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| Author |
Short Number Scams '81280' - Tanla Mobile Ltd
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|
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| I have been scammed on my Mobile Phone. A few days after joining the
Orange network I started to receive text messages from
=9181280=92 (managed by Tanla Mobile Ltd) asking me to join in with a quiz
whose questions were ridiculously simple. Since it was clearly just a
scam to get me to use a premium rate service I deleted the messages. I
received a total of 13 messages, 7 of which arrived between 8.30am and
9.00am on Saturday morning 08/03/08. It appears I have been charged
=A31.50 per message. At no time have I requested this service, and have
had to message Tanla Mobile Ltd to stop sending them in order to stop
being charged.
Orange, who are my service provider, are telling me that they are in
no way responsible, and are making me phone the company to get my
money back. A woman in India, representing Orange, apologised and
given me =A35 free talk time as a gift to say sorry, explaining that it
is a scam and they are powerless to do anything about it. I have a
contract with Orange, not with Tanla Mobile Ltd. I pay money to Orange
and they have paid Tanla Mobile Ltd, so it seems ridiculous to say
that they are in no way liable for this. To confirm that this was the
case I called again a day later and was told by a particularly rude
english woman from Orange that it was ridiculous to suggest that
Orange was in any way at fault for this, despite Tanla's history as a
Scamming company (see below).
I was also given the number and web site of the regulatory body that
deals with these scams (http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk ). Having
trawled their site I find that the company that has been charging me
has had 5 previous actions against them and been fined a total of
=A361,500 over the last year, also receiving a ban from operating for 6
months (from 11 Jun 2007) and for 12 months (from 05 Sep 2007). The
latter would still seem to be in force!?! Several of the action are
regarding almost exactly the same scenario as I am dealing with e.g.
=93complaints from members of the public reporting they were being
charged for a service they had not requested.=94
That a company can use my account with Orange in this way, and in
essence empty my Pay-as-you-go account is unbelievable.*That Orange
deny any responsibility is very strange, as I pay Orange for my phone
service and they pay the companies who run these scams. From the track
record below it is doubtful whether Orange are unaware of this type of
scam and so, in at least some way, must be considered complicit in
this fraud in my opinion.
Of course to actually sort this out means phoning a lot of people,
often on terrible phone lines to call centres in Asia, which takes up
a lot of time, all of which I am paying Orange for the privilege of
doing. However it works out Orange make money, and clearly the
scamming companies make a lot of money, and I waste a huge amount of
time and energy trying to get my money back that they took off me
illegally in the first place.
I have listed the Company below and the cases that stand against them.
For Orange and the other networks to continue allowing them on their
networks seems ridiculous, and I would love to know how much money
Orange receive every time this happens, beyond what it costs me in
phone time to sort it out with their staff.
Update : Monday, 10 March 2008
I just phoned PhonePayPlus to report the incident. Details were taken
about the text messages and I was given a reference number. I asked
who funded PhonePayPlus which seemed to cause some confusion.
Eventually I was told they are funded by =91the industry=92. When I asked
what that meant I was told it was =91Ofcom and stuff=92! She declined to
elaborate further.
I phoned Tanla Mobile Ltd, who took details and explained that they
are a front company who sell services to their clients, and they
couldn=92t tell me which of their customers had sent the text messages,
they couldn't let me talk to anyone who knew, and that they would
'investigate'.
Tanla Mobile Ltd
39 Charing Cross Road
London
WC2H 0AR
Tel: 0871 240 3500
customercare@tanlamo
bile.com
| |
| R. Mark Clayton 2008-03-10, 7:33 am |
|
"Pete" <petelock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a8d7404-3ddb-4bf8-a97f- bd90b8fdf2c0@n58g200
0hsf.googlegroups.com...
SNIP - tale of new SIM spammed with rip off SMS.
> That a company can use my account with Orange in this way, and in
essence empty my Pay-as-you-go account is unbelievable.*That Orange
deny any responsibility is very strange, as I pay Orange for my phone
service and they pay the companies who run these scams. From the track
record below it is doubtful whether Orange are unaware of this type of
scam and so, in at least some way, must be considered complicit in
this fraud in my opinion.
It is sadly very obvious that Orange's security has been compromised and
details of new Pay & Go customers passed to criminal third parties so as to
permit all the credit to be emptied into their bank account. Quite likely
this occurred outside the UK.
It is ridiculous that Orange will not take ownership of the problem.
