Cell Phones in Great Britain - internet on the move / trains / laptops / 3g / gprs etc

Author

internet on the move / trains / laptops / 3g / gprs etc

*Darren*

2007-03-12, 7:33 am

Hi

Currently in our small business, we have Nokia 6230i's (bit old now!!) on a
vodafone 1250 business tarriff, consisting of 4 phones.

Our contract has now run over the 12 months so we are looking into new
things.

Basically, we are looking for advice, on best approaches.

I guess mainly the decision will come under cost/usability of 3g or gprs
data.

3 of the phones require data, the other one doesn't.

Questions:

1. Do we Get a handset (which must be small) to read/send emails, wap etc
(I'm guessing here is where 3g/gprs makes no real difference since we won't
be streaming video]

2. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and use something like remote desktop
to access a server in the office so that they can use outlook etc (is this
bandwidth demanding??)

3. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and then VPN into the office and use
outlook on local PC (this is slow on GPRS!)

4. Get data cards instead because then they can handle automatic switching
between 3g/gprs coverage areas (is this true?)

I think I prefer remote desktop option because this works quite well under
GPRS.

Based on your experience, what would be the recommened approach?

Staff will always have their laptops on them and this use is mainly intended
for trains.

Btw. we use exchange 2003 for our emails, incase somebody wants to recommend
smart phones.

Thanks
Darren

simonclark123@hotmail.com

2007-03-12, 7:33 am

On 12 Mar, 10:10, "*Darren*" <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Currently in our small business, we have Nokia 6230i's (bit old now!!) on=
a
> vodafone 1250 business tarriff, consisting of 4 phones.
>
> Our contract has now run over the 12 months so we are looking into new
> things.
>
> Basically, we are looking for advice, on best approaches.
>
> I guess mainly the decision will come under cost/usability of 3g or gprs
> data.
>
> 3 of the phones require data, the other one doesn't.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Do we Get a handset (which must be small) to read/send emails, wap etc
> (I'm guessing here is where 3g/gprs makes no real difference since we won=
't
> be streaming video]
>
> 2. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and use something like remote desk=
top
> to access a server in the office so that they can use outlook etc (is this
> bandwidth demanding??)
>
> 3. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and then VPN into the office and u=
se
> outlook on local PC (this is slow on GPRS!)
>
> 4. Get data cards instead because then they can handle automatic switching
> between 3g/gprs coverage areas (is this true?)
>
> I think I prefer remote desktop option because this works quite well under
> GPRS.
>
> Based on your experience, what would be the recommened approach?
>
> Staff will always have their laptops on them and this use is mainly inten=
ded
> for trains.
>
> Btw. we use exchange 2003 for our emails, incase somebody wants to recomm=
end
> smart phones.
>
> Thanks
> Darren

Hi Darren

IMO, based on what you've stated above, your best and cheapest option
is to move to T-Mobile with 3g handsets capable of use as 3g modems in
combination with your laptops. An extra =A312.50 per month for each of
the 3 handsets you wish to use for data will allow 2 gig of data
download/upload each per month and T-Mobile now have HSDPA enabled,
which is basically 3g but 4 times as fast (and in future even faster).

I can certainly sort this (or another solution) for you, should you
wish.

My aim, which I have always achieved to date, is to provide a solution
at zero hardware cost.

Should you wish to discuss further, my email address is my full name
with no dot at my business name dot com.

Regards

Simon Clark
Business Telecoms

Neil

2007-03-12, 7:33 am

*Darren* wrote:
> Hi
>
> <snip>
>
> 4. Get data cards instead because then they can handle automatic
> switching between 3g/gprs coverage areas (is this true?)
>
> I think I prefer remote desktop option because this works quite well
> under GPRS.
>
> <snip>
>
> Thanks
> Darren

If you decide to go with datacards, I'd recommend a Huawei card over an
Option card, especially if for use when travelling. IME the Huawei E620
card is far better at coping with loss of signal - which occurs
frequently whilst travelling.

