest way is to phone Orange and ask. Don't waffle on with some long
> winded story and try moaning about your 0800 problem, just say what you want
> and confine the conversation to that alone. Make yourself clear enough and
> people will be able to understand you. The problem you might experience in
> life with you thinking people don't understand you is that you can't or
> haven't expressed yourself clearly. I doubt you will get anyone on here
> that will post a message on behalf of Orange.
> Do let us all know what orange say.
> You can find some other offers about. If you're unhappy with Orange, just
> leave.
Unless things have changed a lot recently, I just don't think it'll
happen - and if Orange attempt to move the number, there is a great
chance that the O/H pack will disappear (sod's law).
There is a guaranteed method, of doing it yourself - get a PAC for the
existing contract (you might get some goodwill for a month or so in the
meantime if you tell them why you want it) and then port out to another
network PAYG temporarily. Then get a PAC from that network, and use it
to port in to the Orange PAYG. This is 'allowed' and should be
perfectly safe in terms of the rest of the PAYG account staying the
same, just the number will change.
As far as I know, when they move numbers from Contract to PAYG
internally, they have to do it to a new, clean PAYG account - so they
could do that, but then they'd refuse to transfer your O/H to it - as
you know, it's 'not transferable'.
Tariq
| |
|
| ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
> Right, the charging for 0800 numbers fiasco
Fiasco? It's hardly a fiasco. Orange are taking action to prevent
calling card users, and now suddenly all the calling card users are up
in arms.
What a suprise.
> So what I want to do, if it's possible, is transfer my main Line 1
> contract number to my existing PAYG SIM, retaining the O/H pack.
Not possible.
> Can this be done..? If so, what's the easiest way of explaining it in
> words the average Orange tubby will understand..?!
Save your time and energy - don't ask because it's not going to happen.
--
Regards
Jon
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-21, 5:48 am |
|
"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG. 1dc29cd16325ecec989b
fa@usenet.plus.net
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to
> hear...
>
> Fiasco? It's hardly a fiasco. Orange are taking action to
> prevent calling card users, and now suddenly all the
> calling card users are up in arms.
I never use calling cards. Don't lump me in with the rabble.
> What a suprise.
>
>
> Not possible.
Why not..?
>
> Save your time and energy - don't ask because it's not
> going to happen.
Fine, another customer gone then. Bye..
Ivor
| |
| Fred Smith 2005-10-21, 5:48 am |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
>
>
> Why not..?
Ivor, you asked "if it's possible". You are told it's "not possible".
You asked "why not".
I suggest you contact the Board at Orange and ask them why - I doubt
that anyone here can give you the accurate commercial or technical reason.
Be sure to let us know what the Board says.
| |
| Fred Smith 2005-10-21, 5:48 am |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
>
>
> I never use calling cards. Don't lump me in with the rabble.
Like you I don't use calling cards on Orange - I use the 800 numbers of
companies to make free calls from my Orange handset from time to time.
People like BT, the RAC, my insurance company, etc.
If the change gives me the chance to break four contracts I might very
well take it. However I am faced with paying for these 800 number calls
on the other networks anyway. Just a sign of the times.
I have geographic numbers for most organisations I need to call and will
just use those if need be.
| |
|
| Fred Smith wrote:
> Ivor Jones wrote:
[...]
> I suggest you contact the Board at Orange and ask them why - I doubt
> that anyone here can give you the accurate commercial or technical reason.
>
> Be sure to let us know what the Board says.
I understand your point Fred, but do you really think that any company's
board knows technical aspects of how its systems work?
| |
|
| Jon wrote:
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
> Fiasco? It's hardly a fiasco. Orange are taking action to prevent
> calling card users, and now suddenly all the calling card users are up
> in arms.
>
> What a suprise.
Fiasco is simply a person's choice of words. Others might use different
words - like shambles, mess and so on. It was free, now it isn't, which
means that the company you work for doesn't know if it's going or coming
(I can tell you they're going). There are plenty of good deals around on
all the other networks. People will select their new network by looking
at prices; not by the network's innovative features (Everyphone,
wildfire et al). Orange simply is "just another one" now and can't stand
out among the rest.
Your comment is rather flawed about calling cards. A company I used to
work for had hundreds of Orange contract phones. They used the free 0800
calls (amongst other useful services that are now gone) to call their
office free of charge. They've ditched them now. Who has missed out this
time? Besides, even those that did use calling cards' 0800 access
numbers on Orange, there are plenty of providers out there that have 02
and 01 access numbers that can be used on virtually every network with
inclusive minutes.
| |
| Fred Smith 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| AC wrote:
>
>
> I understand your point Fred, but do you really think that any company's
> board knows technical aspects of how its systems work?
I bet they will know a man who does - and more importantly they will get
an answer - which Ivor will not.
| |
| Jonathan Sklan-Willis 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Porting a number to a new SIM pack is possible.
What needs to be done in Ivor Jones's case is buying a new SIM pack on
another network and asking Orange for a PAC code on the contract phone. It
then needs to be ported over BEFORE the SIM pack is enabled. If you do it
after (at least from my experience on Orange, Voda & Virgin), they will not
change the number. If the Orange SIM pack is new and has no number
registered to the SIM yet (that means you haven't dialled the few digits on
the phone that activate the number), then it is possible, otherwise forget
it. Do NOT internally transfer the number to Orange PAYG as they will give
you hell.
The reason it's not possible to port a number over a number, without (on
contract) advising that you wish to do that from the start, is because thats
how they want it. Only good thing 3mobile allow, they'll change your number
as many times as you want. Occasionally, you may get a nice guy on the other
end who does it, but I've wanted to do it 6 times (don't ask!) and only once
did they let me do it. So now, every 2 or so months I just don't activate my
pack and within 48 hours I usually have the number, even though they claim
up to 5-7 days.
"Fred Smith" <fred@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:435894A7.4020704@btinternet.com...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
>
> Ivor, you asked "if it's possible". You are told it's "not possible". You
> asked "why not".