Orange customer service has declined sharply since it was sold off - it
used to be the best.
I am afraid you will have to write what you paid for your SIM card down to
experience and buy another SIM from someone else.
Oh yes - and tell eleven other people...
| |
| Simon Ough 2008-03-10, 10:33 am |
| "R. Mark Clayton" < nospamclayton@btinte
rnet.com> wrote in message
news:8YSdndOxj_pRuEj
anZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt
.com...
> It is sadly very obvious that Orange's security has been compromised and
> details of new Pay & Go customers passed to criminal third parties so as
> to permit all the credit to be emptied into their bank account. Quite
> likely this occurred outside the UK.
>
> It is ridiculous that Orange will not take ownership of the problem.
>
> Orange customer service has declined sharply since it was sold off - it
> used to be the best.
>
> I am afraid you will have to write what you paid for your SIM card down to
> experience and buy another SIM from someone else.
Why must everyone immediately get onto the "It must be Oranges fault"
bandwagon? Write to Oranges correspondance address and ask them to send you
a list of itemised calls from the date you got the sim activated. Check to
see if an outbound text is sent to the advertised shortcode (would be
denoted as "Text sent" or similar rather than "Text Recieved". If not,
forward a copy of that along with the letter of correspondance to
PhonePayPlus.
To say it's Orange's fault is nothing short of rediculous. Orange get
charged for the message from the operator, which then gets passed on to the
end user. How are Orange (or any other phone operator to that matter) to
know that it isn't a legitimate request. Due to the Data Protection Act, the
SMS aggregator (Tanla in this case) will not divulge any information to the
phone companies whatsoever, and the phone networks will certainly not pass
on information to the third party aggregators.
What I think has happened is that you have been given a re-cycled number
that someone else had before you, and had subscribed to these services.
Unfortunately (once again due to DPA) the phone networks will not pass
information on about changes of ownership/disconnections etc.
It's bad luck on your part, but certainly NOT Oranges (or any other phone
comapnies) fault. It's what can happen with re-cycled numbers unfortunately.
Simon
| |
| R. Mark Clayton 2008-03-10, 10:33 am |
|
"Simon Ough" <simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:A6mdnVXp- MTdsUjanZ2dnUVZ8s2mn
Z2d@bt.com...
> "R. Mark Clayton" < nospamclayton@btinte
rnet.com> wrote in message
> news:8YSdndOxj_pRuEj
anZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt
.com...
>
>
> Why must everyone immediately get onto the "It must be Oranges fault"
> bandwagon? Write to Oranges correspondance address and ask them to send
> you a list of itemised calls from the date you got the sim activated.
> Check to see if an outbound text is sent to the advertised shortcode
> (would be denoted as "Text sent" or similar rather than "Text Recieved".
> If not, forward a copy of that along with the letter of correspondance to
> PhonePayPlus.
Whose name is on the SIM?
The security problem might be at Orange or their dealer who sold their card
(perhaps a shop assistant sent the text just before hand over.
>
> To say it's Orange's fault is nothing short of rediculous. Orange get
> charged for the message from the operator, which then gets passed on to
> the end user. How are Orange (or any other phone operator to that matter)
> to know that it isn't a legitimate request. Due to the Data Protection
> Act, the SMS aggregator (Tanla in this case) will not divulge any
> information to the phone companies whatsoever, and the phone networks will
> certainly not pass on information to the third party aggregators.
The DPA applies to individuals, not companies, and although a live person
may be the proprietor this is IMO unlikely.
>
> What I think has happened is that you have been given a re-cycled number
> that someone else had before you, and had subscribed to these services.
> Unfortunately (once again due to DPA) the phone networks will not pass
> information on about changes of ownership/disconnections etc.
>
> It's bad luck on your part, but certainly NOT Oranges (or any other phone
> comapnies) fault. It's what can happen with re-cycled numbers
> unfortunately.
Numbers should not be recycled for at least six months, by which time
Orange should certainly have twigged that paid SMS were being sent to it and
probably that is was scam.
I am not saying that he should sue Orange, just buy what he wants from
someone else.
If you look back through this group, I suspect you will find that this
problem is more common for Orange than other SP's.
>
> Simon
| |
| Steve Terry 2008-03-10, 12:34 pm |
|
"R. Mark Clayton" < nospamclayton@btinte
rnet.com> wrote in message
news:2_idne8b36242Uj
anZ2dnUVZ8tOmnZ2d@bt
.com...