Neil

Iain Dingsdale

2007-03-12, 10:33 am

*Darren* wrote:
> Hi
>
> Currently in our small business, we have Nokia 6230i's (bit old now!!)
> on a vodafone 1250 business tarriff, consisting of 4 phones.
>
> Our contract has now run over the 12 months so we are looking into new
> things.
>
> Basically, we are looking for advice, on best approaches.
>
> I guess mainly the decision will come under cost/usability of 3g or gprs
> data.
>
> 3 of the phones require data, the other one doesn't.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Do we Get a handset (which must be small) to read/send emails, wap
> etc (I'm guessing here is where 3g/gprs makes no real difference since
> we won't be streaming video]

You could look at the blackberries, but i've used the windows mobile
devices, using direct push with our exchange server, with a lot of success.

>
> 2. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and use something like remote
> desktop to access a server in the office so that they can use outlook
> etc (is this bandwidth demanding??)

RDP only requires 25~30k so it is possible even over GPRS. However, I
wouldnt open up RDP to the internet so always use a VPN.
Remember, if you use SBS you wont be able to use terminal services - of
course then you can use the remote web workplace. If you use standard
windows server, then you'll need TS CALs

>
> 3. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and then VPN into the office and
> use outlook on local PC (this is slow on GPRS!)

Look at OWA, its much less bandwidth intensive and has most of the
features found in outlook

>
> 4. Get data cards instead because then they can handle automatic
> switching between 3g/gprs coverage areas (is this true?)

I dont think so no, but they are more convenient than a mobile. Vodafone
do unlimited data for £45 on their 3g card

>
> I think I prefer remote desktop option because this works quite well
> under GPRS.
>
> Based on your experience, what would be the recommened approach?

Windows mobile device for light users, laptop with 3g card and remote
desktop/OWA for heavier users

>
> Staff will always have their laptops on them and this use is mainly
> intended for trains.
>
> Btw. we use exchange 2003 for our emails, incase somebody wants to
> recommend smart phones.
>
> Thanks
> Darren

*Darren*

2007-03-12, 12:33 pm

"Iain Dingsdale" <iain. dingsdale@blueyonder
.coSPAM.uk> wrote in message
news:DTdJh.133254$HO5.62558@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> *Darren* wrote:
>
> You could look at the blackberries, but i've used the windows mobile
> devices, using direct push with our exchange server, with a lot of
> success.
>
>
> RDP only requires 25~30k so it is possible even over GPRS. However, I
> wouldnt open up RDP to the internet so always use a VPN.
> Remember, if you use SBS you wont be able to use terminal services - of
> course then you can use the remote web workplace. If you use standard
> windows server, then you'll need TS CALs
>
>
>
> Look at OWA, its much less bandwidth intensive and has most of the
> features found in outlook
>
>
> I dont think so no, but they are more convenient than a mobile. Vodafone
> do unlimited data for £45 on their 3g card
>
>
> Windows mobile device for light users, laptop with 3g card and remote
> desktop/OWA for heavier users

Thanks iain, most useful

Jon

2007-03-12, 3:33 pm

nobody@home.com declared for all the world to hear...
> 1. Do we Get a handset (which must be small) to read/send emails, wap etc
> (I'm guessing here is where 3g/gprs makes no real difference since we won't
> be streaming video]

Regardless of what you are doing, the extra speed of 3G will make a
pleasant difference.

> 2. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and use something like remote desktop
> to access a server in the office so that they can use outlook etc (is this
> bandwidth demanding??)

It will be too slow to use. Forget it.

> 3. Do we Connect the phones to laptops and then VPN into the office and use
> outlook on local PC (this is slow on GPRS!)

Useable on 3G. I VPN into work, then use Outlook with an exchange
server. On 2G forget it, on 3G it's fine.

> 4. Get data cards instead because then they can handle automatic switching
> between 3g/gprs coverage areas (is this true?)

Yes they can, but then so can handsets. There will be no speed
advantages of datacards, only convenience. If you need the ability to do
data voice at the same time get a datacard and a handset.

> Btw. we use exchange 2003 for our emails, incase somebody wants to recommend
> smart phones.

Any of the windows smartphones. I myself use an Orange SPV M3100 and
find it excellent for exchange outlook.
--
Regards
Jon

Iain Dingsdale

2007-03-13, 10:33 am

Jon wrote:
> nobody@home.com declared for all the world to hear...
>
> Regardless of what you are doing, the extra speed of 3G will make a
> pleasant difference.
>
>
> It will be too slow to use. Forget it.

You reckon? We have staff who use Voda 3g/GPRS cards with remote
desktop. Its bearable with GPRS, and absolutely fine with 3g. Its a
great solution because they can access all their documents, and all our
applications/databases.