>
> I suggest you contact the Board at Orange and ask them why - I doubt that
> anyone here can give you the accurate commercial or technical reason.
>
> Be sure to let us know what the Board says.
| |
| Fred Smith 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Jonathan Sklan-Willis wrote more top posting:
> The reason it's not possible to port a number over a number, without (on
> contract) advising that you wish to do that from the start, is because thats
> how they want it.
So you haven't answered the question any better than a customer service
rep at Orange - we have moved the conversation on a bit since.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
|
"Jonathan Sklan-Willis" <jsklanwillis@online-identity.net>
wrote in message
news:pq56f.515$Sx4.462@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net
> Porting a number to a new SIM pack is possible.
>
> What needs to be done in Ivor Jones's case is buying a
> new SIM pack on another network and asking Orange for a
> PAC code on the contract phone. It then needs to be
> ported over BEFORE the SIM pack is enabled.
I know I can transfer my existing contract number to PAYG. What I cannot
do, it seems, is transfer an pre-existing O/H pack which is currently on
another PAYG number which I already have, to my contract number after
migrating it. I want to do this because my contract number is more widely
known and it will enable me to use the same number for both voice and SMS,
otherwise I will have to tell everyone the other number and carry two
phones around until they're used to it.
Ivor
| |
| Brian Morrison 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Jon wrote:
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
>
>
>
> Fiasco? It's hardly a fiasco. Orange are taking action to prevent
> calling card users, and now suddenly all the calling card users are up
> in arms.
>
> What a suprise.
Um no, people are up in arms because the action of Orange to suppress
calling card use is affecting those that have never abused the ability
to call 0800 numbers without charge and have had this facility for a
very long time.
This used to be the sort of thing Orange used to differentiate
themselves by, but now all those little touches are disappearing and the
result is loyal long time customers are getting upset. They may not have
made many 0800 calls, but they had a nice warm feeling from being able
to do so FOC.
Nothing personal Jon, but I think you have it wrong this time. If
calling cards are the problem then the relevant 080x number sub-ranges
should have been selectively blocked, as it is many CC numbers have been
hopped around for years to avoid being blocked. It can't have been that
hard to nail them and then leave the T&C respecting customers alone.
--
Brian Morrison
please observe reply-to address
| |
| Brian Morrison 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Fred Smith wrote:
> AC wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I bet they will know a man who does - and more importantly they will get
> an answer - which Ivor will not.
I bet that they can't understand the answer they get though ;-)
--
Brian Morrison
please observe reply-to address
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
|
"Brian Morrison" <scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:scSdndDwab3skMT
enZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@ec
lipse.net.uk
[snip]
> Nothing personal Jon, but I think you have it wrong this
> time. If calling cards are the problem then the relevant
> 080x number sub-ranges should have been selectively
> blocked, as it is many CC numbers have been hopped around
> for years to avoid being blocked. It can't have been that
> hard to nail them and then leave the T&C respecting
> customers alone.
The very least they could have done was to include 0800 calls in inclusive
minutes rather than rip people off at 10p/min outside of those minutes. I
have *never* used my phone to access a calling card number, and I have
only ever called 0800 numbers such as the AA when my car has broken down.
I have never abused the facility. In any case, freephone numbers are
*supposed* to be free, if it costs more to terminate them for mobile users
then the owners of the 0800 numbers should pay the costs, they're the ones
that want people to call them enough to pay for the privilege.
I will be cancelling my contract at the end of the current billing period.
I will retain my other PAYG phone with its Out Here pack until they decide
to withdraw the "for life" messages, then that will be it as far as I'm
concerned.
I have been with Orange since 1997 and have always defended them as I
genuinely thought they were the best, but no more. Enough is enough and
the withdrawal of free calls to freephone numbers is the last straw.
Ivor
| |
| WigWag 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:16:45 +0100, Fred Smith <fred@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>Just a sign of the times.
If we all accept that statement, we might as well roll over and have
our tummies tickled in Rip Off Britain.
| |
| WigWag 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:46:52 +0100, Brian Morrison
<scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk> wrote:
>This used to be the sort of thing Orange used to differentiate
>themselves by, but now all those little touches are disappearing and the
>result is loyal long time customers are getting upset.
Nail on the head.
| |
|
| ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Why not..?
No idea. You could port out and in again if you really wanted to I
expect. I think this has already been pointed out by Tariq.
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Fiasco is simply a person's choice of words. Others might use different
> words - like shambles, mess and so on.
That would seem to indicate a lack of direction, or not really knowing
what they are doing. Whilst that may be the case they have made a
decision which has been brewing for along time. That to me is decisive
and completely the opposite of "shambles" or any other similar
description.
> It was free, now it isn't, which
> means that the company you work for doesn't know if it's going or coming
Again, I disagree. Taking steps to protect revenue would seem to me to
be a clear statement of direction.
> (I can tell you they're going). There are plenty of good deals around on
> all the other networks.
And do they offer free 0800 calls?
> People will select their new network by looking
> at prices; not by the network's innovative features (Everyphone,
> wildfire et al). Orange simply is "just another one" now and can't stand
> out among the rest.
That's been the case for a long time, and is true of all networks in my
opinion. There is very little differentiation in terms of price, and
also in terms of extra services aswell.
> Your comment is rather flawed about calling cards. A company I used to
> work for had hundreds of Orange contract phones. They used the free 0800
> calls (amongst other useful services that are now gone) to call their
> office free of charge. They've ditched them now. Who has missed out this
> time?
In that example then Orange will have lost revenue from your COmpany's
decision to go with another operator.
> Besides, even those that did use calling cards' 0800 access
> numbers on Orange, there are plenty of providers out there that have 02
> and 01 access numbers that can be used on virtually every network with
> inclusive minutes.
Indeed, but isn't there more money in carrying an 01 or 02 call rather
than an 0800 call? That's the whole point of it surely?
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk declared for all the world to hear...