>
> "Simon Ough" <simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:A6mdnVXp- MTdsUjanZ2dnUVZ8s2mn
Z2d@bt.com...
<snip>[color=darkred]
> Numbers should not be recycled for at least six months, by which time
> Orange should certainly have twigged that paid SMS were being sent to it
> and probably that is was scam.
>
> I am not saying that he should sue Orange, just buy what he wants from
> someone else.
>
> If you look back through this group, I suspect you will find that this
> problem is more common for Orange than other SP's.
>
Cos Orange along with AFAIK all other uk networks except T Mobile
refuse to offer a SMS reverse charge bar.
T Mobile should make more of the feature in advertising,
they world attract more customers and help force the others to follow suit.
Ofcon aren't interested in doing their duty
Steve Terry
| |
|
| On Mar 10, 4:17=A0pm, "Steve Terry" <gFOUR...@tesco.net> wrote:
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospamclay...@btinternet.com> wrote in messagenews:2_id=
ne8b36242UjanZ2dnUVZ
8tOmnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
>
>
>
e[color=darkred]
> <snip>
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
>
>
> Cos Orange along with AFAIK all other uk networks except T Mobile
> refuse to offer a SMS reverse charge bar.
>
> T Mobile should make more of the feature in advertising,
> they world attract more customers and help force the others to follow suit=
..
>
> Ofcon aren't interested in doing their duty
>
> Steve Terry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not a recycled number .. my old number transferred from O2 ..
I did a little more poking about and found out that PhonePayPlus are
in fact funded by funds collected by the network operators i.e.
Orange, O2 etc. Providers of premium rate services will be charged a
'levy' (2007/08 will be 0.34%.) which network providers collect and
hand over to PhonePayPlus.
In other words, Orange take money off me, they pay some to the
companies running premium rate services, keep a little back and hand
it over to PhonePayPlus.
While PhonePayPlus describe themselves as a "not-for-profit" company
that tells us little of how much the directors are paid in reality,
just that they make sure they dont run a profit each year.
http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/pdfs_news/levy_07_08.pdf shows some
details of thier accounts and with a Cash At Bank value of =A34,274,000
and current assets running at =A35,377,000 clearly business isnt too
slack.
Am I mad to suggest a conflict of interest here ?
Why should we expect Orange to care .. well .. how much do providers
like Orange make off these premium Rate Services ? Based on the model
of a premium SMS costing =A31.50, Orange UK keeps 68 pence including VAT
while Virgin Mobile keeps a whopping 98p.
so not sure if the 68p includes the VAT but roughly:
for every =A31.50
PhonePayPlus =3D~ 0.5p (0.34%)
Government=3D~ 26p (17.5% VAT)
Orange =3D~ 68p
Tanla+content/information provider =3D~ 56p
so Orange get far more than the scamming company which is a client of
Tanla, and yet still they say they are not responsible in anyway ...
speechless
| |
|
| On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Pete <petelock@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I have been scammed on my Mobile Phone. A few days after joining the
>Orange network I started to receive text messages from
>‘81280’ (managed by Tanla Mobile Ltd) asking me to join in with a quiz
>whose questions were ridiculously simple. Since it was clearly just a
>scam to get me to use a premium rate service I deleted the messages. I
>received a total of 13 messages, 7 of which arrived between 8.30am and
>9.00am on Saturday morning 08/03/08. It appears I have been charged
>£1.50 per message. At no time have I requested this service, and have
>had to message Tanla Mobile Ltd to stop sending them in order to stop
>being charged.
Just to comment on a couple of your points:
>I was also given the number and web site of the regulatory body that
>deals with these scams (http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk ). Having
>trawled their site I find that the company that has been charging me
>has had 5 previous actions against them and been fined a total of
>£61,500 over the last year, also receiving a ban from operating for 6
>months (from 11 Jun 2007) and for 12 months (from 05 Sep 2007). The
>latter would still seem to be in force!?!
Phonepayplus (previously known as ICSTIS) have no power to collect
their so-called fines and I suspect that hardly any are ever paid.
Their claim to impose fines is entirely a public relations stunt and
the press swallow their PR uncritically.
>That a company can use my account with Orange in this way, and in
>essence empty my Pay-as-you-go account is unbelievable.*That Orange
>deny any responsibility is very strange, as I pay Orange for my phone
>service and they pay the companies who run these scams.