>
>
> Useable on 3G. I VPN into work, then use Outlook with an exchange
> server. On 2G forget it, on 3G it's fine.
>
>
> Yes they can, but then so can handsets. There will be no speed
> advantages of datacards, only convenience. If you need the ability to do
> data voice at the same time get a datacard and a handset.
>
>
> Any of the windows smartphones. I myself use an Orange SPV M3100 and
> find it excellent for exchange outlook.

*Darren*

2007-03-13, 10:33 am

"Iain Dingsdale" <iain. dingsdale@blueyonder
.coSPAM.uk> wrote in message
news:UxvJh.108128$1E3.5230@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Jon wrote:
>
> You reckon? We have staff who use Voda 3g/GPRS cards with remote desktop.
> Its bearable with GPRS, and absolutely fine with 3g. Its a great solution
> because they can access all their documents, and all our
> applications/databases.

I think GRPS is fine for non-graphic intensive remote desktop

my concern is the amount of Mb per hour it would require

any ideas on avergare?

regards

Iain Dingsdale

2007-03-13, 10:33 am

*Darren* wrote:
>
> "Iain Dingsdale" <iain. dingsdale@blueyonder
.coSPAM.uk> wrote in message
> news:UxvJh.108128$1E3.5230@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> I think GRPS is fine for non-graphic intensive remote desktop
>
> my concern is the amount of Mb per hour it would require
>
> any ideas on avergare?
>
> regards

Well, RDP specs say it requires approx 30kbits/sec - which is
3.75kbytes/sec. Round that up to an even 5, just for worst case. Thats
300kb per minute, or 18mb per hour.

So potentially it could be expensive depending on usage and the tariff,
but you can always get an unlimited tariff.

Bandwidth for outlook will vary, and will be almost impossible to
predict. Cached mode will make things better.

OWA would definetely be the least bandwidth intensive solution, if email
is the only requirement

*Darren*

2007-03-13, 12:33 pm

"Iain Dingsdale" <iain. dingsdale@blueyonder
.coSPAM.uk> wrote in message
news:j9xJh.76428$nW6.108@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> OWA would definetely be the least bandwidth intensive solution, if email
> is the only requirement

i have found OWA slow on GPRS

Iain Dingsdale

2007-03-13, 12:33 pm

*Darren* wrote:
>
> "Iain Dingsdale" <iain. dingsdale@blueyonder
.coSPAM.uk> wrote in message
> news:j9xJh.76428$nW6.108@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>
> i have found OWA slow on GPRS
>
>

To be honest, I think you'll find anything slow on GPRS - exchange, rdp
or OWA. You could always try the "basic" OWA client, or using IMAP/POP3
over a VPN. Its worth experimenting

Theo Markettos

2007-03-14, 3:33 pm

*Darren* <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Currently in our small business, we have Nokia 6230i's (bit old now!!) on a
> vodafone 1250 business tarriff, consisting of 4 phones.

I've been using a 6280 (which I think is similar software) with Bluetooth
for Orange GPRS recently... it works but latency is large, which I think
would be a problem for remote desktop apps - SSH is painfully slow over it.
I'm informed that 3G has lower latency, so that's probably the option to go
for.

Theo

occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk

2007-03-27, 7:33 am

Interesting thread.

As a private pilot with a significant but highly intermittent need for
reliable mobile data, I've been around this block many times.

The basic problem is choosing between contract and PAYG (which is not
trivial for this kind of non-constant usage), and realising that most
of the apparently good data deals are either nonexistent or severely
curtailed when roaming.

Also many networks block the windoze PPTP VPN ports. In fact the only
PAYG network that doesn't, AFAIK, is Voda, and they have the best
coverage too. But they are the most expensive.

So all the options put you between a rock and a hard place - unless
you can use a contract with hefty monthly payments (say £40/m) in
which case you can get a sufficient data allowance to not have to
worry about how much you use.

The reason for the situation, IMHO, is that loads of light-use
corporate mobile users are being ripped off on the rentals and would
in fact would be better off on PAYG. So, everybody cripples PAYG in
some way.