> Um no, people are up in arms because the action of Orange to suppress
> calling card use is affecting those that have never abused the ability
> to call 0800 numbers without charge and have had this facility for a
> very long time.
But in this group it's calling card users who are having a hard time
dealing with it. I'm sure there are people who use 0800 occasionally who
will be pissed off but I'm also sure that that would have been taken
into account in whatever decision making processes go on upstairs.
> This used to be the sort of thing Orange used to differentiate
> themselves by, but now all those little touches are disappearing and the
> result is loyal long time customers are getting upset. They may not have
> made many 0800 calls, but they had a nice warm feeling from being able
> to do so FOC.
I agree.
> Nothing personal Jon, but I think you have it wrong this time.
It's never personal Brian :-) Everyone is entitled to their opinion of
course and I fully accept that some non-calling card users will be hit
by this, but I think the bigger picture is likely to be that Orange will
gain overall from this move, otherwise they would not have done it.
> If
> calling cards are the problem then the relevant 080x number sub-ranges
> should have been selectively blocked
They do this already, but it does rely on people (generally CSRs)
spotting CC numbers and informing the right people.
> as it is many CC numbers have been
> hopped around for years to avoid being blocked. It can't have been that
> hard to nail them and then leave the T&C respecting customers alone.
Who knows? Not me that's for sure!
--
Regards
Jon
| |
| Cheeky 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:46:52 +0100, Brian Morrison
<scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk> wrote:
>Um no, people are up in arms because the action of Orange to suppress
>calling card use is affecting those that have never abused the ability
>to call 0800 numbers without charge and have had this facility for a
>very long time.
I don't like the term "abuse" - why is calling an 0800 calling card
number on a mobile phone any different from calling one on BT or a
cable phone? O should try and compete with them rather than this
ham-fisted approach. TBH, I think it should be illegal for any company
(mobile or otherwise) to charge for calls to freephone numbers...
>This used to be the sort of thing Orange used to differentiate
>themselves by, but now all those little touches are disappearing and the
>result is loyal long time customers are getting upset. They may not have
>made many 0800 calls, but they had a nice warm feeling from being able
>to do so FOC.
Well said. I very rarely would use a CC number when I needed to make
calls outside the UK. I spend a hell of a lot of money with Orange so
to me this is a miserly thing they're doing and one more reason to
consider other operators next time my contract is up...
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
|
"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG. 1dc33958a8f9ebbd989b
fb@usenet.plus.net
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to
> hear...
>
>
>
> No idea. You could port out and in again if you really
> wanted to I expect. I think this has already been pointed
> out by Tariq.
But doing this would not retain the O/H pack on the ported number, which
is the whole point of the excercise. At the end of the day I will end up
with 2 PAYG SIM cards but with the O/H pack on the wrong one, I simply
want to move it from one to the other, but it seems this can't (or rather
won't) be done.
In my view there is a world of difference between *can't* as in
technically not possible and *won't* as in we don't want to so we won't. I
just want to know which applies and why, in either case.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
|
"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG. 1dc33bc96e9c94aa989b
fd@usenet.plus.net
> scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk declared for all the world to
> hear...
>
> But in this group it's calling card users who are having
> a hard time dealing with it. I'm sure there are people
> who use 0800 occasionally who will be pissed off but I'm
> also sure that that would have been taken into account in
> whatever decision making processes go on upstairs.
I only use 0800 occasionally. I used it today as it happens for the first
time in around 3 months. However it is the straw that has broken this
camel's back. I have been an Orange customer for 8 years, but I will be
ending my contract at the next billing date. I will retain my PAYG SIM
with the O/H pack until such time as Orange decide to remove that as well,
then I will leave entirely. I have an O2 and a Virgin SIM both sitting
unused, so someone else will be getting my money.
But I don't suppose Orange care, after all I only spend £25 a month.
Hardly worth getting out of bed for, is it..?
Goodbye, Orange. Never thought I'd utter those words.
Ivor
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG. 1dc29cd16325ecec989b
fa@usenet.plus.net
>
> I never use calling cards. Don't lump me in with the rabble.
I'm proud to be lumped with the rabble! I've used calling cards
consistently for the last 4 years. Why wouldn't I? Analysing my calling
minutes, I make more 0800 calls than regular ones (on ED50.) Do you
really call that many 0800 numbers? I think the only one I call is my
bank for balance etc. I'll just make those from a payphone or something
when out and about.
I'm not 'up in arms' about anything. Orange can do what the hell they
like, and indeed they do. I'll just look at ways of spending less money
with them though, and PAYG is looking pretty good...
Most of their extra revenue from me tended to be from roaming, as I'm
abroad a lot. Well, riiing put paid to that little earner for them! :)
& #91;]
>
> Fine, another customer gone then. Bye..
If you called them up, you could expect the Katherine Tate reponse- "am
I bothered?" :)
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| Brian Morrison 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| Jon wrote:
> scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk declared for all the world to hear...
>
>
>
> But in this group it's calling card users who are having a hard time
> dealing with it. I'm sure there are people who use 0800 occasionally who
> will be pissed off but I'm also sure that that would have been taken
> into account in whatever decision making processes go on upstairs.
>
I think your choice of wording is about right, but that could just be
wishful thinking on my part :)
>
>
>
> I agree.
>
>
>
>
> It's never personal Brian :-) Everyone is entitled to their opinion of
> course and I fully accept that some non-calling card users will be hit
> by this, but I think the bigger picture is likely to be that Orange will
> gain overall from this move, otherwise they would not have done it.
>
Yes, they gain financially now perhaps, but I wonder how much damage
this does in the end. Maybe very few O customers actually knew that 0800
calls were free, just as very few appeared to know about Everyphone and
low usage resulted in lack of expenditure on the platform and eventual
removal which really annoyed those of us that used it regularly.
Oh well, rant over, I hope it all works out for you.....