Absolutely. You have a contract with Orange but not with the
scammers. Orange (and the other network operators) are clearly liable
in law. If this ever happened to me, I'd write to their registered
office demanding a full refund within 14 days, failing which I'd sue.
I'd then do so - it's very easy nowadays to issue proceedings online
and it's inconceivable that you'd lose the court case.
>I just phoned PhonePayPlus to report the incident. Details were taken
>about the text messages and I was given a reference number. I asked
>who funded PhonePayPlus which seemed to cause some confusion.
>Eventually I was told they are funded by ‘the industry’. When I asked
>what that meant I was told it was ‘Ofcom and stuff’! She declined to
>elaborate further.
They may be embarrassed by the source of their funding. They pretend
to be a regulator but are, in fact, a trade association funded by the
premium-rate telephone industry.
Mike.
| |
|
| On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:40:17 -0000, "Simon Ough"
<simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote:
>To say it's Orange's fault is nothing short of rediculous.
That really is rubbish! I might even say it's ridiculous (sic).
>Orange get
>charged for the message from the operator, which then gets passed on to the
>end user. How are Orange (or any other phone operator to that matter) to
>know that it isn't a legitimate request.
That's their problem, not the customer's. They have set up a system
that allows scammers to steal money from their customers and they hold
the risk, much as they try and protest otherwise.
Mike.
| |
| Simon Ough 2008-03-10, 10:33 pm |
| "Mike" <mike@kempston.net> wrote in message
news:k7gbt3teus3g0s6
g945sps9s4mt5n7n0d1@
news.kempston.net...
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:40:17 -0000, "Simon Ough"
> <simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
> That really is rubbish! I might even say it's ridiculous (sic).
I discovered the error after I posted, but thought it incredulous to post a
correction to my own post.
>
> That's their problem, not the customer's. They have set up a system
> that allows scammers to steal money from their customers and they hold
> the risk, much as they try and protest otherwise.
Actually, in this case, if the customer requests something outside of
Oranges control, then obviously it's the customers problem, not Oranges.
If I sound cynical, it's because I have never, ever been stung with these
reverse charge SMS's, and I've owned a mobile since 1994. Neither have any
other people I know of. Being in the industry since that time also has shown
that 999 times out of 1000, someone in the family has requested something
without the account holders knowledge. Little Tiny Tim gets his kicks while
mummy is at bingo etc.
Now, I understand where the OP is coming from, but it really isn't the
network operators issue, but to issue the CS number for the company
concerned, and that is that. If it was something purchased from Orange
direct, then it would be dealt with direct. In much the same way as if
you've gt car insurance with Norwich Union, you wouldn't go to Direct Line
to complain if your claim didn't get paid.
The only operator to offer reverse charge SMS barring is T-Mobile, and I
applaud that. I think that by default, all operators should bar these things
in much the same way as roaming or IDD and read a disclaimer that they are
not liable if they are requested to lift the bar... in much the same way as
Orange Safeguard. for example.
Please bear in mind, as always, that my opinions above are my own and do not
represent my employer.
| |
|
| On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:58:31 -0000, "Simon Ough"
<simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, in this case, if the customer requests something outside of
>Oranges control, then obviously it's the customers problem, not Oranges.
Of course. But if the customer hasn't requested anything from a third
party and Orange gives the customer's money to that third party, then
it is very clearly (in law) Orange's problem. To tell the customer to
recover the stolen money by contacting the thief is an absurd position
to take.
In my view, there should be a similar scheme to the direct debit
guarantee used by the banks: if the network operators choose to set up
a system whereby third parties can "raid the customer's bank account",
they should provide a no-quibble refund policy and claw payments back
when the customer denies any relationship. They should also exercise
due care (as do the banks) in approving companies who are allowed to
operate the direct debit scheme. That the network operators are
negligent in allowing disreputable companies to participate in
reverse-charge SMS is just one of the reasons why they are bound to
lose if a victim should sue.
>If I sound cynical, it's because I have never, ever been stung with these
>reverse charge SMS's, and I've owned a mobile since 1994. Neither have any
>other people I know of. Being in the industry since that time also has shown
>that 999 times out of 1000, someone in the family has requested something
>without the account holders knowledge. Little Tiny Tim gets his kicks while
>mummy is at bingo etc.