There are occassional tantalising options; I've just come back from
Durban where PAYG GPRS/3G is 14 UK pence (yes you've read that right)
per megabyte. At that rate, if you can get 3G (a big if as always but
OK in the big cities, though not downstairs) there is no point in
having ADSL, and if you run VOIP (say Skype) over 3G then no need for
a land line either! The catch is: no roaming for data, and no website
topups. You can also get contract rates down to 2p per MB, with £1/MB
when roaming which is very cheap. Rental is say £10/month.

Voda UK are about £10/MB (PAYG) when roaming, but they do a special
PAYG tariff which is £3.06/MB non-roaming and £7.50/MB when roaming -
the SIM cards for this are very hard to find and Voda will not sell
them (they used to come bundled with the now-defunct Vodafone Mobile
Connect PCMCIA card (a Sierra 750), so Ebay is the place to look. Voda
don't block any ports and are the most reliable network around. The
catch? Their topup website is broken 50% of the time, and their PAYG
customer service is a bunch of total morons, so I also carry a Virgin
SIM card which is £5/MB flat for all usage and whose topup website
always works. In Durban, the Voda card ran out so we used the Virgin
one, before discovering the extremely cheap local option mentioned
above.

There is also another catch with the S. African (Vodacom) extremely
cheap data rates: they are wonderful for anonymous spamming. So, most
of the Vodacom IP range spends most of its time on the Spamcop
database, which helps to ensure that any emails you send from that IP
are quietly dumped by most corporate recipients' antispam measures....
I suspect this will be a problem with most cheap mobile data deals.
The solution is to use a 3rd party (authenticating) SMTP server (for
which you pay of course) and which won't get blacklisted.

The £5/MB Virgin PAYG, with direct debit set up, is one of the best
PAYG data deals for UK and abroad. The DD setup expands the roaming
coverage to probably match that of Voda.

Of course if your employer provides you with a Voda contract phone,
with a decent data allowance, and foots the rental bill, then use the
phone as a modem - many people do exactly that :) But this is putting
all your eggs in one basket; in many places you can get GSM voice but
not data, and as I've said most networks block VPN ports.

There is an Italian SIM card called Wind which is £1/MB everywhere. I
have yet to obtain one though. There are probably many other deals
like that.

Not staying in 5 star hotels, I routinely find no WIFI where I go, and
no 3G, certainly when really needed, so GPRS is the way.

One can run PC/Anywhere over GPRS, but it's very slow. Over 3G it's
fine but 3G coverage is on the whole very poor and absolutely cannot
be relied on when you really need it. My experience of travelling UK
and abroad is that 90% of the time there is no 3G unless you are
prepared to get in the car and drive somewhere.

The cost, at say £5/MB, of a PCA (or remote desktop) type session is
likely to be in the region of £10-£30 for an hour's messing about.

I have used various PCMCIA cards. The Option one is OK but doesn't
support GSM fax. Fax may not be relevant but I have found it useful in
a few places in Europe where there is GSM but no GPRS/3G so email or
email-to-fax is not an option. The Sierra 750 works really well but
doesn't do 3G. There are GSM+GPRS+3g+WIFI cards around but I have
never used one.

Jon

2007-03-28, 4:33 am

occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk declared for all the world to
hear...
> Also many networks block the windoze PPTP VPN ports. In fact the only
> PAYG network that doesn't, AFAIK, is Voda, and they have the best
> coverage too. But they are the most expensive.

Orange don't do any port-blocking.
--
Regards
Jon

Peter

2007-03-28, 4:33 am

Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote

>
>Orange don't do any port-blocking.

They also have probably the worst coverage when abroad.

Jon

2007-03-29, 4:33 am

occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk declared for all the world to
hear...
>
> Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote
>
>
> They also have probably the worst coverage when abroad.

Coverage is provided by other networks, so how can Orange be responsible
for that?
--
Regards
Jon

Peter

2007-03-29, 4:33 am

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Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote

>
>Coverage is provided by other networks, so how can Orange be responsible
>for that?

Coverage when roaming is according to who you have signed roaming
agreements with.

In theory, anything is possible and we could have universal roaming on
any network, with GSM, GPRS, GSM fax, 9.6k data, and flat rate charges
everywhere :)

In practice, each network decides how far to go, and often they vary
this according to class of user e.g. contract users get better
coverage than PAYG users (there is actually a tech reason for that, to
do with real time billing).

Around Europe I've found Voda the best, Virgin (T-Mobile) OK, Orange
worst.

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