--
Brian Morrison
please observe reply-to address
| |
| Fred Smith 2005-10-21, 5:48 pm |
| WigWag wrote:
>
>
> If we all accept that statement, we might as well roll over and have
> our tummies tickled in Rip Off Britain.
You have to accept the statement - since it is true. What's your plan
to resist this then?
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:54:30 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>Why not..?
To be pedantic, it is possible, but Orange won't do it.
Why not..?
They seem to have a policy of trying to make many of their users hate
them. You have to be fair, they do seem to be succeeding at that.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:54:58 +0100, Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com>
wrote:
>But in this group it's calling card users who are having a hard time
>dealing with it.
No, that's simply not true. I never use calling cards, but I do call
0800 numbers. I am not happy about it, but it only has limited impact
because nearly all our Orange phones are on VM OVP or Just Talk, so
they don't get free 0800 anyway.
The point is that Orange used to give the punter an even break, and
now they don't.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
| Tariq 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
|
Ivor Jones wrote:
[color=darkred]
> But doing this would not retain the O/H pack on the ported number, which
> is the whole point of the excercise.
Of course it will!
> At the end of the day I will end up
> with 2 PAYG SIM cards but with the O/H pack on the wrong one, I simply
> want to move it from one to the other, but it seems this can't (or rather
> won't) be done.
No, ultimately you'll have one Orange PAYG SIM (the old one that you
already have, with O/H on it and with the ex-contract number ported to
it). You will however, lose the Contract Line2 number and the old PAYG
number (which will be over-written when the ex-contract number ports
in).
> In my view there is a world of difference between *can't* as in
> technically not possible and *won't* as in we don't want to so we won't. I
> just want to know which applies and why, in either case.
If it's because they can't do it (and it certainly used to be the case,
and probably still is unless they've done some major upgrades and
re-organisation in the last year and a bit) then it's because Orange
PAYG and Contract records are managed on two different systems - there
is a process for migrating numbers between them (can't remember exactly
how it's done at this minute) but as stated before, I believe that
contract --> PAYG involves putting setting up a clean new PAYG account
(which consequently generates a new account and Orange's policy (the
'won't') is that O/H is not transferable (because they can screw you
over and save money when you give it up/no longer use it)).
Unlike Orange contract accounts, PAYG accounts (can) only contain one
number/SIM (AFAIK) which I suspect will be a limitation of the system
that they use to manage the accounts.
Tariq
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| Fred Smith <fred@btinternet.com> wrote:
> WigWag wrote:
>
>
> You have to accept the statement - since it is true. What's your plan
> to resist this then?
Use the mobile less? The mobile companies are operating on the
assumption that people need to make the amount of mobile calls that they
currently do. Many don't, and there are so many different ways of
keeping in touch.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| Soruk 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:31:23 +0100, Cheeky <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:46:52 +0100, Brian Morrison
><scrapspam@fenrir.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>I don't like the term "abuse" - why is calling an 0800 calling card
>number on a mobile phone any different from calling one on BT or a
>cable phone? O should try and compete with them rather than this
>ham-fisted approach. TBH, I think it should be illegal for any company
>(mobile or otherwise) to charge for calls to freephone numbers...
>
>
>Well said. I very rarely would use a CC number when I needed to make
>calls outside the UK. I spend a hell of a lot of money with Orange so
>to me this is a miserly thing they're doing and one more reason to
>consider other operators next time my contract is up...
I used to be one of these CC users - but stopped that a few years back,
instead using services like Telediscount for my international calling -
and an OVP VM phone for daytime calls (in addition to my main ED50 line).
But this move irritates me - the last 0800 I called was the AA after I had
a flat tyre on the M25 (do they have an 01/02/0845 number?), and that was
quite some time ago.
--
-- Michael "Soruk" McConnell
Eridani Star System
MailStripper - http://mailstripper.eridani.co.uk/ - SMTP spam filter
Mail Me Anywhere - http://www.MailMeAnywhere.com/ - Mobile email
| |
| Raoul 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> In my view there is a world of difference between *can't* as in
> technically not possible and *won't* as in we don't want to so we won't. I
> just want to know which applies and why, in either case.
Orange are a company. They owe you nothing.
Get over it.
Raoul
| |
| Raoul 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| Jon wrote:
> That would seem to indicate a lack of direction, or not really knowing
> what they are doing. Whilst that may be the case they have made a
> decision which has been brewing for along time. That to me is decisive
> and completely the opposite of "shambles" or any other similar
> description.
Jon,
Do not let the crazy, obsessive, weird, anoraks on the Internet get to you.
Raoul.
| |
| Raoul 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> I have been with Orange since 1997 and have always defended them as I
> genuinely thought they were the best, but no more. Enough is enough and
> the withdrawal of free calls to freephone numbers is the last straw.
So take your business elsewhere and stop moaning, Ivor. Having read your
posts for some time now, it seems you do little else.
Raoul
| |
| Raoul 2005-10-21, 11:48 pm |
| Cheeky wrote:
> I don't like the term "abuse" - why is calling an 0800 calling card
> number on a mobile phone any different from calling one on BT or a
> cable phone? O should try and compete with them rather than this
> ham-fisted approach. TBH, I think it should be illegal for any company
> (mobile or otherwise) to charge for calls to freephone numbers...
I'm at a loss as to why a mobile telephone network engaging in open
competition with three similarly sized rivals should try to compete with a
monolithic, monopoly-holding, fixed-line telco.
Perhaps you could explain.
Raoul
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-22, 5:48 am |
|
"Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
news:djc3im$ji9$4@ne
wsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> Orange are a company. They owe you nothing.
>
> Get over it.
Obviously an Orange senior manager..!
Could you answer my question above, please..?
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-22, 5:48 am |
|
"Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
news:djc3t0$ji9$6@ne
wsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> So take your business elsewhere and stop moaning, Ivor.
> Having read your posts for some time now, it seems you do
> little else.
> Raoul
Yes Stefan.