I haven't experienced this problem personally, either. But I'm
convinced by the wealth of anecdotal evidence that it happens.
Mike.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2008-03-11, 3:33 pm |
| "Mike" <mike@kempston.net> wrote in message
news:oopct3hf9gk0vci
2599f2j592s9e5a62vh@
news.kempston.net
: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:58:31 -0000, "Simon Ough"
: <simon.orange@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote:
[snip]
: >If I sound cynical, it's because I have never, ever been
: >stung with these reverse charge SMS's, and I've owned a
: >mobile since 1994. Neither have any other people I know
: >of. Being in the industry since that time also has shown
: >that 999 times out of 1000, someone in the family has
: >requested something without the account holders
: >knowledge. Little Tiny Tim gets his kicks while mummy is
: >at bingo etc.
:
: I haven't experienced this problem personally, either.
: But I'm convinced by the wealth of anecdotal evidence
: that it happens.
Well in 10 years of owning a mobile I've only had a reverse charge SMS
once. I wrote to the offending operator (Opera Telecom, who will be well
known here, I'm sure..!) and got £3 back (the text cost me a quid) and
also had £2 back from Orange as well, so I didn't do too badly out of it.
But I still don't understand why nobody except T-Mobile offer
reverse-charge barring.
Ivor
| |
|
| On Mar 11, 7:03=A0pm, "Ivor Jones" <i...@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
> "Mike" <m...@kempston.net> wrote in message
>
> news:oopct3hf9gk0vci
2599f2j592s9e5a62vh@
news.kempston.net
> : On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:58:31 -0000, "Simon Ough"
>
> : <simon.ora...@NO-SPAM-PLEASEbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> : >If I sound cynical, it's because I have never, ever been
> : >stung with these reverse charge SMS's, and I've owned a
> : >mobile since 1994. Neither have any other people I know
> : >of. Being in the industry since that time also has shown
> : >that 999 times out of 1000, someone in the family has
> : >requested something without the account holders
> : >knowledge. Little Tiny Tim gets his kicks while mummy is
> : >at bingo etc.
> :
> : I haven't experienced this problem personally, either.
> : But I'm convinced by the wealth of anecdotal evidence
> : that it happens.
>
> Well in 10 years of owning a mobile I've only had a reverse charge SMS
> once. I wrote to the offending operator (Opera Telecom, who will be well
> known here, I'm sure..!) and got =A33 back (the text cost me a quid) and
> also had =A32 back from Orange as well, so I didn't do too badly out of it=
..
>
> But I still don't understand why nobody except T-Mobile offer
> reverse-charge barring.
>
> Ivor
OK so this is getting more interesting by the day. Today I got a call
from a woman claiming to be from "SMS Customer Help Desk". She said
she had been handed this case by Tanla Mobile Ltd to sort out. She
admitted that the premium rate services that I had received were in
error, and I had in no way signed up for them.
She offered to send me a cheque for the money that was taken out of my
account, saying she would send it to the company "Digital Future" who
actually were the ones who charged me, for them to sign, that they
would send it back to her and she would send it to me.
She suggested I was lucky it was "Digital Future" as many other
companies didnt have a "refund policy", and many people had no
recourse at all.
So who is this company "SMS Customer Helpdesk" ???
Then later I get an eamil from Orange stating the Company was "Auction
Club" on 0844 8845050. Now Tanla have already told me that 81280 is a
number that lots of their clients use, and you cannot tell who is
behind it just from the number. Which suggests that Orange have no
idea who it is, and have no idea who they are letting on to their
network to get to their customers.
I feel like Hercules on the Fifth Labour in the Augean Stables. All I
can smell is bullshit
| |
| Steve Walker 2008-03-26, 10:34 pm |
| Simon Ough wrote:
> "R. Mark Clayton" < nospamclayton@btinte
rnet.com> wrote in message
> news:8YSdndOxj_pRuEj
anZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt
.com...
>
> Why must everyone immediately get onto the "It must be Oranges fault"
> bandwagon?
Because Orange allow third parties to make unauthorised charges against
their customer's account?
| |
| Steve Walker 2008-03-26, 10:34 pm |
| Mike wrote:
> Of course. But if the customer hasn't requested anything from a third
> party and Orange gives the customer's money to that third party, then
> it is very clearly (in law) Orange's problem. To tell the customer to
> recover the stolen money by contacting the thief is an absurd position
> to take.
exactly - it's a disgrace.
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