Ivor
| |
| Cheeky 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
| On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:18:53 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>Cheeky wrote:
>
>I'm at a loss as to why a mobile telephone network engaging in open
>competition with three similarly sized rivals should try to compete with a
>monolithic, monopoly-holding, fixed-line telco.
>
>Perhaps you could explain.
>
>Raoul
Perhaps you could explain which company you mean as I certainly can't
think of a telco with a monopoly in this part of the world: fixed
line, mobile or indirect...
Do you think it is justified to be charged for calls to "free"
numbers?
| |
| Tim Rogers 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
| > I only use 0800 occasionally. I used it today as it happens for the first
> time in around 3 months. However it is the straw that has broken this
> camel's back. I have been an Orange customer for 8 years, but I will be
> ending my contract at the next billing date. I will retain my PAYG SIM
> with the O/H pack until such time as Orange decide to remove that as well,
> then I will leave entirely. I have an O2 and a Virgin SIM both sitting
> unused, so someone else will be getting my money.
>
> But I don't suppose Orange care, after all I only spend £25 a month.
> Hardly worth getting out of bed for, is it..?
>
> Goodbye, Orange. Never thought I'd utter those words.
Indeed I was an Orange customer since 1997 until June this year then moved
to o2 online PAYG. I top up £15 get my 150 mins off peak and use the balance
for 50 mins peak and 4Mb GPRS. Still have £3 change and every three month
they give me 10% back and at present through o2 treats I get free voicemail.
No other network touches that for my calling pattern! (I do still have a
OVP-Virgin SIM with Open Access as well! - Don't mind giving Orange £4 a
month for that!!!!
Tim
>
> Ivor
>
>
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
| On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:18:53 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>I'm at a loss as to why a mobile telephone network engaging in open
>competition
None of them in the UK, as far as I can see. If you compare the
charges here, they are astonishingly similar. Then compare them to
other countries, like Hong Kong for example, and you can see what
competition would bring, rather than an oligarchic cartel.
>with three similarly sized rivals
Nothing like the truth. There are huge differences in size. Vodafone
is enormous.
>should try to compete with a
Because they are selling products that do the same thing: allow people
to make and receive telephone calls.
>monolithic, monopoly-holding, fixed-line telco.
This is an interesting suggestion. I can't think of any of them in the
UK. BT is losing market share, is fighting a losing battle with VOIP
and is desperately looking for other lines of business because they
can't compete on price.
>Perhaps you could explain.
Perhaps you need more than explanation.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
|
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
> news:djc3im$ji9$4@ne
wsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>
>
> Obviously an Orange senior manager..!
Obviously? The only thing that's obvious here, Ivor, is that you're annoyed
and trying to blame someone -- anyone. I'm not an Orange senior manager, nor
even an employee of Orange. And, shortly, I'll no longer be an Orange
customer (but this is not related to their charging for 0800 calls).
> Could you answer my question above, please..?
I do not see a question above. I obviously trimmed it, thinking it wasn't
deserving of an answer.
Raoul
| |
|
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
> news:djc3t0$ji9$6@ne
wsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>
>
> Yes Stefan.
Stefan?
Raoul
| |
|
| hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:18:53 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>
>
> None of them in the UK, as far as I can see. If you compare the
> charges here, they are astonishingly similar. Then compare them to
> other countries, like Hong Kong for example, and you can see what
> competition would bring, rather than an oligarchic cartel.
Running a network in an area the size of Hong Kong is undoubtedly cheaper
than running a network in the United Kingdom.
>
> Nothing like the truth. There are huge differences in size. Vodafone
> is enormous.
Vodafone, T-Mobile, Orange and o2 have similar customer numbers. Perhaps we
are using different metrics.
>
> Because they are selling products that do the same thing: allow people
> to make and receive telephone calls.
>
>
> This is an interesting suggestion. I can't think of any of them in the
> UK. BT is losing market share, is fighting a losing battle with VOIP
> and is desperately looking for other lines of business because they
> can't compete on price.
Are you suggesting that BT do not, currently, enjoy a monopoly?
>
> Perhaps you need more than explanation.
I knew I could rely on you to make a snide remark, Iain.
Raoul
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
| On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:20:56 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>Running a network in an area the size of Hong Kong is undoubtedly cheaper
>than running a network in the United Kingdom.
No, that's not true. But even if it were, it would not explain the
vast disparity in international call charges.
>Vodafone, T-Mobile, Orange and o2 have similar customer numbers.
That's not true either. Vodafone is a vast company
>Are you suggesting that BT do not, currently, enjoy a monopoly?
Yes. They more or less hold a monopoly for the local loop, but for
carrying calls, there is a vast range of carriers.
>
>I knew I could rely on you to make a snide remark, Iain.
You can rely on me not to let you get away with writing rubbish
unchallenged.
The truth is that you know all this, but you choose to ignore it, so
yes, you do need more than explanation.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
|
"Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
news:djdajh$qm8$1@ne
wsg3.svr.pol.co.uk
> Ivor Jones wrote:
[snip]
>
> Obviously? The only thing that's obvious here, Ivor, is
> that you're annoyed and trying to blame someone --
> anyone. I'm not an Orange senior manager, nor even an
> employee of Orange. And, shortly, I'll no longer be an
> Orange customer (but this is not related to their
> charging for 0800 calls).
Of course I am annoyed. Free 0800 access was one of the reasons I signed
up with Orange in the first place, now it is being removed for reasons
that are not being explained adequately. Of course I'm trying to blame
someone - whoever is responsible..!
>
> I do not see a question above. I obviously trimmed it,
> thinking it wasn't deserving of an answer.
The question is obvious - I will quote it again, to save you the trouble
of looking upwards:
[color=darkred]
The question being why can't what I want be done - either a technical
explanation or a marketing one, either will do as long as it's the truth.
What do I want done..? Read my original post in this thread, I don't
intend repeating that again.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
|
"Raoul" <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote in message
news:djdakb$qm8$2@ne
wsg3.svr.pol.co.uk
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> Stefan?
>
> Raoul
If you're not him, you sound an awful lot like him. Apologies if I am
mistaken.
Ivor
| |
|
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> If you're not him, you sound an awful lot like him. Apologies if I am
> mistaken.
My name is Raoul, Ivor. I live in London.
Raoul
| |
| Cheeky 2005-10-22, 5:48 pm |
| On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:20:56 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
>
>Running a network in an area the size of Hong Kong is undoubtedly cheaper
>than running a network in the United Kingdom.
>
How so? Whilst you may have to install less kit you also have a much
smaller potential customer base so it could theoretically be more
expensive for that orvany number of reasons. The population of Hong
Kong is less than that of London.
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-22, 11:48 pm |
| Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
& #91;]
> Of course I am annoyed. Free 0800 access was one of the reasons I signed
> up with Orange in the first place, now it is being removed for reasons
> that are not being explained adequately.
I'm scratching my head over this. I don't know why you _expect_ a
company to explain this kind of thing adequately. Did you feel that
Orange's simplification of roaming rates, which was basically just a
massive across the board price increase, was explained adequately? Do
you not feel that charging for what was heretofore a free service, from
a business point of view, isn't self-explanatory? I'm also puzzled why
it bothers you so much given that you've already said you don't use 0800
a lot (unless I misread that.)
Did Orange explain adequately to you the increase in international text
messaging?
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-22, 11:48 pm |
| <hairydog@despammed.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:20:56 +0100, Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
>
>
> No, that's not true. But even if it were, it would not explain the
> vast disparity in international call charges.
No, it wouldn't, but basically, a company will try and charge as much as
they feel they can in a given market. More UK consumers moving to PAYG
and not being willing to get unnecessarily high contracts so they can
subsidise shiny new phones would certainly affect pricing. Of course,
the mobile companies are the victim of the same system- look how much
they felt it was worth paying for 3g licenses!
It's not just mobiles of course. Why do itunes cost more to download in
the UK than Ireland? Why does the _UK_ made Sibelius software cost far
more in the UK than in the US?
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-23, 5:48 pm |
| On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:50:12 +0100, this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy) wrote:
>basically, a company will try and charge as much as
>they feel they can in a given market.
That's the point: there is no real competition, so they can get away
with a price that is significantly in excess of cost with normal
profit.
> Why do itunes cost more to download in
>the UK than Ireland?
I though it was free. I certainly didn't pay for it - which is more
than I reckon it is worth.
>Why does the _UK_ made Sibelius software cost far
>more in the UK than in the US?
Less competition. Which is where we came in.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-23, 5:48 pm |
| <hairydog@despammed.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:50:12 +0100, this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com
> (chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy) wrote:
>
>
> That's the point: there is no real competition, so they can get away
> with a price that is significantly in excess of cost with normal
> profit.
>
>
> I though it was free. I certainly didn't pay for it - which is more
> than I reckon it is worth.
No, sorry, I meant the itunes music downloads. Now, Apple has a captive
market in both countries- i.e. you can't download itunes from Ireland if
you live in the UK- but it's the UK downloaders that pay more. It's not
an horrific amount more, but I've noticed in these situations, the UK
often, if not usually, comes off worse- and in this case, I think it's
because a company like Apple has reason to believe that, all things
being equal, the UK consumer will pay more for a product.
>
> Less competition. Which is where we came in.
No, not at all- the competition in the notation market is pretty
vibrant, and what is available in the UK is the same as in the US. The
point is that _all_ the providers charge more in the UK than they do in
the US- and I'm allowing for VAT. I think that in this case, it's again
based on the willingness to pay.
I'm not discounting the importance of competition, but I think there are
regional differences in what will be acceptable to the consumer that
competition by itself doesn't always fix.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-23, 5:48 pm |
|
"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy"
< this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1h4uxpl. 1bebj3qioo52yN%this_
address_is_for_spam@
yahoo.com
> Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> []
>
> I'm scratching my head over this. I don't know why you
> _expect_ a company to explain this kind of thing
> adequately.
If someone makes a decision that affects me directly, then yes I expect an
explanation if I ask for one.
> Did you feel that Orange's simplification of
> roaming rates, which was basically just a massive across
> the board price increase, was explained adequately? Do
> you not feel that charging for what was heretofore a free
> service, from a business point of view, isn't
> self-explanatory? I'm also puzzled why it bothers you so
> much given that you've already said you don't use 0800 a
> lot (unless I misread that.)
Don't confuse the issue. I am asking about the removal of free 0800 and
the transfer of an O/H pack, nothing else.
> Did Orange explain adequately to you the increase in
> international text messaging?
What has international text messaging got to do with it..?
Ivor
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-23, 5:48 pm |
| Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
& #91;]
> Don't confuse the issue. I am asking about the removal of free 0800 and
> the transfer of an O/H pack, nothing else.
And I'm showing that you're dealing with a company which is quite
duplicitous in its communications with customers. Not that it's confined
to Orange, of course.
>
>
> What has international text messaging got to do with it..?
It's another example of a way a company operates. I suggest that while
it's a reasonable expectation to want an explanation, it's not a
_realistic_ one.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-23, 5:48 pm |
| <hairydog@despammed.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:00:28 +0100, this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com
> (chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy) wrote:
>
>
> For one thing, you'd surely not want to tie your music up with that
> DRM rubbish, and if you were bothered about price, why get it from
> Ireland when allofmp3 is so much better value?
That's a different issue, though. I'm not necessarily saying that _I'm_
bothered by the price of itunes (I hardly download them)- I'm pointing
out that the price is different depending on the local market, even in a
captive situation. Allofmp3 _is_ better value in raw price, but when I'm
interested in getting a quick download, I'm often stuck with what's
available. Like eclassical, the actual performances and recordings on
Allofmp3 tend to be on the lower value scale, compared to the itunes
classical collection. You have much less choice with classical downloads
in any case- it's very meagre pickings unfortunately.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
|
| Jon wrote:
> That would seem to indicate a lack of direction, or not really knowing
> what they are doing. Whilst that may be the case they have made a
> decision which has been brewing for along time. That to me is decisive
> and completely the opposite of "shambles" or any other similar
> description.
Of course, you're quite right here. Orange's "direction" wrt pricing has
been clear for a while now - to rip-off customers and price hike every
single service it offers left, right and centre. It's becoming clearer now.
From a consumer point of view, they have lost the plot though. What
company increases ALL its charges, when the market is directed towards
cheaper deals (take 3 for example) and expects its customers to stay
loyal to them?
> Again, I disagree. Taking steps to protect revenue would seem to me to
> be a clear statement of direction.
My point wasn't about Orange's direction.
>
>
> And do they offer free 0800 calls?
Never, but they never have done. So no price increase there!
>
>
> That's been the case for a long time, and is true of all networks in my
> opinion. There is very little differentiation in terms of price, and
> also in terms of extra services aswell.
Yes, but the line is being cut more finely now.
>
>
> In that example then Orange will have lost revenue from your COmpany's
> decision to go with another operator.
I know!
>
>
> Indeed, but isn't there more money in carrying an 01 or 02 call rather
> than an 0800 call? That's the whole point of it surely?
Perhaps, but the difference is that now calling an 01 or 02 number will
come out of people's inclusive minutes, whereas before they were
completely free calls.
| |
|
| Raoul wrote:
> Jon wrote:
>
>
>
> Jon,
>
> Do not let the crazy, obsessive, weird, anoraks on the Internet get to you.
>
> Raoul.
I thought you guys were the anoraks - a quick search on Google seems to
suggest that your names appear on this group more often than mine!
| |
| Lee@DVDDebate 2005-10-24, 5:48 pm |
| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:31:51 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>If someone makes a decision that affects me directly, then yes I expect an
>explanation if I ask for one.
>
Orange run a business, not a charity. I would have thought the
patently obvious 'reason' why this has happened is so that Orange can
make more money. Isn't that reason enough? Surely this must have
occurred to you already?
Lee.
--
lee at w2designs dot co dot uk
If I have one flaw, it's that I'm a perfectoinist.
| |
| thelawnet@yahoo.com 2005-10-24, 5:48 pm |
|
Jon wrote:
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
>
> Fiasco? It's hardly a fiasco. Orange are taking action to prevent
> calling card users, and now suddenly all the calling card users are up
> in arms.
>
> What a suprise.
Orange are full of lies anyway. They told me it would cost 10p/minute
to call some 0871 numbers, and when I found out I was charged at
50p/minute they said 'no that's not the price'. They claimed they
couldn't tell me the cost of the call and it was determined by the
provider. Again not true, the 50p/minute was imposed by Orange (the BT
cost was 7p), and they continued to give out the wrong information
about the cost. When I told them I had been charged far more than they
told me it would cost, they accused me of lying, and told me that I
shouldn't be calling these numbers anyway, because Orange didn't like
it. I said 'well, I am just a customer, if you don't like people to
call certain numbers, tell them, as I didn't know anything about it.'
After spending an hour in which they denied that anyone had told me the
calls would cost 10p, I phoned back, asked the cost (which they
repeated), recorded the phone call, and sent a letter off to their CS
with a list of the calls and how much I had been overcharged by.
They replied ignoring my letter, repeating the wrong price again. I
sent them back a letter threatening court action, and they finally
repaid about =A35 less than they should have, a total of about =A380.
I don't believe they have anything in their terms and conditions about
calling services (maybe there is, but I can't see anything). The whole
thing is bullshit. They are not being ripped off. Freephone numbers are
not 'free'. Somebody pays. Orange receive money from the owner of the
freephone line. They receive the correct amount of revenue for these
calls, but they still want to stop people calling them.
There is only one wrong party here, and that is Orange. They have free
calls to freephone numbers (although they charge for 00800 numbers
(Europe-wide freephone), which they don't tell you) and are foisting a
price rise on all their customers, who have relied on these calls being
free.
| |
|
| me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
> From a consumer point of view, they have lost the plot though. What
> company increases ALL its charges, when the market is directed towards
> cheaper deals (take 3 for example) and expects its customers to stay
> loyal to them?
A Company with a superior network to offer?
Up until a few weeks ago 3 were simply a cheap voice option, and for the
most part that's all they are. Their network isn't yet up to the
standard where it can compete on level terms with the likes of Vodafone
and Orange.
Until that happens (maybe in a year or two) Orange and Vodafone will
have no problem in holding higher prices than 3.
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> For one thing, you'd surely not want to tie your music up with that
> DRM rubbish, and if you were bothered about price, why get it from
> Ireland when allofmp3 is so much better value?
I'd be genuinely interested to know how much money gets back to the artists
when someone buys a download from allofmp3.com
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-24, 5:49 pm |
| Raoul <raoul@raoul.raoul> wrote:
> hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
>
> I'd be genuinely interested to know how much money gets back to the artists
> when someone buys a download from allofmp3.com
Probably almost nothing, but my understanding is that it's techhnically
legal. It's a Russian company and has signed agreements with any
_Russian_ copyright holders.
My interest in music is mostly classical, and the state of that
recording industry is dire. Big labels going under, big name artists
getting dropped, albums by well-known artists and composers no longer
available, and so on. Online might well be the way to go, and if it
doesn't give very much, or next to nothing, to the copyright holders of
_those_ CDs- well, they're not getting much now! The state of the online
provision for classical music is _very_ thin though, a I pointed out in
another post. Understandable, it's not a big business compared to more
popular music.
I've never understood exactly how collecting mechanical royalties works,
but when I look at my own PRS statements, the amount is usually quite
small. I don't even know what the following one from this week's
statement means! :)
Euro Cable Re-trans- BBC Radio 3 (SPD) £1.45
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-10-24, 5:49 pm |
|
"Lee@DVDDebate" <lee@nospamw2designs.co.uk> wrote in
message news:ouapl19hd10qth7
do8hm9i14f8e4o60pep@
4ax.com
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:31:51 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
> Orange run a business, not a charity. I would have
> thought the patently obvious 'reason' why this has
> happened is so that Orange can make more money. Isn't
> that reason enough? Surely this must have occurred to you
> already?
I never said they run a charity. I do volunteer work for a charity, I know
what the word means, don't confuse the issue.
What "occurs to me" is irrelevant. I am one of their customers, the money
they make comes partially from me. If I ask for an explanation, I expect
one. If it is indeed "to make more money" why can't they tell me this..?
Ivor
| |
| marko@ntlworld.com 2005-10-24, 5:49 pm |
| But T-Mobile and Orange did went to OFCOM about getting the termination
charge from 0800 operators increase but to no avail. soon afterwards
T-Mobile started to charge for 0800.
| |
|
| Jon wrote:
> me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
>
>
>
> A Company with a superior network to offer?
I think that is arguable and your own, biased opinion.
I don't agree that Orange has a superior network. In fact, I rate
T-Mobile a "better network" than Orange now. My favourite of course is
Vodafone, which wins hands-down.
> Up until a few weeks ago 3 were simply a cheap voice option, and for the
> most part that's all they are. Their network isn't yet up to the
> standard where it can compete on level terms with the likes of Vodafone
> and Orange.
Do you honestly believe people will stay with Orange when they know
they're hiking every price up right before their very eyes? What's there
to say they won't be more expensive tomorrow (compared to everyone else)
than they are today, even if their network is slightly better than 3's?
Fine, I totally agree that their (3's) network isn't fully built yet,
their phones are huge and their batteries don't do them much good, but
they are cheap (cheaper?) and you can't deny the fact that Orange is
bleeding customers to them.
> Until that happens (maybe in a year or two) Orange and Vodafone will
> have no problem in holding higher prices than 3.
Vodafone I can agree with; not Orange though.
| |
|
| me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Do you honestly believe people will stay with Orange when they know
> they're hiking every price up right before their very eyes? What's there
> to say they won't be more expensive tomorrow (compared to everyone else)
> than they are today, even if their network is slightly better than 3's?
Everyone else will "hike" prices at the same time, so the Status Quo
will be maintained, give or take a few thousand subscribers.
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| Jon wrote:
> me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
>
>
>
> Everyone else will "hike" prices at the same time, so the Status Quo
> will be maintained, give or take a few thousand subscribers.
Again, I think that is a matter of opinion. I can see Vodafone
*dropping* prices (take this VF passport thing for international
roaming). I haven't seen anyone follow suite, but it's certainly done
VF a lot of good.
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-10-26, 5:49 pm |
| On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:04:26 +0100, AC <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>I think that is arguable and your own, biased opinion.
>I don't agree that Orange has a superior network. In fact, I rate
>T-Mobile a "better network" than Orange now. My favourite of course is
>Vodafone, which wins hands-down.
Of course it depends where you are, but I still think that Orange is a
lot better than T-Mobile, though the gap has narrowed.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
| |
| Simon Ough 2005-10-26, 11:48 pm |
|
hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:04:26 +0100, AC <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
> Of course it depends where you are, but I still think that Orange is a
> lot better than T-Mobile, though the gap has narrowed.
And of course, not forgetting T-Mobiles massive rises coming in on 1st
December also.
Just to clarify, Orange (as far as I know) will not allow you to
terminate early under clause 4.3 for the increase in 0800 numbers.
Don't ask me why as I can't tell you. You'll have to play Super Sleuth.
:)
Simon
| |
|
| me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Again, I think that is a matter of opinion. I can see Vodafone
> *dropping* prices (take this VF passport thing for international
> roaming).
Which only actually works in a handful of countries where there are also
Vodafone networks.
> I haven't seen anyone follow suite, but it's certainly done
> VF a lot of good.
Can you quantify that or back it up with evidence at all?
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| Jon wrote:
> me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
>
>
>
> Which only actually works in a handful of countries where there are also
> Vodafone networks.
Vodafone have the most partner networks and vodafone-branded networks
abroad than any other network in the world. Can Orange claim anything
about their network that even comes close? Passport is certainly
something they or any other network could never have come up with, as
with Stop The Clock.
>
>
> Can you quantify that or back it up with evidence at all?
Yes.
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-27, 11:48 pm |
| Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote:
> me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
>
> Which only actually works in a handful of countries where there are also
> Vodafone networks.
No- it also includes agreements, unless France SFR is no Vodafone etc.
Well, it may well be a handfule, but the countries covered by Vodafone
Passport actually cover 75% of _all_ trips (business and pleasure) made
by UK residents, including the top 3 countries visited by people from
the UK. That's not bad.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
| |
|
| me@privacy.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Vodafone have the most partner networks and vodafone-branded networks
> abroad than any other network in the world. Can Orange claim anything
> about their network that even comes close?
In terms of roaming agreements I don't know actual numbers but there's
not much difference at all.
> Passport is certainly
> something they or any other network could never have come up with, as
> with Stop The Clock.
Why is that?
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Yes.
Well, please do so then!
--
Regards
Jon
| |
|
| this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com declared for all the world to hear...
> No- it also includes agreements, unless France SFR is no Vodafone etc.
> Well, it may well be a handfule, but the countries covered by Vodafone
> Passport actually cover 75% of _all_ trips (business and pleasure) made
> by UK residents, including the top 3 countries visited by people from
> the UK. That's not bad.
No, not bad at all. Not all-encompassing though either.
--
Regards
Jon
| |
| chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and 2005-10-28, 5:48 pm |
| Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote:
> this_address_is_for_
spam@yahoo.com declared for all the world to hear...
>
> No, not bad at all. Not all-encompassing though either.
No, of course not, but I thought it was important to point out that,
while it is relatively a handful of countries, it covers such a large
proportion of its customers.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
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